Question regarding true bypass as it relates to Wah pedals

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thegame

thegame

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Do all Wah pedals inherently mess with the bypassed tone? I've had the Dunlop Petrucci one and also tested a plain old 90's Dunlop Cry Baby (presumably the gcb95) and found they both just mangled my tone when bypassed, and much more than any other type of pedal. I'm not even sure the Petrucci one is true bypass or not as the Dunlop literature says "Bypass Configuration: True Hardwire". I'm inclined to take that as no. I've also found that true bypass operation in other types of pedals can be largely transparent or still display significant tone suck. Results are all over the place. So now I'm researching some other kinds of Wahs, such as RMC which advertise true bypass, therefore I'm hopeful there's something that has a much better bypassed tone than what I've experienced so far.
 
I wish there was a standard for what constituted True Bypass. It's a crap shoot. It used to mean a mechanical bypass in which the signal was just passed straight through, but I think that's been twisted by some builders to include soft bypass methods. I use an RJM Effect Gizmo to switch my pedals and rack effects in and out. I think it's relay-based, but it's transparent. That doesn't answer your question, but it's what I've used to ensure that my Wah and other pedals are truly out of the chain, regardless of how the builder implemented their bypass. FWIW.
 
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thegame said:
Do all Wah pedals inherently mess with the bypassed tone? I've had the Dunlop Petrucci one and also tested a plain old 90's Dunlop Cry Baby (presumably the gcb95) and found they both just mangled my tone when bypassed, and much more than any other type of pedal. I'm not even sure the Petrucci one is true bypass or not as the Dunlop literature says "Bypass Configuration: True Hardwire". I'm inclined to take that as no. I've also found that true bypass operation in other types of pedals can be largely transparent or still display significant tone suck. Results are all over the place. So now I'm researching some other kinds of Wahs, such as RMC which advertise true bypass, therefore I'm hopeful there's something that has a much better bypassed tone than what I've experienced so far.
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Vintage Wah models will alter the tone, even when off, to various degrees depending on the model, but that change is expected as it is part of that tone people are looking for. There are other devices that color the tone like this such as an echoplex. People want it because a lot of people are copying a rig to copy a tone. Installing TB in a Wah is actually extremely simple and is often done by first-timers looking to get into modding something. YouTube videos on them out there. So that's another reason why they don't change them to TB. Also, a Wah being first in a chain makes it a big candidate for the buffer pedal which you will need when you use longer lengths of cable. If you use a TB Wah and start to get into longer cables you will lose dB and tone. You will need a buffer or a DI box.
 
BatmansRigTalk said:
There are other devices that color the tone like this such as an echoplex.
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Which is why there's at least a dozen pedals on the market that claim to
do what an echoplex does to your signal when it's off.
 
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I dunno about the newer wahs, but my old Thomas Organs are modded with a switch that is legit hardwire true bypass. It's easy to do. Man they sounded awful when bypassed before the mod.

The new CAE wah had a great bypass when I had it, from what I recall. The new Vox hardwired wah also is mechanical true bypass as well; pretty sure.
 
Update, got a Fulltone Clyde Deluxe. No tone suck, particularly when running it at 18V. Very musical, sweet wah pedal. Blows the Dunlops away.

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thegame said:
Update, got a Fulltone Clyde Deluxe. No tone suck, particularly when running it at 18V. Very musical, sweet wah pedal. Blows the Dunlops away.

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You might wanna try the LD-3 first, even before the wah. I tried it once and was sold on it. Last pedalboard I had for the studio had a LD-1 first and the LD-3 last in the chain. It was perfect.
You might hate it. But hey, if you're not loosing money or hurting yourself, why not?
 
fearhk213 said:
Hey man. Do you have a preference between the wah's 3 different modes?
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Sort of. I spend equal time between the Wacked (the deepest sounding mode) and Jimi modes. Shaft mode is too bright for gainy tones but great for clean funk playing.
 
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SBlue said:
You might wanna try the LD-3 first, even before the wah. I tried it once and was sold on it. Last pedalboard I had for the studio had a LD-1 first and the LD-3 last in the chain. It was perfect.
You might hate it. But hey, if you're not loosing money or hurting yourself, why not?
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Cool, I’ll give it a go. I did try the wah at the very end of the pictured signal chain and it wasn’t as good. Though that Cali76 has an unbypassable buffer so probably too much buffering pre-wah in that case. I will try guitar - ld3 - wah - amp next time for sure. Cornish makes the best sounding buffers, no doubt about it.
 
SBlue said:
You might wanna try the LD-3 first, even before the wah. I tried it once and was sold on it. Last pedalboard I had for the studio had a LD-1 first and the LD-3 last in the chain. It was perfect.
You might hate it. But hey, if you're not loosing money or hurting yourself, why not?
Click to expand...
Another update; I tried your suggestion and love it! Guitar - LD-3 - Wah - Cali76 (buffered) - amp. This way the wah screams and cries a bit more, still in a non-harsh way and the overall effect seems a bit intensified. And it's different than activating the wah's own built in buffer (which is very good but I don't usually use it). My original pedal order sounds and reacts in a slightly more vintage way, perhaps a touch grittier with a more subtle transition between the wah's highest and lowest positions. I believe I will leave it setup the way you suggested so thank you very much for the idea Tiago!!!
 
You're welcome!
That's exactly what it did to my setup too. It kept the original wah tone, but it just gave it a bit "more" wah.
Also, those Pete Cornish buffers are from another planet. Never heard anything else that great.
 
I have the xotic.. it's a great voiced wah with true bypass and all this functionality but for some reason it just doesn't do what I want. for that I have the cry baby mini which is fantastic BUT it isn't great with a fuzz because i think it too doesn't have a buffer. Or is "part true bypass". It is all very confusing. What I have learned is that 2 things matter to me:

1. I don't want a loss in high end. If there is a buffer and there is high end, I prefer that.

2. It has to play well with fuzz. Not many do unless the FUZZ is made to be stacked behind.

So really, not sure there is a perfect wah and maybe life was simpler back in the day when a 65$ cry baby dulled your tone, but the OD or EQ pedal you ran after it restored the high end. We never knew better and we just rolled with it.
 
True bypass is a bunch of bullshit Mike Fuller started. 160A DBX got the sound from coloring it not some transparent bs that you cant tell if its even on. Boss and MXR are still king
 
I've decided to resurrect this thread.. in addition to having a funny last comment above, I was looking back into wahs tonight because go figure, I have a cry baby mini that I have had for years and picked up a new junior a few months back because i liked the bigger footprint and how it sits on my pedaltrain board. But low and behold I am learning that the only wah I like to play on a slanted board is the mini, the others have to be on the floor for the way I play them..

Furthermore, the mini has the mojo. It has the sound. Why is this? Why is it better than the xotic and presumably the same circuit + TB in the junior? Answer.. has to be the buffer ( or whatever the hell is in the circuit path). The other two wahs aren't holding together as well across all frequencies while that lil bastard is near perfect. Especially for that old MSG sound. I've watched numerous old live vids from the early MSG days, Schenker is stepping on an old dusty off the shelf black cry baby. Pretty sure it is the GCB95 because you could pick one of those up just about anywhere in the world in a pinch.

So call me crazy, but I'm in the buffer camp. I'll let the cork sniffers have the TB. I love the high end I get back from budget friendly pedals.
 
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