Question: Egnater M4 vs Randall RM4? Prices? Tone?

[rsm]

What are the main differences in the M4 vs RM4? Links to info appreciated, and what are the average new/used prices for these?

If anyone has Vox module, either brand, how accurate does it sound?

My quest for vintage Vox AC30 and TopBoost tone continues! I can't convince myself to pay $1800 or more for an AC30 with real Celestion Alnico blues when its made in China. The real vintage, and no longer made, "Made in England" stuff is outta my justification price range, but if this ToneLab LE doesn't work its an M4 / RM4 with a Vox module or a new Made in China Vox AC30.

Any other options I may have missed? (No, not an Axe-Fx, been there; it worked great but that's tough to justify for the handful of Vox tones I was using it for. Maybe a Standard will be in my future?) Preamps or combos are the models I'm considering as options.

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Obvious main difference is the M4 can use either dual or single channel modules. Approx cost for RM4 new = $650. I picked up mine for $375 used. Average used cost of RM4 $400-$450. M4 brand new = $500. M4 has no loops. Rm4 has parallel and series. Dual modules = $400 new, $325-$360 average used. Randall's are approx $210 new, $120-$150 used. The sig series mods ala Lynch and Hamster are $260 new, $200-$225 used.

As for tone I own a VX and it is extremely similar to the real deal. As I mentioned previously I've pitted it against a CC30 with the Chinese blues and it is close enough for me. I find the CC a bit abrasive in the top end. Took my buddy forever to dial out the shrillness.

Obvious upside is you have 3 more slots in either case to diversify your tone. I have a BMAN, EG5, and Treadplate. More en route. Obvious downside is the module chasing. It's like Pokemon.

 

[Audioholic]

Randalls Topboost doesn't really sound like a Vox out of teh Box imo. However you can get it modded to get much closer and sound great! Randall also has the Super V which is much much closer.

Egnater - possibility to take advantage of dual channel modules if its a newer M4 not a single channel old one. More money to fill the slots,

Randall Rm4 - Takes single channel modules, or uses the first channel of Egnater Dual modules. Cheaper to acquire single channel modules from randall, though most of them are geared towards gain, but have more variety in the lineup.

 

[rsm]

Obvious main difference is the M4 can use either dual or single channel modules. Approx cost for RM4 new = $650. I picked up mine for $375 used. Average used cost of RM4 $400-$450. M4 brand new = $500. M4 has no loops. Rm4 has parallel and series. Dual modules = $400 new, $325-$360 average used. Randall's are approx $210 new, $120-$150 used. The sig series mods ala Lynch and Hamster are $260 new, $200-$225 used.

As for tone I own a VX and it is extremely similar to the real deal. As I mentioned previously I've pitted it against a CC30 with the Chinese blues and it is close enough for me. I find the CC a bit abrasive in the top end. Took my buddy forever to dial out the shrillness.

Obvious upside is you have 3 more slots in either case to diversify your tone. I have a BMAN, EG5, and Treadplate. More en route. Obvious downside is the module chasing. It's like Pokemon.

chode7, thanks for the detailed info. I'd probably go with the VX and T/D, and the Clean and maybe TopBoost from Randall. The prices add up to less than a Chox (Chinese Vox), but I've got to convince myself that something other than a Vox will get me close enough? I have the exact concern with the Chox, how good is it really? How authentic? Will a CC2 with Wharfdales, get that at the cheapest price, and replace with real set of English alnico blues, be better?

Thanks for this info, again. This helps alot in understanding the options.

 

[rsm]

Randalls Topboost doesn't really sound like a Vox out of teh Box imo. However you can get it modded to get much closer and sound great! Randall also has the Super V which is much much closer.

Egnater - possibility to take advantage of dual channel modules if its a newer M4 not a single channel old one. More money to fill the slots,

Randall Rm4 - Takes single channel modules, or uses the first channel of Egnater Dual modules. Cheaper to acquire single channel modules from randall, though most of them are geared towards gain, but have more variety in the lineup.

Hmm, that's about what I'm finding. Much of the new gear seems to be geared toward modern, hi-gain tone. The dual channel M4 is sounding like a viable option, starting with the VX module. If this works, I'd be content for awhile with three expansion options if needed. Thanks for the info!

