Rack Eleven Cab Sim and Interface Quality?

[crankyrayhanky]

*I have some Randall mts modules modded; tones I love.
*I need an audio interface with trs, spdif, and midi connections
*I need to be able to play with headphones
*My computers are ok, but could use an updating (they're about 2-3 years old)

option #1: I could get a cheap interface; in order to get all of the above (trs, spdif, and midi), I'm looking at $200.

I fear between my cpu, the OS, the DAW, the interface, and the cab IRs, I may have time consuming issues. I've read many stories where things don't jive, leaving you screwed unless you buy a new cpu, different DAW, etc.

This leads me to Rack 11. I've been anti-Guitar Sim for a long time, but this may be my answer. I imagine the ADA is at least on par if not better than most of the sub $500 units I've looked at. How about the cab sims? Decent? I imagine not as great as RedWire or whatever is the hot program....If I could go mts>Eleven cab sims and get a great tone, the rest of the unit would be gravy for me.

I've looked at Fractal, but between the high price and the layout (little scrolling parameter buttons), I'm not thrilled.

Keep in mind, fancy swirling fx are only somewhat fun to me; I just seek a decent, straight forward, no frills Hard Rock/Metal tone that slays. I'll still be able to mic up my cabs from time to time (reamp), but I need to be able to lay down some quality tracks with a tone that is somewhat inspirational.

FYI: I found a place where I can get an 11 for $650 new

Any advice appreciated! I've been surfing for awhile on this one

 

[megamike]

i have one ,i like it,new software update coming next week, still like my mesa stiletto better.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

^Thanks!
??? are the fx worthwhile enough to integrate into your live amp setup?
Mesa with Rack11 fx only in the loop?

 

[Axe-Man]

I think the 11R is a killer unit.

For sims (not FX) it's extremely close to the Axe FX...the difference is subtle and it's just user preference after that IMHO. It was also 1/3 the price of the Axe Ultra for me.

The cool things about the 11R are:

Price
Protools (inc sampled drums, synths, piano, FX etc)
Really solidily modelled FX based on a decent amount of stomp box FX
Flexible signal chain
Pro level reamping (prob the best reamping around - it even remembers your settings as they are stored in a track)
Built in interface inc Mic pre and phantom power
Big screen (this is really a plus)
Knobs!
It's the easiest unit around to operate with no convoluted or hidden menus
Works fantastically live as well
Integrates with the cheap Rocktron Midi Mate extremely easily

I additionally use my 11R into a stereo tube poweramp (a VHT 2/50/2 clone) and 212 cab and it sounds great. Just like an amp IMHO...made me sell my Dual Recto stack and has sounded great when played next to a Metropolous Plexi, a handwired PTP channel switcher and an AC30.

You can also (I use a tube preamp) run a preamp such as the Randall M4 into it via the FX loop and use it as a 2RU outboard FX unit. Boost, Drive, Wah, Mod, Delay, EQ, Reverb etc with two cables. It's a cinch to setup and with a single patch change you are straight back to the 11R. Another patch change and you are again playing through the M4 with a completely different signal chain setup. It's so simple to use and sounds great like this.

Additionally, you can run the M4 instead of your amp block and use the 11R's cab and mic sims. I use an inbuilt 4x12 cab with greenbacks and a off axis mic and some basic EQ, Boost, Drive and Rev and it sounds great IMHO direct. It doesn't use poweramp sims and you would think it would make the pre sound average but I actually run the HD500 this way (preamp only) and it sounds great through the 11R this way. YMMV.

If you want to play live, just select rig out>no cab and you are playing through any poweramp of your choosing.

I've love custom IRs but it's not like the inbuilt ones are POD level.

The firmware update coming next week adds a huge amount of stuff inc Parametric, SVT bass rig and Mic channel strip amongst about 20 more amps. I imagine the next firmware update will be loads more FX.

It's an awesome unit for the money IMHO.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

^excellent breakdown

Here's an odd reamp question...I know it can reamp within itself, but can I use it as an interface reamper only:
Play through 11 only, record di and 11amp on seperate tracks
Wait till family leaves house, take di back out: cmpu>11>my Randall Head>mic> 11mic input> cmpu

made me sell my Dual Recto stack

I'm on the verge here, tip me over

 

[Axe-Man]

^excellent breakdown

Here's an odd reamp question...I know it can reamp within itself, but can I use it as an interface reamper only:
Play through 11 only, record di and 11amp on seperate tracks
Wait till family leaves house, take di back out: cmpu>11>my Randall Head>mic> 11mic input> cmpu

made me sell my Dual Recto stack

I'm on the verge here, tip me over

I've never tried it like that but you could solo the dry guitar track, play it through the 11R and then into the Randall head, mic it and send the mic'd signal back to protools via the 11R mic pre I imagine (don't quote me on this). Maybe someone's done this and could chime in.

