Rack Eleven Cab Sim and Interface Quality?

[degenaro]

Do not get an 11 rack. They sound like absolute shit through a power amp or effects return, no matter what you do. They don't allow you to change the input sensitivity for DI recording, and they are just overall not that great in any way.

If anything get an AxeFX. I've honestly coaxed some of the most realistic non-amped recordings I've ever done out of a BOSS GT-8.

Ok...so what you are saying is to spend three times the amount for 5% better tones.

I've owned: POD 1.0, VAmp Pro, X3 Live, HD300 and HD500 POD and 11R.

11R is by far the best sounding.

So I guess that you are also saying is that: my tube preamp sounds fake, the Recto sounds fake, the Metropolous Plexi, my AC30, the hardwired PTP EL34 amp...all sound like complete arse because the 11R sounds comparable.

By far the best sounding out of all of those? I bet you I could get an X3 live sounding better than the 11R in about fifteen minutes. On that note, you haven't thrown in any of the BOSS products, which believe it or not can really bring the goods if you know how to tweak them, and I'm really completely unbiased; I couldn't care less about who makes a product if it sounds great and does the job.

How exactly are you quantifying how much better the AxeFx sounds than the 11R? I'm no AxeFx fan boy; I don't even own one. All I know is that I've played through them and gotten pretty damn passable tones, and they actually sound good out of the box.

The way you're defending the product combined with your minuscule post count makes it sound like you're a Digidesign employee.

If you're trying to say you can run a stock, un-tweaked 11R into the power section of a tube amp with the cabinet and power amp simulation off, and it sound comparable to a real amp's preamplifier, or at least moderately close to the one it is modeling, you are completely full of it. I had an 11R at my house that used to belong to Daneyo during an amp fest we had over the past summer where there were over 20 top notch amplifiers at our disposal, as well as 6 top notch cabinets, and it sounded like complete dog shit through a Mesa 2:90, the Fortin Bones poweramp section, and the 5150 III poweramp section for both modern and classic tones. We tweaked parameters for about a half hour, and we were begging Dan to shut the piece of garbage off.

Did I ever once say that the 11R sounded fake? I said it sounded like shit, and not great in any way, which I still stand by.

I'm neither going to comment on your amplifier collection, nor your ability to dial one in, or record one, because it would be foolish to do so considering I have never heard your work. Would you like to post some clips comparing your Rectifier mic'd up through a cabinet, and your 11R's simulator, or perhaps your Recto through the cabinet, and your 11R preamp through the Recto's effects return so we can really hear you back up your claims?

My rig has an Eleven Rack as the pre amp/effects unit and a Mesa Simul 2:90 as the power amp. I also have a slide-out shelf with a few select stomp boxes (routed to the front of the Eleven Rack) and a Midiverb III (routed through the loop of the Eleven Rack) using a GCX/GC Pro combo. The output runs through either an old Carvin 4x12 (wired in stereo) or a pair of Avatar 2x12's. It's flexible, it sounds great and it can absolutely roar if I need the volume.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - and I certainly have mine, biased as it is. But, I don't think it's fair to someone thinking about purchasing an Eleven Rack to say that it "sounds like shit through a power amp or effects return, no matter what you do". At the very least, that hasn't been my experience. As usual, IMHO, YMMV, etc.

Respectfully...

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad that the 11R is working for you. However, someone asked me for my opinion, and aside from my own experience with the unit, I know professional users who have flipped the 11R faster than a formula one car going around a tight turn at 200+MPH. The features overall are not stellar for a interface, and the amp simulations are less than passable IMO. I'm not here to piss in Digidesign's cereal, but I was wholeheartedly unimpressed with this product.

That is an awful strong opinion for limited experience with the gear....

 

[ratter]

That is an awful strong opinion for limited experience with the gear....

Not only that, but the OP didn't mention anything about running it into a power amp or fx return which seems to be the full extent of lolzgreg's experience with it.

Everybody is entitled to their opinions, but the context is more than a little bit important here.

The customer service issue is a valid one, IMO. My one experience trying to get support was pretty abysmal. By the same token, they have a user forum where the 11 developers participate, and they have an online idea-voting system. Many of the top-voted ideas got incorporated into the upcoming expansion pack. So the people that matter are listening...but if you have an issue don't be surprised if you are google searching and forum searching instead of calling up the support line and finding a real person to help over the phone...

