Passive vs Buffered

[Smash]

Can anyone tell me which is better for a Zuul. I pretty much find that if an amp has a good sound and has an effects loop that works with the zuul, then it is the perfect amp. I know physically what the difference is between buffered and passive, just not the result. School me. I want to know everything, but I also want to know which would be better for the zuul. It goes without saying that I am getting series. Parallel is not for me.

 

[Smash]

So. basically, passive is when it isn't powered. I think the Silver jubilees had a passive loop. So that if you wanted to use effects, you had to have a buffer pedal at the beginning or possibly the end

 

[Smash]

The way I think about it is that passive is just jumping and insertion point and not adding any power to it. You take one point of the amp where you want to cut, and run that to a 1/4 jack, then that other 1/4 jack to the part that it was connected to. Gives a circuit interrupt that can be connected with a cable to be fairly pure as opposed to having a tube or ss buffer strengthen the signal which can color it.. I may be wrong. I know next to nothing.

 

[Faded Abyss]

I always kinda thought that a passive effects loop is the devil, yet I’ve never dealt with the devil, so..

effects loops in general are the devil, but I couldn’t think of a better way to quiet down a screaming amp

 

[scottosan]

Passive loops are also called interrupts. They are a complete tone suck if using pedals and should be avoided. I’ve made them work with rack gear but with pedals they’re horrible

 

[Bash_Man]

Can anyone tell me which is better for a Zuul. I pretty much find that if an amp has a good sound and has an effects loop that works with the zuul, then it is the perfect amp. I know physically what the difference is between buffered and passive, just not the result. School me. I want to know everything, but I also want to know which would be better for the zuul. It goes without saying that I am getting series. Parallel is not for me.

Maybe this will help

 

[Smash]

The problem is not that I don't know how to use a zuul. This is a very cool video, and i did learn about the threshold expander switch, but i have used the zuul for years. I am just about to purchase a new amp, and i can control whether the amp has a buffered or passive loop and was wondering how that would affect the zuul.

Maybe this will help

 

[Bash_Man]

The problem is not that I don't know how to use a zuul. This is a very cool video, and i did learn about the threshold expander switch, but i have used the zuul for years. I am just about to purchase a new amp, and i can control whether the amp has a buffered or passive loop and was wondering how that would affect the zuul.

If I may ask, who's the amp's manufacturer?

 

[Bash_Man]

maybe this will also help
https://mesaboogie.zendesk.com/hc/e...ould-I-use-a-Buffer-in-my-amp-s-effects-loop-

 

[dawnofdreamx97]

Think of a passive loop as literally disconnecting your amps preamp signal before it hits the power section (phase inverter input)

The issue with doing that is usually there are impedance and also "loading" issues that come along with this. A proper fx loop should have a "buffer circuit" to correct these issues and make up for the impedance and high and low freq loss associated with that.

You can do this either with a tube or a solid state buffer / jfet circuit like the metro loop.

Hope that helps!

 

[Ventura]

Can anyone tell me which is better for a Zuul. I pretty much find that if an amp has a good sound and has an effects loop that works with the zuul, then it is the perfect amp. I know physically what the difference is between buffered and passive, just not the result. School me. I want to know everything, but I also want to know which would be better for the zuul. It goes without saying that I am getting series. Parallel is not for me.

Some great info explaining things here:

Page 5 onwards via Voodoo Labs Manual

 

[Smash]

If I may ask, who's the amp's manufacturer

Sorry, wasn't trying to be vague. Ceriatone. Thinking of getting a handwired 2203 from them as a mod platform.

 

[Bash_Man]

Sorry, wasn't trying to be vague. Ceriatone. Thinking of getting a handwired 2203 from them as a mod platform.

No worries my friend.. just trying to help

Is the British Style JCM800 2203 HW the amp you're looking at? if so, check out page 12 of the manual.. has information about the effects loop design, etc..
http://www.ceriatone.com/ceriatone/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/ceriatone-2203-manual.pdf

 

[Donnie B.]

Ceriatone.

Ask the man himself. Nik may even offer both options.

 

[Smash]

He does offer both options. I just kinda wanted people's opinions on both. I also asked Fortin, and they said that either would work, but buffered was preferable, which is strange since the meshuggah amp came with a passive (the actual meshuggah amp for the band had none)

 

[fusedbrain]

Sorry, wasn't trying to be vague. Ceriatone. Thinking of getting a handwired 2203 from them as a mod platform.

Then you don't want either loop.
The Ceriatone "passive" loop is just an insert loop between the treble pot and Master Vol, and his buffered loop sucks donkey balls.
Order the amp without a loop, and put in a Metro loop after the fact.
And ask Nik not to drill the chassis for the loop, or make sure that the holes for the loop are drilled on 1-1/2" centers.

 

[GreatRedDragon]

Then you don't want either loop.
The Ceriatone "passive" loop is just an insert loop between the treble pot and Master Vol, and his buffered loop sucks donkey balls.
Order the amp without a loop, and put in a Metro loop after the fact.
And ask Nik not to drill the chassis for the loop, or make sure that the holes for the loop are drilled on 1-1/2" centers.

How bad is the buffered loop? I have one on order with it.

 

[fusedbrain]

How bad is the buffered loop? I have one on order with it.

I didn't think his buffered loop was very good at all. Noisy with tone suckage.
But...
FX loops and pedal boards and signal paths are complicated things...
I think Bogner's loops suck too, so what the hell do I know
The Friedman and Metro loops sound the most transparent to me.
The Ceriatone loop may work just fine for you, depending on what you are trying to do, and what pedals you put in the loop.
Don't sweat it. If it ends up not playing nice with YOUR gear, then it's a cheap fix to swap in a Metro loop.

 

[Smash]

I didn't think his buffered loop was very good at all. Noisy with tone suckage.
But...
FX loops and pedal boards and signal paths are complicated things...
I think Bogner's loops suck too, so what the hell do I know
The Friedman and Metro loops sound the most transparent to me.
The Ceriatone loop may work just fine for you, depending on what you are trying to do, and what pedals you put in the loop.
Don't sweat it. If it ends up not playing nice with YOUR gear, then it's a cheap fix to swap in a Metro loop.

I agree with you on the bogner loop. If it was a serial loop, I would have kept the twin jet. Badass amp

 

[GreatRedDragon]

I didn't think his buffered loop was very good at all. Noisy with tone suckage.
But...
FX loops and pedal boards and signal paths are complicated things...
I think Bogner's loops suck too, so what the hell do I know
The Friedman and Metro loops sound the most transparent to me.
The Ceriatone loop may work just fine for you, depending on what you are trying to do, and what pedals you put in the loop.
Don't sweat it. If it ends up not playing nice with YOUR gear, then it's a cheap fix to swap in a Metro loop.

Well I don't have much planned for the loop. I'm going to be running into a reactive load and into my interface so pretty much anything I would use in the loop I'll just use a plugin for. The loop is just a nice-to-have in case I ever take the amp out of the house, maybe I'll try some effects in there but I don't really plan on it. I'll just be a little irked if I paid 75 extra bucks for something that sucks.