Pay to play...

[Rayneman]

Been this way for years in the Cleveland area, or it was the last time I checked, lol. This has all but shut down my originals band...we're just getting to old to hawk tickets to friends and family to come see us play with a bunch of kids in death metal bands. I have seen bands buy ALL their tickets to get the "headlining" spot, only to play to a completely empty floor and a few people sitting at the bar.

I suppose it works for bands who do it full time and really do have a dedicated following (or who are constantly buying their own tix), but for the majority of bands, the only people who benefit are the bars/"promoters."

So, back to playing cover tunes...not nearly as fulfilling as playing your own music, but you get time to set up, 4 hours of play time and at the end, they give YOU money. Of course, that brings up a whole new discussion about bar owners and cover bands and how they interact...yikes.

 

[Meathead]

Lately I'm being asked to drive 2 hours to make a $100...I'm saying forget it. Times are getting tough.


Listen to what has been on hit/pop radio for the last 5 years. It's all keyboard programmed music with very little or no musicians on it, except for a singer/rapper.
Things have changed like I've never seen for musicians. Now add a very bad economy which they say is still getting worse.
I wouldn't recommend being a musician to anyone now to make decent money.
Do it as a hobby on the side of a day job, do it because you love it.

 

[mysticaxe]

In Boston, about 5 of the prime "foot in the door" non-pay to play places have closed over the last two years. Add that to the abundance of screaming death metal bands that we get booked with, and its a tough road...

At my age, I can't sell tickets to friends without having a good idea when we go on stage (most of them have to deal with sitters).

 

[Scumback Speakers]

If you can't make $100 per man per gig (after expenses) I really don't know what the incentive is. One of my buddies has told me this for years. You have three or four 2-3 hour rehearsals with the band, then they get $100 each, sometimes $200 if they're lucky.

The problem is that they only wind up playing once, maybe twice per month.

As near as I can tell, after rehearsal time, gas, etc, they have to be making less than minimum wage doing gigs.

I used to make $60 per night playing guitar in the early 80's (5 man band, soundman, typical week's pay was from $1500-2100 per week) in a cover band.

I don't think it's gone up much, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[maddnotez]

At my age, I can't sell tickets to friends without having a good idea when we go on stage (most of them have to deal with sitters).

Really good point....When you Pay to Play you will not know your time slot until all the bands show up and the promoter counts all his money and see who has sold the most tix.

I understand most people want to come see their friends and leave. I think that is a huge problem.

It has happened on both sides for us. We always tell our friends to stay for the other bands.

There is nothing like having 100 people at a show, and then after the first band plays 75 of them leave.

 

[mysticaxe]

At my age, I can't sell tickets to friends without having a good idea when we go on stage (most of them have to deal with sitters).

Really good point....When you Pay to Play you will not know your time slot until all the bands show up and the promoter counts all his money and see who has sold the most tix.

I understand most people want to come see their friends and leave. I think that is a huge problem.

It has happened on both sides for us. We always tell our friends to stay for the other bands.

There is nothing like having 100 people at a show, and then after the first band plays 75 of them leave.

The room emptying happens all the time around here, pay to play or not. People who show up for one band bail before the next band has even set up! Yep, in the 10-15 minutes to switch bands out, they are gone. There is no "scene" in Boston anymore (that I've found).

If I think that the other bands playing around us are cool, I'll try to get people to show up early/stay longer, but I have to be a little careful - I don't want to be the guy who says "Check the next band out, they rock" and hear 120 db of detuned muddy chugging with cookie monster gargling satanic mouthwash over the top of it before breaking into a screaming chorus about how bad the mouthwash burns! You do that once or twice, and your friends will never trust you again...

 

[ACShreds]

Well its the fact that live music isn't the popular thing anymore. Its all club mix stuff now. People go out to clubs and dance while listening to dubstep and remixed pop songs. In the early 2000's, before todays electronic craze, there were always tons of shows going on in dallas and every band had chance to play. They may not have gotten much money out of it if they got any at all but they definitely didnt have to pre sale every night.