Downtuned recto stuff isn't my thing at all, so I can't really help with a clip there. But there's a good vid on youtube comparing the 11R to a Road King(?) I think...

 

[lolzgreg]

Thanks for helping me sift through this decision.....I just sold off a module and now have funds to make a move on this today - either Eleven, Interface (with Cab Sims), or the long shot sell more stuff and get the Fractal

At this point I may just get the Eleven, use it to learn ProTools and (if need be) flip it down the road- the time spent will probably be worth the devalue loss. But then I hear lolzgreg DOGSHIT and I hesitate!

Crap- I just went Charlie SheenGAS on you

There are freeware amp simulators by LePou that run on both PC and Mac that are worlds better than most units I've heard. There is also free cab emulation software that he offers where you can load up a cabinet simulator with tons of freeware impulses, including ones I have made, and that nearly an entire forum worth of metal lovers have used and enjoyed, and get a great sound right in your DAW.

If you want to get into recording stuff, you're pretty well off with something like a Focusrite Saffire interface like this unit which is pretty damned solid ($300) http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov09/a ... o24dsp.htm

Also, if you love the sound of your MTS rig, all you need is a dummy load, and you can run your head into the dummy load for silent recording, then run the preamp send into your newly acquired audio interface, use a cab sim to load up a great impulse response, and get your tones right from there. You can even just pull the power tubes, turn the amp on, and run the preamp send out to an interface. You won't be doing any damage to the OT this way, because there is no load on the transformer.

Here is a very shameless plug for a CUSTOM impulse I made for a gentleman on UMF named Ape (ApeScaleConflict). It is his 5150 directly into an audio interface into a cab simulator with my impulse and very minor EQ with no other processing:

It sounds real, and it's using YOUR gear if you choose. If you have some experience with soldering, you can make a load box for roughly $20, and have a great rig.

I'm not here trying to sell anything, but if you want to record, and you want good tone, do it the right way. There's nothing worse than starting out recording and being shoved in the wrong direction. I learned everything I know from someone else, or experience. I want to be able to help people who need it.

That is an awful strong opinion for limited experience with the gear....

Yeah Ed, I forgot gear was supposed to sound subpar out of the box. I suppose your THD amps sounded terrible when you got them, as do your guitars, as did my Baron, My Mark IV, my Fortin, and my 5150 III...

Gear is supposed to be something that helps inspire you, not something that weighs you down. If an amp simulator does its damned job right, you can plug the preamp section of the simulator into the power amp section of the amp it is modeling, and it will sound like the unit right off the bat, and respond to the changes in the tone controls in the same manner. If it doesn't work that way, its not effective modeling, period. We create impulses based from power amp sections of amplifiers, with microphones on real guitar cabinets for a reason; that is because it is the closest current technology is going to get us to a near "real" guitar tone from modeling software. If the second half of the equation is right, the first half needs to be too, and that is getting the preamplification section of a simulator to react like a real amplifier.

So far, in a hardware unit, the AxeFx wins. Pete Thorn is a standout for making some VERY convincing clips.

Also, YOU CANNOT RETURN AN 11 RACK BECAUSE IT IS BUNDLED WITH PROTOOLS SOFTWARE, and since you have had access to that license, you own it. You have to fight with any company you buy this thing from to return it, like I know two friends of mine have at Guitar Center. It is the same with any piece of hardware bundled with non-freeware software.

 

[degenaro]

That is an awful strong opinion for limited experience with the gear....

Yeah Ed, I forgot gear was supposed to sound subpar out of the box. I suppose your THD amps sounded terrible when you got them, as do your guitars, as did my Baron, My Mark IV, my Fortin, and my 5150 III...

Gear is supposed to be something that helps inspire you, not something that weighs you down. If an amp simulator does its damned job right, you can plug the preamp section of the simulator into the power amp section of the amp it is modeling, and it will sound like the unit right off the bat, and respond to the changes in the tone controls in the same manner. If it doesn't work that way, its not effective modeling, period. We create impulses based from power amp sections of amplifiers, with microphones on real guitar cabinets for a reason; that is because it is the closest current technology is going to get us to a near "real" guitar tone from modeling software. If the second half of the equation is right, the first half needs to be too, and that is getting the preamplification section of a simulator to react like a real amplifier.