I preferred the MkIIc+ sim through my poweramp compared to the Recto stack. It just sounded tighter and more focused and nastier where the Recto without huge volume (and a big boost) sounded more vintage. Just how it sounded at the time; it was a mid 90s 2ch Dual Recto with Ruby tubes in pretty good health.

I guess the Mesa tone I've dialed in works really well with the poweramp, plus it's got inbuilt gate, boost, EQ all setup so it's also not noisy. The Recto was loud though! Noticably louder than my 50w poweramp! Didn't also think I needed that level of volume at the time.

The high gain tones I've dialed in work for me and are some of the nicest I've personally played through (this is just me personally). I am though getting a Ceriatone Chupacabra as I love the boosted Marshall Plexi thing. The 11R does have a pretty awesome Plexi sim IMHO.

I find the 11R preamps compared to the tube preamp just sounds different. It's like two different quality preamps rather than the whole 'one sounds digital and one sounds tube' argument. They honestly both sound good and like any brand of tube/ss or digital preamp, it's user preference. The cool thing about the 11R is after the firmware update, you will have 30+ preamp models to choose from so it should be easy to find something you like. PEQ will make a noticable difference to the high gain tones as well.

 

[IndyWS6]

I liked it well enough to buy two - one for my live rig and one for my recording desk. There are some haters, but for what I do - great bang for the buck. If you can get a new one for $650, it's almost a no-brainer. IMHO, YMMV, etc.

 

[Ventura]

It won award after award, and it's priced amazingly well. The Axe-FX has taken precidence in pretty well all the categories now, but still lacks headphone jacks and direct USB in/out.

I went with the Axe-Ultra, price wasn't a concern, but if there wasn't an Axe, I would have IMMEDIATELY considered the 11.

V.

EDIT: Just wanted to add too, that as of late, a number of cats I know using anything under the DigiDesign umbrella have said software/firmware updates have been problematic, and the customer service down the drain. I'm almost positive that the Eleven rack is a product of DigiDesign or one of its subsidiaries

 

[lolzgreg]

Do not get an 11 rack. They sound like absolute shit through a power amp or effects return, no matter what you do. They don't allow you to change the input sensitivity for DI recording, and they are just overall not that great in any way.

If anything get an AxeFX. I've honestly coaxed some of the most realistic non-amped recordings I've ever done out of a BOSS GT-8.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

much to consider....thanks for the replies

 

[degenaro]

^excellent breakdown

Here's an odd reamp question...I know it can reamp within itself, but can I use it as an interface reamper only:
Play through 11 only, record di and 11amp on seperate tracks
Wait till family leaves house, take di back out: cmpu>11>my Randall Head>mic> 11mic input> cmpu

made me sell my Dual Recto stack

I'm on the verge here, tip me over

That's what I like it for...

 

[Axe-Man]

Do not get an 11 rack. They sound like absolute shit through a power amp or effects return, no matter what you do. They don't allow you to change the input sensitivity for DI recording, and they are just overall not that great in any way.

If anything get an AxeFX. I've honestly coaxed some of the most realistic non-amped recordings I've ever done out of a BOSS GT-8.

Ok...so what you are saying is to spend three times the amount for 5% better tones.

I've owned: POD 1.0, VAmp Pro, X3 Live, HD300 and HD500 POD and 11R.

11R is by far the best sounding.

So I guess that you are also saying is that: my tube preamp sounds fake, the Recto sounds fake, the Metropolous Plexi, my AC30, the hardwired PTP EL34 amp...all sound like complete arse because the 11R sounds comparable.

 

[ratter]

I love my 11R. LOVE it. And I've owned the Axe-Fx as well, and prefer the 11R. I use it for direct playing through headphones or monitors. Don't use it through a power amp, and haven't tried a separate preamp in front, so I can't really comment on that. Although I used it for stomp FX only in front of my amp once and it worked great in that regard.

Buy it from someplace with a return policy and give it a try if you think it will do the trick for you.

I love the simplicity and I lucked out in the regard that even though the model selections are very limited, they hit all the ones I would have wanted anyway.

 

[IndyWS6]

My rig has an Eleven Rack as the pre amp/effects unit and a Mesa Simul 2:90 as the power amp. I also have a slide-out shelf with a few select stomp boxes (routed to the front of the Eleven Rack) and a Midiverb III (routed through the loop of the Eleven Rack) using a GCX/GC Pro combo. The output runs through either an old Carvin 4x12 (wired in stereo) or a pair of Avatar 2x12's. It's flexible, it sounds great and it can absolutely roar if I need the volume.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - and I certainly have mine, biased as it is. But, I don't think it's fair to someone thinking about purchasing an Eleven Rack to say that it "sounds like shit through a power amp or effects return, no matter what you do". At the very least, that hasn't been my experience. As usual, IMHO, YMMV, etc.