 

[rlord1974]

I do agree the live music scene has gone to shit since the 90's with the advent of CRAP music getting all of the airtime on the radio and the plethora of live music clubs going under. However, I would never pay to play live. That's absolutely ridiculous and I can't see why anyone would ever do it (outside of a showcase for industry exec's). Who benefits from this? You and your band?! I don't think so. Just the club owner that is getting entertainment and patrons (i.e., the bands friends and fans) for free.

When you gig, you should be getting compensated not only for your time and costs associated with travelling, loading in, soundchecking, playing, and loading out at that particular gig, but also a small amount to recognize the fact that you had to REHEARSE in order to be able to play in the first place!

Maybe I'm speaking in "ideals" right now but, thankfully, I have NEVER paid to play with the exception of when I have donated my time for a fundraiser, etc.

If you really can't get a decent "gigging" paycheck in your area, get together with a few other bands in the area that have a decent following, rent a hall, organize your own night of live music, sell tickets and split the proceeds. Not only will you likely put some dough in your pocket, but you will also be screwing over those very club owners that ask you to pay to play at their clubs. More people at your event means less people at their club. Do this enough times and build up enough hype around your events, and eventually the club owners will have to start paying your band and other bands to get back in their clubs and bring the fans with you. If you don't make money at your event?...Oh well, you're no worse off than you were before and at least you gigged on your own terms!

My $0.02.

 

[kasperjensen]

Lately I'm being asked to drive 2 hours to make a $100...I'm saying forget it. Times are getting tough.


Listen to what has been on hit/pop radio for the last 5 years. It's all keyboard programmed music with very little or no musicians on it, except for a singer/rapper.
Things have changed like I've never seen for musicians. Now add a very bad economy which they say is still getting worse.
I wouldn't recommend being a musician to anyone now to make decent money.
Do it as a hobby on the side of a day job, do it because you love it.

I have a band that plays that music where I have programmed the backing tracks, and then add a live band on top.
It allowed us to command a much higher price because we sound somewhat fresh.

The modern pop lends itself very well to live entertainment.

 

[nwright]

Around here the only pay to play scenarios we see are for national acts at all ages venues who come through on tour and locals open. In the shows we've done the ticket thing for, it's been an easy sell because the nationals have a good draw.

My band is a metal band, and I have a feeling our reach is probably a younger audience, and our band might be a little younger as well.

In terms of bars/clubs, We've found that lately we are making MORE money than ever. Granted, it's not a lot to most cover bands, but it's getting better. Most bars here will do 100% of the door to the bands after soundman gets his cut, or fixed guarantees. One place will do 20% of bar sales after a fixed amount to the sound guy (which is only 100 bucks). we played the night of a big snow/ice storm at that place and still got paid 350 (we were billed/booked as headliner). We played a 45 minute set on a 4 band bill.

At the places where we have a good draw, we can make 800 for an hour set (on a 3 to 4 band bill).

For what we do, though, all ages shows or at least 18+ nets us better merch sales.

But we've established ourselves well enough in our area that the band has been self sustaining since 2006. The only thing that costs us anything is gear and it's upkeep.

Everything else we do (stage backdrops/scrims, lights, CD's, merch, etc.) is all paid through our band money or what endorsements we've gotten.

 

[Soundguy213]

Shit, i remember Lamours in Brooklyn and a few spots in Manhattan that are closed now used to make the line up for you. There was no "sell more tickets, pick your spot" thing going on. They used to make the band actually buy a number of the tickets outright, and then you could sell them to friends or whoever for whatever price you want. It was such bullshit. You could be the very first band of the night, have to buy like 150 tickets, and that was the deal. Most of the bands didn't know that many people and wound up trying to sell the tickets at the door, and the bouncers would kick them out saying they couldn't do that.

The ones that did sell all of them and even had more people coming in the door saying their name didn't even get a cut of the door. they just told you to be happy you could play the show and get the fuck lost. i remember a few instances in the Jersey area and Conn etc, but they weren't as frequent.