 

[Audioholic]

What cab and power amp are you planning on runnig this rig with?

 

[Audioholic]

Randalls Topboost doesn't really sound like a Vox out of teh Box imo. However you can get it modded to get much closer and sound great! Randall also has the Super V which is much much closer.

Egnater - possibility to take advantage of dual channel modules if its a newer M4 not a single channel old one. More money to fill the slots,

Randall Rm4 - Takes single channel modules, or uses the first channel of Egnater Dual modules. Cheaper to acquire single channel modules from randall, though most of them are geared towards gain, but have more variety in the lineup.

Hmm, that's about what I'm finding. Much of the new gear seems to be geared toward modern, hi-gain tone. The dual channel M4 is sounding like a viable option, starting with the VX module. If this works, I'd be content for awhile with three expansion options if needed. Thanks for the info!

Egnater peeps seem to really love the VX. In terms of randall equivalents, I would look to the super V, or have them make a single channel Vox for you. Randall has the Plexi, JTM, Tweed, Super V, Blackface and Deluxe, all which have a bit less gain on tap, but I think where randal excells is the higher gain modules, not that these are any less then desirable, not to mention you can have it professionally modded by the likes of Dave Friedman who is on this board, and can change it up for you and you will still probally pay less then a new single eggie.

If you can, go dual M4, you can use both randall singles, and eggie duals in there, you can pick from both camps man.

on a side note, here is a quick clip I did just experiementing with my RM4 going into the Axe FX for and using the cab sim. Light gain backround is my DF modded topboost. Lead is KH2, second part of the clip is a modded SL+. Just a quick experiment using Impulse responces, but perhaps will give just an idea of the randall modded topboost

 

[rsm]

What cab and power amp are you planning on runnig this rig with?

Now for something completely different, this is tough to compare to amp/cab combinations:

I'm using a Bose L1 system. FWIW, it sounds great with guitar, bass and keyboards. for guitar its a question of getting the right preamp/modeler/effects. After some effort, I was able to get good tones from my Axe-Fx Ultra with it, but as I said in another post, I wasn't really using much else in the Ultra.

The Bose L1 set-up I have is near FRFR, I can get it tight/boomy-bottom (Well, down to 40 Hz anyway) and screaming icepick trebly, and everything in between frequency wise. The mids are a bit strong, but not like the original system, I have the Model II with two of the bass modules which help the bottom. I have the T1 which is like a combination preamp, line mixer, but its factory presets are designed for specific instruments not guitar->amp->cab model per se. (It has factory designed presets for many Rickenbackers, which are my fav and primary guitars).

I've more work to do using my Vox ToneLab LE (haven't had much time due to family and work since it arrived). I spent about two hours this past Friday night with the ToneLab, and I have 5 presets with just amp/cab settings that are real close. A bit more tweaking, and testing including in the headphones to compare what's direct vs what's coming from the Bose. I also have an EH English Muff'n on the way (just ordered today).

I preparing for the next step should these not meet my expectations, and wanted to understand the M4 / RM4 system, and what people thought of the Vox modules, and the Chox options that seem to be all that are available new.

 

[aeroic]

Remember that Dave Friedman of Racksystems mods any module to your taste. He did a lot of work with George Lynch getting his tones tailored to him for his signature series stuff. I've sent a few modules his way to have modded, and I know that others on this board have done the same with staggering results!

Eric

 

[rsm]

Remember that Dave Friedman of Racksystems mods any module to your taste. He did a lot of work with George Lynch getting his tones tailored to him for his signature series stuff. I've sent a few modules his way to have modded, and I know that others on this board have done the same with staggering results!

Eric

Eric,
Thanks for the info. It sounds like this is quite common, having the modules modded by Dave, I'm very impressed by the work I've seen here and elsewhere. What is the ballpark price for a module mod? Just getting this all in perspective as I've never even seen one of these M4 / RM4 and have only heard a few clips. Need to figure if, and when, I'd be able to swing one of these. I'm leaning toward the M4 with a stock VX module to start, probably nothing else at first - try to get in at the lowest entry point to see how close I can get.

Also, when buying used, how can you tell if the M4 is a Dual Channel version?

