Rack advice, long read but need some!

[RoyceW]

Hey guys,

Sorry about the length but I need to deal with this. If any of you guys could help or offer any suggestions, I'm eternally in debt to all of you. Thanks!

Gear:

Amps Used:
Hughes and Kettner Statesman Dual EL34 Head - Going to Mesa 2x12
Mesa Triple Rectifier - Going to Mesa 4x12

Effects Used:
TC Electronic G Major 1
DBX 166A Stereo Compressor/Gate
Xotic BB Preamp (in front)
Ibanez TS808 (in front)

Switching done by Voodoo Lab GCX audio switcher, controlled with Ground Control Pro.

Routing:

Presently, my routing is as follows:

My guitar goes through a Korg Pitchblack Tuner before it hits the Guitar In of the GCX. From there, guitar out (GCX) goes to Channel 1 of the DBX compressor, then to the input of the first GCX loop. Loop 1 is empty as the IA switch on my Ground Control is my Tap Tempo. Loops 2 and 3 contain the BB Pre and the 808, then the out of loop 3 is sent to the input of the Hughes and Kettner. Loop 4 is set aside for switching the Mesa head (A/B between ch 2 & 3). The FX Loop send from the Hughes goes to the in of loop 6 on the GCX. From there, Loops 6&7 contain Ch.2 of the DBX and the GMajor wired for mono and sent back to the Amp Return out of loop 7. Loop 8 controls the switching on my Hughes and Kettner in A/B.

Problem:

With this band I need to run the Mesa and the Hughes in stereo. Firstly, I'll need to successfully split the signal out of Loop 4, so that my pedals can hit both amps simultaneously. I also need to run the G Major stereo through both heads. The DBX will be compressing the front end of both amps (placed right after the Guitar In of the GCX), as well as gating my front end signal. The DBX also gates the FX loop of the Hughes and Kettner (not wired for stereo, yet!).

Taking the Mesa out of the equation as it is now, I have a lot of ground loop buzz with the current setup. The DBX successfully gates any signal noise I have, but not the ground. Plugging directly into the amps is dead quiet.

What I need is to develop a stereo system with what I have now. I have looked into the possibility of adding a line mixer to split the effects to both heads, but not sure if it's totally necessary. Stereo effects would be nice, but not 100% needed. My biggest concern is being able to run both amps simultaneously with my pedals hitting both of them with as little noise as possible. I'm not running a lot of gain, the baritone does the work.

 

[RoyceW]

Bumpity Bump

 

[mrkmas]

I just want to make sure I completely understand this. You are getting ground loop with everything hooked up excluding the mesa? try this, Unplug everything from the rack except the gcx ( and any furman power conditioner if you use one). run the guitar into the gcx and out of the gcx to the H&K. still have a ground loop?

 

[RoyceW]

Excluding, and including the Mesa. I know the noise is coming from one of the pieces in the rack, I'll be able to tear it apart and isolate the issue tomorrow night.

 

[RoyceW]

Getting past the loop buzz, I'm just wondering if any of you guys have experience with using a stereo setup centered by a GCX. Is there a way to route the amps for stereo, after the pedal chain, without going with an ABY? Also, if anyone's had experience using a stereo rig with a TC GMajor, that would help as well! Thanks guys!

 

[petejt]

To start off with, Zachman would be one to seek for advice on this.
He has a rig where basically his pedals are in loops that can be switched in an out, then select whatever of four amps he wants to use, switching them in much the same way as the pedals. All that runs in mono. The output from whatever amp he selects, gets sent to a mixer. The mixer splits to stereo, and has two sets of parallel effects. The final stereo output from that effect processing goes to a stereo poweramp & the speakers. He also runs a dry cab in the middle, which is fed from an extra output before the mixer stage. I think that's correct...


I'll give it a go though:

Presently, my routing is as follows:

My guitar goes through a Korg Pitchblack Tuner before it hits the Guitar In of the GCX. From there, guitar out (GCX) goes to Channel 1 of the DBX compressor, then to the input of the first GCX loop. Loop 1 is empty as the IA switch on my Ground Control is my Tap Tempo. Loops 2 and 3 contain the BB Pre and the 808, then the out of loop 3 is sent to the input of the Hughes and Kettner. Loop 4 is set aside for switching the Mesa head (A/B between ch 2 & 3). The FX Loop send from the Hughes goes to the in of loop 6 on the GCX. From there, Loops 6&7 contain Ch.2 of the DBX and the GMajor wired for mono and sent back to the Amp Return out of loop 7. Loop 8 controls the switching on my Hughes and Kettner in A/B.

Problem:

With this band I need to run the Mesa and the Hughes in stereo. Firstly, I'll need to successfully split the signal out of Loop 4, so that my pedals can hit both amps simultaneously. I also need to run the G Major stereo through both heads. The DBX will be compressing the front end of both amps (placed right after the Guitar In of the GCX), as well as gating my front end signal. The DBX also gates the FX loop of the Hughes and Kettner (not wired for stereo, yet!).

Taking the Mesa out of the equation as it is now, I have a lot of ground loop buzz with the current setup. The DBX successfully gates any signal noise I have, but not the ground. Plugging directly into the amps is dead quiet.

What I need is to develop a stereo system with what I have now. I have looked into the possibility of adding a line mixer to split the effects to both heads, but not sure if it's totally necessary. Stereo effects would be nice, but not 100% needed. My biggest concern is being able to run both amps simultaneously with my pedals hitting both of them with as little noise as possible. I'm not running a lot of gain, the baritone does the work.

It should be easy to run in stereo with the G-Major.


ONLY use the GCX to patch in units that you will use occasionally. If you're going to be using a unit all the time, e.g. DBX compressor, then there is no need to put it into a loop.

With that being the scenario:


Connect your guitar's output to the tuner.

Connect the Tuner's output to the Left input of the DBX.

Connect the DBX Left Output to Loop 1 Input of the GCX.

Patch in the BB and 808 in Loop 1's Send & Return.

Connect Loop 1 Output to the Guitar In of the GCX.

Connect the Guitar Out of the GCX to the input of your Triple Recto amp.

Connect the Feed Thru Out of the GCX to the input of your Statesman amp.

(The Guitar Output of the GCX also feeds signal to the Feed Thru Output. Therefore it acts as a signal splitter. So why bother with a line mixer?)

Connect the Recto's effects loop send to Loop 2 Input.

Patch in the Gmajor's Left Input and Output to Loop 2 Send & Return.

Connect Loop 2 Output to the Effects Return of the Triple Recto.

Connect the Statesman's effects loop send to Loop 3 Input.

Patch in the Gmajor's Right Input and Output to Loop 3 Send & Return.

Connect Loop 3 output to the DBX Right Input.

Connect the DBX's Right Output to the Effects Return of the Statesman.

Connect your speakers to the amps outputs as per normal.


Use the remainder of the GCX's loops for your amp switching, tap tempo control etc.

 

[petejt]

As you can see on the diagram, the Guitar Output also feeds signal to the Feed Thru. Just make sure you connect your input signal to the Guitar In on the front of the GCX, not the Feed Thru.

 

[Ben Hur]

As you can see on the diagram, the Guitar Output also feeds signal to the Feed Thru. Just make sure you connect your input signal to the Guitar In on the front of the GCX, not the Feed Thru.

the above post and the diagram should be right. i have a rocktron patchmate loop switcher, but its the same deal. 1 input, 2 available outputs.