Music scene here in NYC has been terrible since the very late 90's. Especially if you were in a hardcore or death metal type band.

 

[mightywarlock]

We have a strict rule in my band that we will Never do Pay to play, and we have had no issues playing shows several times a month for the last 5 years now.
We've been asked a lot of times to play big shows with national acts, but then get asked to sell fix here in L.A., and have turned them down afterwards, IF they did not just let us play without doing it. It's just the rule in the band. No one wants to do it, no one feels comfortable doing it, and we do not feel it is the bands responsibility, like the article states.
I can't force anyone to go out on a Saturday night. They either want to or not. not going to beg anyone to come to a show. I can make flyers, post it, advertise it, but then let things fall where they will. We'll either have a few people show, or a lot. and sometimes the places have their own following, and they, in turn have discovered a new band to tell their friends about.

Pay to play does not get you more promotion, only makes your friends pay to see your band play.

We refuse, and most of the times, we play anyways.

 

[Meathead]

Lately I'm being asked to drive 2 hours to make a $100...I'm saying forget it. Times are getting tough.


Listen to what has been on hit/pop radio for the last 5 years. It's all keyboard programmed music with very little or no musicians on it, except for a singer/rapper.
Things have changed like I've never seen for musicians. Now add a very bad economy which they say is still getting worse.
I wouldn't recommend being a musician to anyone now to make decent money.
Do it as a hobby on the side of a day job, do it because you love it.

I have a band that plays that music where I have programmed the backing tracks, and then add a live band on top.
It allowed us to command a much higher price because we sound somewhat fresh.

The modern pop lends itself very well to live entertainment.

Ya, we do that to with backing tracks for the new pop songs, but not for the whole night.
We are up to date (Lady Gaga, Katy Perry...lots of up-to-date hit radio music) and mix it up with hard rock (Queen, Bon Jovi, Van Halen, Def Leppard, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC...) so the the guys and girls are happy at the same time.
We do the up-to-date pop music much heavier than the original though. Picture Lady Gaga with distortion, it's much better.

 

[Meathead]

pay to play = original bands
get payed to play = cover bands

 

[LP Freak]

pay to play = original bands
get payed to play = cover bands

Tribute bands = rake in the dough

 

[Meathead]

pay to play = original bands
get payed to play = cover bands

Tribute bands = rake in the dough

Ya, I did sound for a popular Beatles tribute band years ago where each band member (4) walked away with over $1000 per gig quite regularly.

We should all be in a tribute band.

 

[kasperjensen]

pay to play = original bands
get payed to play = cover bands

Tribute bands = rake in the dough

Ya, I did sound for a popular Beatles tribute band years ago where each band member (4) walked away with over $1000 per gig quite regularly.

We should all be in a tribute band.

 

[King Guitar]

man you guys are doing something wrong, my original disco band pulls in $5K a night and we are a trio. 6 nights a week and on the 7th day we count money. WTF kind of musicians are you.

 

[Zachman]

pay to play = original bands
get payed to play = cover bands

Tribute bands = rake in the dough

Gotta agree there

 

['63-Strat]

this is as an awesome article on the subject if you can spare 5 minutes to read it

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78468650/La-Club-Owners

"
What if I told the wine bar owner that I have a greatband and we are going to play at my house. I need someone to provide and pour wine while we play. I can’t pay much, just $75 and you must bring at least25 people who are willing to pay a $10 cover charge at the door. Now wouldn’t they look at you like you are crazy?
"Why would I do that"
they would ask? Well because it’s great exposure for you and your wine bar.
"

While this is all well and good, and has been "shared" by many of my l.a. musician friends on facebook ad nauseum, the reality is that it won't work. You're not going to get EVERY single band to boycott pay to play in l.a. and so it will continue. Idealistic musician pipedream? Yep.

The clubs don't care. They are only in it to make $$$ and don't give a shit about your "art." There will always be a bunch of bands that are willing to do this just so they can play on the sunset strip (OMG!). As long as they can bring lots of their friends, the clubs do not care that the bands suck. Period.