Respectfully...

 

[lolzgreg]

Do not get an 11 rack. They sound like absolute shit through a power amp or effects return, no matter what you do. They don't allow you to change the input sensitivity for DI recording, and they are just overall not that great in any way.

If anything get an AxeFX. I've honestly coaxed some of the most realistic non-amped recordings I've ever done out of a BOSS GT-8.

Ok...so what you are saying is to spend three times the amount for 5% better tones.

I've owned: POD 1.0, VAmp Pro, X3 Live, HD300 and HD500 POD and 11R.

11R is by far the best sounding.

So I guess that you are also saying is that: my tube preamp sounds fake, the Recto sounds fake, the Metropolous Plexi, my AC30, the hardwired PTP EL34 amp...all sound like complete arse because the 11R sounds comparable.

By far the best sounding out of all of those? I bet you I could get an X3 live sounding better than the 11R in about fifteen minutes. On that note, you haven't thrown in any of the BOSS products, which believe it or not can really bring the goods if you know how to tweak them, and I'm really completely unbiased; I couldn't care less about who makes a product if it sounds great and does the job.

How exactly are you quantifying how much better the AxeFx sounds than the 11R? I'm no AxeFx fan boy; I don't even own one. All I know is that I've played through them and gotten pretty damn passable tones, and they actually sound good out of the box.

The way you're defending the product combined with your minuscule post count makes it sound like you're a Digidesign employee.

If you're trying to say you can run a stock, un-tweaked 11R into the power section of a tube amp with the cabinet and power amp simulation off, and it sound comparable to a real amp's preamplifier, or at least moderately close to the one it is modeling, you are completely full of it. I had an 11R at my house that used to belong to Daneyo during an amp fest we had over the past summer where there were over 20 top notch amplifiers at our disposal, as well as 6 top notch cabinets, and it sounded like complete dog shit through a Mesa 2:90, the Fortin Bones poweramp section, and the 5150 III poweramp section for both modern and classic tones. We tweaked parameters for about a half hour, and we were begging Dan to shut the piece of garbage off.

Did I ever once say that the 11R sounded fake? I said it sounded like shit, and not great in any way, which I still stand by.

I'm neither going to comment on your amplifier collection, nor your ability to dial one in, or record one, because it would be foolish to do so considering I have never heard your work. Would you like to post some clips comparing your Rectifier mic'd up through a cabinet, and your 11R's simulator, or perhaps your Recto through the cabinet, and your 11R preamp through the Recto's effects return so we can really hear you back up your claims?

My rig has an Eleven Rack as the pre amp/effects unit and a Mesa Simul 2:90 as the power amp. I also have a slide-out shelf with a few select stomp boxes (routed to the front of the Eleven Rack) and a Midiverb III (routed through the loop of the Eleven Rack) using a GCX/GC Pro combo. The output runs through either an old Carvin 4x12 (wired in stereo) or a pair of Avatar 2x12's. It's flexible, it sounds great and it can absolutely roar if I need the volume.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - and I certainly have mine, biased as it is. But, I don't think it's fair to someone thinking about purchasing an Eleven Rack to say that it "sounds like shit through a power amp or effects return, no matter what you do". At the very least, that hasn't been my experience. As usual, IMHO, YMMV, etc.

Respectfully...

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad that the 11R is working for you. However, someone asked me for my opinion, and aside from my own experience with the unit, I know professional users who have flipped the 11R faster than a formula one car going around a tight turn at 200+MPH. The features overall are not stellar for a interface, and the amp simulations are less than passable IMO. I'm not here to piss in Digidesign's cereal, but I was wholeheartedly unimpressed with this product.

 

[IndyWS6]

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad that the 11R is working for you. However, someone asked me for my opinion, and aside from my own experience with the unit, I know professional users who have flipped the 11R faster than a formula one car going around a tight turn at 200+MPH. The features overall are not stellar for a interface, and the amp simulations are less than passable IMO. I'm not here to piss in Digidesign's cereal, but I was wholeheartedly unimpressed with this product.

And that's cool. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Thankfully, there are several pre amp and modeling devices available. I'm not trying to get anyone to buy it just because I have one; it doesn't really matter to me. I just thought that your comments were a little harsh and might actually dissuade someone from looking at or purchasing the unit. Again, that's your opinion and if you feel that way about the unit, that's cool. But, Knowing that it works for me, I thought I would throw that out to, hopefully, balance the opinions so the OP wouldn't write the unit off unnecessarily. It works for me, and may work for them, if they are inclined to give it a go. It's all good

 

[crankyrayhanky]

That "dogshit" post from lolzgreg was the last thing I read before going to bed last night- instead of counting sheep, I typically compute gear acquistions in my head.

