Pay to play...

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SFW

SFW

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My band took a two and a half year hiatus… We got back together about a year ago now. Before we went on break, we could play at any club anytime we wanted to. We had a sure draw and our crowd kills the bar. I’ve had club owners tell me that our people float their bar when we play.

Fast forward to now… Several of the clubs that we use to play are no longer around. The ones that have left have moved into having bands pre-sell tickets for shows. Then based on the number of tickets that you sell, you get placed in a line for time. I.e. the band that sells the most tickets gets to pick their time slot.

We’ve moved away from clubs catering to good bands to clubs catering to bands with lots of friends. When the hell did this happen?!!? I’ve also noticed that door percentages have dropped significantly. We used to make 80% of door. Now we’re lucky to make 20% of the door. Houston is a large city, and gas hasn’t exactly been cheap lately. We used to be ok with breaking even and everyone getting enough money to pay for their gas to the show. Lately we can’t even make that happen.

I know that I’m probably not telling you guys anything new here… It just makes me wonder how much longer I will be able to keep this up. I love playing live, but it’s becoming more of a pain in the ass than I really want to deal with…

Just bitching…
 
Brother I hear u loud n clear same bullshit exactly up here in Pennsylvania. And surrounding states. Pay to play your lucky to sell enuff merch to break even.Ya love music but this crap is sucking the life right out of it.
 
Its EVERYWHERE now.....no one respects good music just bands with lots of friends.

Where I am its even worse because you can play the same club for the same promoter, sell tons of tickets religiously and they will still give you the run around when you ask for a real show.

I understand promoters are taking hits too...But the ones we deal with do not do their job.

They rent a club, find local bands and say here you go heres 100 tickets go sell them.

No radio ads, no fliers, no promotion whatsoever.

We are debating renting the club ourselves and cutting out the weak middle man.
 
it's a crazy world. i've driven hours to a gig, lugged my gear, sold tickets, played for free, not even enough a dime to cover TOLLS , let alone gas or even a buck to perform. But having to pay to play , (selling tickets) with nothing in return, is wacky. I do it all the time.
 
This: "We are debating renting the club ourselves and cutting out the weak middle man."

Pay to play as needed for promotion. :rock:
 
zee1usa":27b0df5i said:
This: "We are debating renting the club ourselves and cutting out the weak middle man."

Pay to play as needed for promotion. :rock:
Click to expand...

Yea I guess its worth it if your garunteed a good show. I would buy my own tix that I couldnt sell.

But the guys around here are shady, will tell you they will hook you up.

Wait and see how much money they can take you for and never give you a good show.

The problem I see doing it ourselves is actually paying the good drawing bigger bands to play.

For the local bullcrap that usually is offered it would be well worth it.
 
Yeah, welcome to 15 years ago. Pay to play is nothing new in So Cal.
 
Most clubs up here want you to promote and sell tickets, which is fine...some give good shows to locals. I think some of those percentages are lame...but some are decent.

I know though in LA, some places you buy the tickets outright...You Book the show, pay the club $500 for 50 tickets at $10 each, then you have to get rid of them to break even. That system is harsh. That douchbag promoter used to do that at Millwakee Metalfest.
 
I just quit playing in a pop cover band and i made $50-$100 per gig. That's all people want to hear. Original bands in Milwaukee struggle to get $100 per show.
 
this is as an awesome article on the subject if you can spare 5 minutes to read it

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78468650/La-Club-Owners

"
What if I told the wine bar owner that I have a greatband and we are going to play at my house. I need someone to provide and pour wine while we play. I can’t pay much, just $75 and you must bring at least25 people who are willing to pay a $10 cover charge at the door. Now wouldn’t they look at you like you are crazy?
"Why would I do that"
they would ask? Well because it’s great exposure for you and your wine bar.
"
 
The situation here is probably the same as everywhere else.

A bar i know pays very little for musicians to host jam nights, and change them out often.

They want to be known for good live music, and it's just not happening because they expect instant gratification. They expect to open a bar, put on some music and BAM!

I have told them they need to contract a house band that come rain or shine will play on a set day every week. They need to know 60 songs up front, and add a few more every week to keep it interesting. They also need to make their stage partially available should anybody want to jam. And only the ones that they know can bring it.