Richard

 

[aeroic]

Remember that Dave Friedman of Racksystems mods any module to your taste. He did a lot of work with George Lynch getting his tones tailored to him for his signature series stuff. I've sent a few modules his way to have modded, and I know that others on this board have done the same with staggering results!

Eric

Eric,
Thanks for the info. It sounds like this is quite common, having the modules modded by Dave, I'm very impressed by the work I've seen here and elsewhere. What is the ballpark price for a module mod? Just getting this all in perspective as I've never even seen one of these M4 / RM4 and have only heard a few clips. Need to figure if, and when, I'd be able to swing one of these. I'm leaning toward the M4 with a stock VX module to start, probably nothing else at first - try to get in at the lowest entry point to see how close I can get.

Also, when buying used, how can you tell if the M4 is a Dual Channel version?

Richard

His standard mods on modules is around $100. If you do a "custom" one...something he does as a one off, it could be a bit more than that...like $125-150.

Honestly man...I'd get the M4 so you have at least the OPTION of running either Egnater dual channel modules or Randall / Egnater single channel modules. The VX is a killer preamp module man! I love it!

It's quite easy to tell the Duals vs Singles. The Duals have 2 Gain knobs and 2 Module volume knobs. Those knobs are physicall smaller than the bass / mids / treble knobs.

Eric

 

[Anonymous]

chode7, thanks for the detailed info. I'd probably go with the VX and T/D, and the Clean and maybe TopBoost from Randall. The prices add up to less than a Chox (Chinese Vox), but I've got to convince myself that something other than a Vox will get me close enough? I have the exact concern with the Chox, how good is it really? How authentic? Will a CC2 with Wharfdales, get that at the cheapest price, and replace with real set of English alnico blues, be better?

Thanks for this info, again. This helps alot in understanding the options.

My pleasure. I know in my buddy's case a lot of his decision was based around aesthetics. The Chox combo or Vox's in general have the "vintage" look. The Egnater modules are great for the lower gain tones. Specifically the BMAN. That thing is my workhorse and the benchmark for the rest of my system. T/D is great for pristine to slight breakup. I will be getting the COD to round out my M4. COD is the Egnater take on the Dumble thing. Great for single coil guitars and neck pickup work. Here is a clip courtesy of Eric.

Also check out some of John's work. He has clips of both ends of the VX as well as most of the low gain mods which sound pretty nice.

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/defaul ... tent=music

Enjoy!

If you want to get a look at the M4 and RM4 check out the link in my sig. I'm no photographer mind you.

 

[rsm]

chode7, thanks for the clip links. sounds great so far, still listening to the first one. I've checked out your gear pics before, did so again. thanks!

Eric, thanks for the info. I'm leaning toward the M4 with a VX module stock. There's a local dealer here in Atlanta, their website is down. Need to see what's available out there. If an empty M4 is $500 new, and a VX new is $400...

 

[Audioholic]

Its too bad you still don't have your Axe FX. you could run that analog pre into your axe fx and just use the cab sims, and load in some custom ones, probally would Kill through your bose direct rig.

The only reason I didn't scooop up a dual M4 was because at the time, there was a significant wait. Since I think that is all but gone, definetally makes sence to go that route.

 

[rsm]

OK, I'm getting a used RM4. Should arrive this week.

Audioholic, you mentioned a Super V module. I don't see this on the Randall site or the Egnater site, what is it and where can I find it?

I'll have a few modules to start with, and may look to buy or trade other single channel Randall modules once I see how (if) it works with my Bose L1.

Anyone try running an M4 or RM4 to FOH, or through a solid state power amp? I'm concerned about the lack of a tube power amp and what it will do to the tone of the RM4?

 

[jkdsteve]

SuperV is a Lynch signature module:

http://www.randallamplifiers.com/produc ... /index.asp

 

[Anonymous]

Congrats and welcome to the club. Hope it works out for you. One thing to keep in mind about the Randall stuff that I neglected to mention is that they have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more gain on tap. Keep this in mind when you dial them in. You may want to consider a JTM for Voxy tones. My DLX is nice for a clean with slight breakup as well. One important piece of advice that Jeff from Egnater gave to us is to tweak with you ears and not your eyes. Also if you're a bargain hunter you may want to troll around http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewforum.php?f=12 which is the classified section of the MTS board at grailtone if you aren't already. Many a good deal to be had. Good luck and congrats again.