Rack effects

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sandman

sandman

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Is there any dedicated effects only rack unit still made today? As I get money, i’m piecing together a rack rig. Will use synergy modules eventually. Was thinking about using rack mount effects unit. I’m not opposed to buying an older used unit of some sort but wondering if anything new is still out there
 
Not really. H9000 exists if you got deep pockets. Lexicon PCM96 is purchasable...although I'd never buy one. Behringer FX2000, although I have no clue how good it is. Other than stuff like that, it's most likely gonna have modeling or other additional features. Classic stuff still works and is great, though. There's a TC G-Major 2 on Reverb right now for $275 in great condition. There are a few G-Forces for around $400, too. Nice Intellifex on eBay for $350. I'd look at some of those.
 
Code001 said:
Not really. H9000 exists if you got deep pockets. Lexicon PCM96 is purchasable...although I'd never buy one. Behringer FX2000, although I have no clue how good it is. Other than stuff like that, it's most likely gonna have modeling or other additional features. Classic stuff still works and is great, though. There's a TC G-Major 2 on Reverb right now for $275 in great condition. There are a few G-Forces for around $400, too. Nice Intellifex on eBay for $350. I'd look at some of those.
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Yea my pockets can’t reach the eventide or lexicon lol. The Behringer is cheap enough its maybe worth a try. Wouldnt be out much if it sucks lol
 
I ended up grabbing an Eventide H90 because I’ll still need a controller out front as well as tuner, etc. figured since those’ll be in a board anyway…

I will also likely grab a G Major 2
 
JerEvil said:
Please explain “use with a mixer”
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Personally, I use my Axe-Fx II, G Major 2, and MPX-1 through a Samson SM-10 parallel mixer because running straight through any of these digital units will mess with your tone and dynamics because they convert 100% of your tone to digital. Using a mixer allows you to pass your analog tone straight through, and then only mix a little bit of the digital modulation, delay, and reverb on top of your raw analog tone without effecting the tone or dynamics.

If I were to buy a H90 or VP4, I would probably still run them through something like the RJM Micro Line Mixer to preserve my analog tone.
 
JerEvil said:
Please explain “use with a mixer”
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The analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog (AD/DA) converters in a lot of these units that don't have an analog dry-thru color the sound of the amp. Some can even cause some slight impact in feel as there's now a bit of a delay compared to the raw tube amp due to the AD/DA conversion, albeit this tends to be kinda rare with just guitar effects processors.

By using a mixer and setting your effects processor to be in killdry mode (which mutes your dry signal), you get the full effect from the unit without harming your original tone. It also allows you to help negate gaps in effects units that are compute intensive and drop your signal out for a second when changing patches.

Note that mixers cannot be used on effects that require 100% of your signal such as noise gates, EQs, etc. You would want to place those effects before you hit your mixer. Remember, you're basically using a parallel loop setup here now. If you have a unit that has everything built-in like a G-Force or G-Major, you need to decide between impacting your sound with the AD/DA conversion, or not using those effects as you'll probably have phasing issues.

The TC G-series processors are well-known for impacting the sound of your signal due to their AD/DA converters, hence why so many people like running them with mixers. I kinda feel it's rig-dependent, though. That or my ears are just getting older, and I don't mind it quite as much.
 
JerEvil said:
Please explain “use with a mixer”
Click to expand...

@Shask and @Code001 have explained it well.

I went from a Samson SM10 to a Red Seven Multi Stereo Line Mixer (MSLM) and couldn't be happier.
Much easier for me to use, can hook up many more units, easily kill the dry of my tone and just have 'wet only' if I wish.
Great unit, not cheap though.
 
Regarding mixers......

Dont forget the speed of the processor of the effects unit. I would take tone suck over drop out any time, especially in a live gig situation. There are some units (PCM42 comes to mind} that can color your sound in a positive way. There isnt any positive in dropout though. LOL

If you're using the effects and either have a set and forget or are using patches that are tweaks from the same algorithm you should be good. Just dont forget the importance of a mixer, or parallel loop for the dropout. Thankfully most of the newer units are fast enough, but those classic units that werent really meant for a guitar rig have trouble keeping up.
 
I just poked thru Sweetwater and there really wasn't anything for Rack Effects..
Everything is in floor Units and not by the OQ brands like Lexicon..
 
Get an Axe-Fx. Run it 100% wet and use a mixer if you want to keep your core tone from being AD/DA converted to avoid potential wet/dry phase issues. That’s easily the best rack effects setup available today.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Get an Axe-Fx. Run it 100% wet and use a mixer if you want to keep your core tone from being AD/DA converted to avoid potential wet/dry phase issues. That’s easily the best rack effects setup available today.
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most versatile and guitar friendly yes.
I found my axefx too 'generic' for fx... yes it sounded amazing and the fx are top tier.