So far, in a hardware unit, the AxeFx wins. Pete Thorn is a standout for making some VERY convincing clips.

Also, YOU CANNOT RETURN AN 11 RACK BECAUSE IT IS BUNDLED WITH PROTOOLS SOFTWARE, and since you have had access to that license, you own it. You have to fight with any company you buy this thing from to return it, like I know two friends of mine have at Guitar Center. It is the same with any piece of hardware bundled with non-freeware software.

Do I prefer the 11 to the Axe...no, but neither of them sounded what I wanted to hear out of the box, just as anything with presets. Not sure how this is about the Axe-Fx "winning" obviously I agree that the Axe is the better unit...but for his purpose I don't think it is.
As far as THD goes...doesn't really compute since I was the guy that helped with their design.

As for gear being inspiring...I suppose so. For my needs I want it a functioning tool with a purpose.
The OP asked for something very specific, for which I actually would suggest 11R. Especially to use as a re-amper for his modules, and seeing that he has no interface or recording software as of now.

 

[Ancient Alien]

As far as I'm concerned the 11 rack and the the Axe FX suck sweaty ballsacks......
The Axe has good effects, but no tweaking in the world can make it sound like a real amp...
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Oh....
And...
The 11 rack really sucks

 

[Ventura]

Crap- I just went Charlie SheenGAS on you

No, if that were the case, you'd have an Axe-Ultra AND the Eleven and be.....




....Bi-winning

Thank you, thank you, greatly appreciate it folks... Thanks for coming out tonight. See you next time

V.

 

[Ventura]

As far as I'm concerned the 11 rack and the the Axe FX suck sweaty ballsacks......
The Axe has good effects, but no tweaking in the world can make it sound like a real amp...
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Oh....
And...
The 11 rack really sucks

And you see, this is where it all comes to qualitative opines and perspectives. I think the Ultra kicks serious ass and sounds almost (as in 98%) perfect in many, many situations (granted I'm in to my second week with the thing, I'm not saying its Bogner or Diezel sims are the same sounding as my Bogner and Diezel real rigs, but man, this thing sounds incredibly GOOD!!). I didn't buy it for the amp sims though, just FX, and at that, it has thus far kicked all kinds of ass. But for sims, I can't say I've ever been witness to something so incredible sounding and parametrically adjustable. The thing goes f'n DEEP!!

This coming from a die-hard Eventide fanboi...

Man Hugs,
V.

 

[PBGas]

Everyone has an opinion. Close one's eyes and try to tell the difference or even try live. It's funny when a friend who is a tube snob picked my 11R as being the real thing. I had his newer Dual Rec for a week and dialed my 11R to match it. It's amazing how everyone forgets how EQing things is what makes all the difference.

Running it through the effects loop of an amp is not the way to run this thing. Use a full range power monitor with a 15" driver and it works amazingly well. The cab and mic simulations are meant to be used, not turned off.

I recently sold my Diezel Herbert and cab because quite frankly this 2U orange box is great and with the upcoming expansion update, a few more eyebrows are going to be raised, no doubt. Part of that reasoning is that I'm not playing live as much any longer and have no need for a 180 watt powerhouse when all the tone I need is in the box....that coupled with the fact that I've made some very good coin this year working on the side for a large animation company and it wasn't my Diezel that copped the tones needed but my 11R.....so much so that the studio I was contracted to do the recording at bought one as well.

Again, I love tube amps and have owned some of best ones over the years. But at this point in what I do, the only reason to have something like that sitting around my house is for a show piece. Some folks like to flex that sort of thing. If that is your "thing", there is nothing wrong with that. It's your hobby. I have a different view on the subject in that I like to use everything I have for a purpose other than widdling at home.

Do I miss the Herbert already, for sure. It was a stunning amp....I better update my sig now that it is gone.

Again, it's all opinion and nothing more but calling that box a piece of crap sounds like someone either didn't take the time to learn it or had a bad experience with it. I did the same thing when I tried the Mark V amp the first time. It was like...what the hell is this? Then...I rented one for a couple of weeks and found that I really loved the amp even more than my Herbert.

If you are happy with what you have, then you have found what you like. I know I have!

 

[Ventura]

Everyone has an opinion....