They will not make their money to begin with, but within 6 months it will be known all over town that on said day, you can go and watch a bitching live band. And then the people will come.

The real issue is that owners are expecting to see a decent ROI within 3 months. A quick buck. But it just doesn't work like that.
 
Bob Savage":r8am9bvm said:
Yeah, welcome to 15 years ago. Pay to play is nothing new in So Cal.
Click to expand...

It hasn't hit by me yet, but its not like the local bars are playing well. $300 is the standard rate for a band. What I am seeing more and more is bands of no more than 4. Even bands that had more than 4, if one leaves they don't replace them.
 
No. Never have, never will.

Edit: I forgot. My current band actually did do this about a year ago and the promoter came this close to getting his teeth knocked out when he asked my singer and myself for more cash right as we were walking up the stairs to the stage. Big show, big crowd and he has the balls to do that. :gethim:

Never again.
 
Badronald":1cbf5929 said:
No. Never have, never will.

Edit: I forgot. My current band actually did do this about a year ago and the promoter came this close to getting his teeth knocked out when he asked my singer and myself for more cash right as we were walking up the stairs to the stage. Big show, big crowd and he has the balls to do that. :gethim:

Never again.
Click to expand...

Im guessing you guys have a pretty good following?

I think this topic related more to new bands trying to get a foot in the door.
 
university81":3nnqp35b said:
this is as an awesome article on the subject if you can spare 5 minutes to read it

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78468650/La-Club-Owners

"
What if I told the wine bar owner that I have a greatband and we are going to play at my house. I need someone to provide and pour wine while we play. I can’t pay much, just $75 and you must bring at least25 people who are willing to pay a $10 cover charge at the door. Now wouldn’t they look at you like you are crazy?
"Why would I do that"
they would ask? Well because it’s great exposure for you and your wine bar.
"
Click to expand...

A good read and sound logic. As the author points out, there will be little change because the club owners control who plays and just like union strikes, there's always someone desperate and willing to cross...
 
The pay to play model has been going on in LA for almost 30 years I understand. My last cover band played for almost three years straight, 5 sets a night, 5 nights a week, 50 weeks a year. Shortly after 1983 (around 85 I guess) a large chunk of clubs now have the band pay $100-150 up front to play. If they sell enough tickets to their friends, they get that money back.

A large part of it is simply crappy bands. I wouldn't pay a cover charge of 10 cents to see a lot of bands, but they have friends who cheer them on and drink.

This has spurred club owners to pursue this "pay for play" model. It's no longer based solely on talent. I couldn't be in a band with that type of club owner mentality.
 
Scumback Speakers":13l0lwro said:
The pay to play model has been going on in LA for almost 30 years I understand. My last cover band played for almost three years straight, 5 sets a night, 5 nights a week, 50 weeks a year. Shortly after 1983 (around 85 I guess) a large chunk of clubs now have the band pay $100-150 up front to play. If they sell enough tickets to their friends, they get that money back.

A large part of it is simply crappy bands. I wouldn't pay a cover charge of 10 cents to see a lot of bands, but they have friends who cheer them on and drink.

This has spurred club owners to pursue this "pay for play" model. It's no longer based solely on talent. I couldn't be in a band with that type of club owner mentality.
Click to expand...

100% agreed. And I'll add:

The reason that a "Original Music Scene" disappears is a multi-stage vicious cycle.

Bands aren't screened. Horrible newbie bands, hungry to play on stage, are willing to pre-sell tickets a handful of friends. The club owners want quick cash, and let them play shows. So the local crowd now expects to pay $10 at the door to see horrible bands, and stops coming. So now the only audience is your friends, who have "paid" to let you "play.

New Jersey is done and dead. The last few remaining clubs that DIDN'T make your pay to play have changed over (Mexicali in Teaneck), and the rest have closed their doors (Whiskey Bar in Hoboken no longer has midweek original bands, Court Tavern in NB is gone).

If you want to play original music in NJ, you'd better be 18 and playing at a VFW at a punk show. Other than that, you have zero options.

I really have no idea what to do at this point with my musical "career".
 
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