Lots of love and hate.....let me break it down:
First priority is getting my first audio interface and software (I've been with Roland VS for decades)
I have a new baby in the house, so I'll need a tone that doesn't completely suck through headphones. I love my MTS rig, so this headphone system needn't be the world's best, just enough to inspire more creativity/tunes.

The number of clips in my prefeerred genre are not plentiful. I find lots of Satriani-esque songs from Cruise Boat Lead players with chops and cool fx; I like listening to that, but that's not how I play. I also don't understand the clips of Eleven mic'ed up with a webcam- isn't the DI the easiest for this piece

If anyone has some hard rock clips- direct from Eleven, that would help. Tuned down anyone between dropD > dropA would be great. Sevendust, Slipknot, StoneSour type rhythms is what I seek. No reverb/delays

I don't care so much if it dead on emulates a Rectfier, but if the tone can stand on its own. The Rectifier Red for rhythms and Orange for leads will most likely be my go to amps on this rack

Thanks for helping me sift through this decision.....I just sold off a module and now have funds to make a move on this today - either Eleven, Interface (with Cab Sims), or the long shot sell more stuff and get the Fractal

At this point I may just get the Eleven, use it to learn ProTools and (if need be) flip it down the road- the time spent will probably be worth the devalue loss. But then I hear lolzgreg DOGSHIT and I hesitate!

Crap- I just went Charlie SheenGAS on you

 

[IndyWS6]

I just re-read my last post and it comes across as being a bit "snippy". For the record, that certainly wasn't my intention - "tone" (written form) can sometimes hard as hard to convey as amp tone.

Anyway, all I can say is that I find the Eleven Rack to be a decent, useful tool. In my opinion, it sounds good, has plenty of features that work well for the way I use it, is an interface into Pro Tools (which I didn't have before) and was worth the money I spent on it. I'm not a shredder and tend to steer a little north of the type of music you listed, which may (or may not) be a factor. This isn't helping, is it

I haven't been around here that long, and from what I've seen, lolzgreg is well-respected and has owned and used far more equipment than I have, so I would certainly value his opinion. If you can get one with a return policy - I say go for it. If you were close, I'd gladly let you try mine out, but I'm in the middle of a cornfield in central Indiana...

 

[voma79]

I love my 11R. I wont be selling my Herbert anytime soon, but for what im using it for it is unbelievable. I am using it as a recoding interface and quiet practice tool. I have used many other plugin amp modelers and nothing quite felt right. To me that is the difference in the 11R and other plugins and modelers, it feels more like your playing a real amplifier. You may not have 120 different amp models and 119 cabinets models but i dont miss them. There is enough versatility in the few amps it has to get what i need out of it. I think for the price and the versatility its a no brainer.



Just my opinion, everyone hears things differently i guess

 

[degenaro]

That "dogshit" post from lolzgreg was the last thing I read before going to bed last night- instead of counting sheep, I typically compute gear acquistions in my head.

Lots of love and hate.....let me break it down:
First priority is getting my first audio interface and software (I've been with Roland VS for decades)
I have a new baby in the house, so I'll need a tone that doesn't completely suck through headphones. I love my MTS rig, so this headphone system needn't be the world's best, just enough to inspire more creativity/tunes.

The number of clips in my prefeerred genre are not plentiful. I find lots of Satriani-esque songs from Cruise Boat Lead players with chops and cool fx; I like listening to that, but that's not how I play. I also don't understand the clips of Eleven mic'ed up with a webcam- isn't the DI the easiest for this piece

If anyone has some hard rock clips- direct from Eleven, that would help. Tuned down anyone between dropD > dropA would be great. Sevendust, Slipknot, StoneSour type rhythms is what I seek. No reverb/delays

I don't care so much if it dead on emulates a Rectfier, but if the tone can stand on its own. The Rectifier Red for rhythms and Orange for leads will most likely be my go to amps on this rack

Thanks for helping me sift through this decision.....I just sold off a module and now have funds to make a move on this today - either Eleven, Interface (with Cab Sims), or the long shot sell more stuff and get the Fractal

At this point I may just get the Eleven, use it to learn ProTools and (if need be) flip it down the road- the time spent will probably be worth the devalue loss. But then I hear lolzgreg DOGSHIT and I hesitate!

Crap- I just went Charlie SheenGAS on you

For what you're looking at the 11 will be just fine. Look at it this way a decent interface will be 500 bucks, you can use Reaper...personally I'd rather get 11R.