It wasn't until I got an Eventide eclipse and PCM80 that i realised how much 'soul' and colour these other fx units carry.
I find these more inspiring to play and create even though they colour the sound more than the axefx
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Get an Axe-Fx. Run it 100% wet and use a mixer if you want to keep your core tone from being AD/DA converted to avoid potential wet/dry phase issues. That’s easily the best rack effects setup available today.
Click to expand...

If you run the Axe-Fx or say any other one unit using multiple effects with different mixes with-in each effect block how would that work with a mixer? I have a MPX G2 that I run for my wet cabs in stereo and with pitch I am mixing something like 35%, delay 15% and reverb 10%. How would that work with a line mixer? I can see if you had or wanted all effects at the same mix to dry sound but don't understand how I would use a mixer in my case.
 
jasonP said:
If you run the Axe-Fx or say any other one unit using multiple effects with different mixes with-in each effect block how would that work with a mixer? I have a MPX G2 that I run for my wet cabs in stereo and with pitch I am mixing something like 35%, delay 15% and reverb 10%. How would that work with a line mixer? I can see if you had or wanted all effects at the same mix to dry sound but don't understand how I would use a mixer in my case.
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In general you'd use a mixer with an Axe-Fx Rig by setting your effects in the Axe-Fx to be 100% wet and the effect block's level control for the effect's relative volume, and from there you'd set your external mixer to max volume for both the core tone and Axe-Fx signal. This would allow you to dial your effects to a max of 50% wettness while keeping your core non-AD/DA-converted tone intact.

As for how to setup each effect in the Axe-Fx to work in that kind of setup, you could do it like this, with each effect set to 100% wet, using the level control in each block to control effect volume, to make it work like a traditional rack where every effect is in parallel. If you're only using the Axe-Fx for post effects and only want to route your effects in parallel, you can keep things simple by routing blocks like this:
azDut26.png



However if you want a bit more flexibility, I'd route parallel effects like this instead. It's the exact same thing, just arranged differently:
bfX5Udq.png



If you wanted a more natural sound where each effect processes every effect that comes before it, like if you wanted your reverb to process your delay trails kind of like how a pedalboard works, you can add extra signal routes like this:
BtaAb2u.png


Remember to set every effect to 100% wet and Bypass Mode for each block to "Mute In" as well.

I wrote a big effort-post on the Fractal forums a while back about this kind of effects routing here:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/clean-capable-w-d-w-foh-grid-routing-idea.183177/
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
In general you'd use a mixer with an Axe-Fx Rig by setting your effects in the Axe-Fx to be 100% wet and the effect block's level control for the effect's relative volume, and from there you'd set your external mixer to max volume for both the core tone and Axe-Fx signal. This would allow you to dial your effects to a max of 50% mix while keeping your dry tone intact.

As for how to setup each effect in the Axe-Fx to work in that kind of setup, you could do it like this, with each effect set to 100% wet, using the level control in each block to control effect volume, to make it work like a traditional rack where every effect is in parallel.

If you're only using the Axe-Fx for post effects and only want to route your effects in parallel, you can keep things simple by routing blocks like this:
azDut26.png



However if you want a bit more flexibility, I'd route parallel effects like this instead:
bfX5Udq.png



If you wanted each effect to process every effect that comes before it, like if you wanted your delay trails to have reverb as well as the main signal, you'd add extra signal routes like this:
BtaAb2u.png


Remember to set every effect to 100% wet and Bypass Mode for each block to "Mute In" as well.

I made a big effort-post on the Fractal forums a while back about this kind of effects routing here:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/clean-capable-w-d-w-foh-grid-routing-idea.183177/
Click to expand...

Ahhh that makes complete sense thank you for taking the time to explain it to me!
 
For new products, AXE would be my choice. Reasonably priced and very good. But, if you want the BEST tone (Subjective of course) the vintage stuff still rules IMO. Older Lexicon PCMs, Roland SDE 3000s color your sound in a very good way, and even change the feel a bit. I run 2 SDE 3000s both at different delay times (350ms; 700ms) and split them with my HH V800 power amp. I went a little cheaper with my reverb unit, Lex MPX1...but it's a great sounding box for not a lot of $$. It does have Detune, delay, chorus so you can go with one for everything.
The MPX1, 250 or so...SDE 3000s each around the same. Of course, these units are old and may fail but so far so good. Had them for about 6 yrs now.
 
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