But at this point in what I do, the only reason to have something like that sitting around my house is for a show piece. Some folks like to flex that sort of thing. If that is your "thing", there is nothing wrong with that. It's your hobby. I have a different view on the subject in that I like to use everything I have for a purpose other than widdling at home.

If you are happy with what you have, then you have found what you like. I know I have!

Perfectly said, especially the bit about big rigs being something we flex. I'm gigging barely at all nowadays, I'm just too busy. I want to play, record, send my tunes to my fellow musicians to have them do their part, and just make music. I'm finding my firebreathers are beautiful, toneful, gorgeous rigs - but that's all visual, innit?!?!? My wife asked me why I was pondering selling some of my big rigs, as she said "well, can you buy them again or is this a major loss if ever you want another one??", interesting, I can get anything I want again - but for right now - I know my rig and I know what I'm using, and it's my Mak4 rig and my Ultra. So it goes.

Peace & Opinions Respected,
V.

 

[PBGas]

Everyone has an opinion....

But at this point in what I do, the only reason to have something like that sitting around my house is for a show piece. Some folks like to flex that sort of thing. If that is your "thing", there is nothing wrong with that. It's your hobby. I have a different view on the subject in that I like to use everything I have for a purpose other than widdling at home.

If you are happy with what you have, then you have found what you like. I know I have!

Perfectly said, especially the bit about big rigs being something we flex. I'm gigging barely at all nowadays, I'm just too busy. I want to play, record, send my tunes to my fellow musicians to have them do their part, and just make music. I'm finding my firebreathers are beautiful, toneful, gorgeous rigs - but that's all visual, innit?!?!? My wife asked me why I was pondering selling some of my big rigs, as she said "well, can you buy them again or is this a major loss if ever you want another one??", interesting, I can get anything I want again - but for right now - I know my rig and I know what I'm using, and it's my Mak4 rig and my Ultra. So it goes.

Peace & Opinions Respected,
V.

Amen Bro....if it works and you are working it, then that be it!!!
The problem with me is that I'm still trying to find out why I really "NEED" a fourth Ibanez J Custom which will be on the way shortly......

......just can't get enough of a beautiful thing. I figure I have gold, black, purple....finish the deal off with red.
As I told my lovely wife, It'll be my last guitar....honestly!

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I know my rig and I know what I'm using

Yes, that's what has kept me on my Roland vs for so many years. I can work fast and get great results...but it is time to join the rest of the recording world.

The Eleven is attractive due to the layout- it looks intuitive with amp like controls. 1 knock on the Fractal is programming buttons, it reminds me of why I ditched my racks 10 years ago and went to a traditional amp setup. Another obvious drawback is the price.


I don't need Eleven to do anything great-hopefully:

decent ADA- at least on par or it should be above my vs2480 (?) ADA is a bit overrated anyway, I heard a $200Behringer vs 4k Unit blind shootouts on Gearslutz- me and many others couldn't hear any difference or picked Behringer.

Usable DI sounds: for late night jamming inspiration

Cab/Mic Sims: so I can enjoy my MTS amps DI to headphones

Cool FX: to put in my amp loop for live rig (not a big priority, just icing on the cake)


While I still consider a dedicated interface an option, I lean towards snagging the Eleven. It seems like a great fit for me: headphones, reamp, ProTools. Now that I'm seeing some people ditch respected amps for the 11, I'm sure it has to be at least serviceable...and I love that there is no taxing on the cpu with the external processing

I spent some cash on other things, but this may conclude within a week or so- then I can give some personal reviews/clips

Thanks for all the responses and allowing me think/type out loud.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

ok, I just spent the last 2 hours watching/reading. The new expansion pack looks promising: speaker breakup, new Amps.....I think this will work for me and my plans to use my Metal to take over the world

 

[Bevosss]

decent ADA- at least on par or it should be above my vs2480 (?) ADA is a bit overrated anyway, I heard a $200Behringer vs 4k Unit blind shootouts on Gearslutz- me and many others couldn't hear any difference or picked Behringer.

Like using crappy mic preamps, this usually has a cumulative effect the more tracks you add (but to a lesser degree than pres). I didn't hear the test, but I'm assuming it's track vs track, not a whole mix.

There is a level of diminishing gains for sure, I'm very happy with my Fireface 800 convertors for instance, and I have heard mixes compared to much more expensive units that competed fine. I have no idea of the Elevens convertor quality though, but personally I'd be more concerned with the D.I. and preamp quality.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I didn't hear the test, but I'm assuming it's track vs track, not a whole mix.

It is a whole mix, but not tracked, rather run through afterwards...still, very interesting:
Lynx Aurora 16 vs Behringer ADA8000
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear...5267-lynx-aurora-16-vs-behringer-ada8000.html

 

[muudrock]

Been using the 11R since they came out. It is a great tool for recording, home jamming and gigging. I've used it live with good to great results with a tube power amp, SS power amp and FRFR into powered monitor.
I also use it with my Egnater M4 preamp--recording direct using the speaker/mic sims and live in the same way direct to FOH. Works perfect for me in all these scenarios.
As a standalone preamp feeding a tube amp, It holds it's own but I prefer the M4.

The expansion pack is a nice addition and from my 1 day playing with the new stuff, I'm impressed. All of the additions sound really good and improved the box.

Having owned the Axe Ultra as well along side the 11R, the amp sims are no "better" in the axe (to my ears). If anything, they sound to me more "idealized" as opposed to those in the 11R which seem to be more true to life--warts and all--of the actual amp. The FX capabilities in the Axe are way better but the FX in the 11R sound excellent as well--just not as many, as deep or as tweakable.

The interface on the 11R is good, and the MIC pre is good. Neither is top tier quality, but then you're not paying for that in this box in this price range. Add all of this together and the 11R is great tool that isn't too expensive for what you get.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Thanks Mud, that helps to get a Modular opinion

 

[crankyrayhanky]

update: 11R ordered will arrive Tuesday

worst case scenario? I finally get some pro tools experience and flip the 11R
Best case: a multitude of applications that help me create music, that's what it's all about

 

[dulrich1227]

I think you will fall into the bestcase ... I just plugged mine in ordered a few weeks ago and has been sitting in the box ... (have a herbert as well) its perfect as mentioned in an above thread..... gret for praticing late night, great interface, good / solid effects.. I picked up a GC pro as well - still trying to figure that out but in time... lol I also picked up some KRK6's plugged em into the 11r its a thumbs up in my opinion ...

 

[crankyrayhanky]

http://www.clinesmind.net/fr_home.cfm

This was the deciding factor^^these clips sound right up my alley

 

[robertkoa]

*I have some Randall mts modules modded; tones I love.
*I need an audio interface with trs, spdif, and midi connections
*I need to be able to play with headphones
*My computers are ok, but could use an updating (they're about 2-3 years old)

option #1: I could get a cheap interface; in order to get all of the above (trs, spdif, and midi), I'm looking at $200.

I fear between my cpu, the OS, the DAW, the interface, and the cab IRs, I may have time consuming issues. I've read many stories where things don't jive, leaving you screwed unless you buy a new cpu, different DAW, etc.

This leads me to Rack 11. I've been anti-Guitar Sim for a long time, but this may be my answer. I imagine the ADA is at least on par if not better than most of the sub $500 units I've looked at. How about the cab sims? Decent? I imagine not as great as RedWire or whatever is the hot program....If I could go mts>Eleven cab sims and get a great tone, the rest of the unit would be gravy for me.

I've looked at Fractal, but between the high price and the layout (little scrolling parameter buttons), I'm not thrilled.

Keep in mind, fancy swirling fx are only somewhat fun to me; I just seek a decent, straight forward, no frills Hard Rock/Metal tone that slays. I'll still be able to mic up my cabs from time to time (reamp), but I need to be able to lay down some quality tracks with a tone that is somewhat inspirational.

FYI: I found a place where I can get an 11 for $650 new

Any advice appreciated! I've been surfing for awhile on this one

I'm with you on this one - I like Cab Sims and Cab IRs so far for practice and recording BUT with tube input from a preamp ( ADA MP1, etc. ) or loaded down Amp .

So I'm looking for something cheaper than Axe Fx that has the same quality IRs and preferably downloadable IRs - admittedly if I get an Axe Fx I'd probably use some of it's amp models as well.


I'd prefer to have something like 11R that can do the IRs- and I've heard the IRs in the new Pods are not it's strong point.


So did the new downloadable model packs for 11 R include mew Cabinet IRs and how are they in general ?