Rack Setup - 2 amps, effect pedals, g-force, etc (need help)

[The Hoff]

I've never done anything like this before. I know what I want to be able to do but I need some clarification/suggestions.

End goal:
-2 amps/effects/etc all being midi switched
-Controlled by a Ground Control Pro (or something similar)
-Stomp Box effects in front of the amps
-G-Force II in the loop of the amps
-ProRackG in the loop of amps and in front of
-In front (on floor with ground controll Wah, Tuner, 2 expression pedals (for the g-force)

So this is what I've come up with:
-One of the amps isn't midi capable so I'll use a mini amp gizmo in order to make it so
-2 amps running into a radial jx44
-using the effects loop of jx44 to run: g-force, ProRackG
-not sure exactly how it works but I read that it is possible (special cable..? use an effects gizmo to make the jx44 midi capable.
-have stompbox pedals as well the other loop of the prorackg in front of amp via the loops of a rjm effects gizmo

Uncertainties:
-Will this allow me to switch channels via the ground control for the amps?

So yeah, any clarifications or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm not in a hurry to get this done and I want to do it right. I have found the two amps that give me all the tones I want and am ready to settle down on a rig with them.

 

[peterc52]

I can't answer your questions, but i'm curious on which amps your using?

The Surreal and ?

 

[steve_k]

Ryan,

That's a lot of hardware to control the kit. You can use a Voodoo GCX to do all that and control with a GC Pro. You can run 2 amps out of the GCX in A/B ot Y and also use it for control functions for channel changing the non-Midi amp. If you got piles of pedals though, you may need more than one. You get 8 functions on the GCX. You should be able to do the same with an RJM Rack Gizmo.

Steve

 

[jcj]

Call Friedman....that's going to be a cluster fuck if you do it on your own.

 

[jlbaxe]

Ok,
The RJM amp gizmo has 2 amp control cable outs. The only thing is if you use both amps at the same time they will be on the same channel. If you only use 1 amp at a time it won't matter or if you use the RJM amp cable and Midi you will be able to have each amp switched on different channels at the same time.

There is more flexibility in the RJM than the GCX. The GCX needs each loop connected with a patch cable, pain in the ass. The RJM is internal except the last couple loops. RJM has a better buffer,Tuner out and you won't need the mini amp gizmo. You also do not have to go into the GCP to program the RJM, select effects and amp settings on the front panel and just push the "write" button for 3 seconds and you are done. Support is better with Ron actually getting on the phone with you. Stock the unit has the first 4 loops stereo using a TRS cable.

So use the RJM effects Gizmo for amp control and effects. If you need to walk back to your rack and add or delete an effect on the fly it is all done on the RJM and not inside the GCP.

If the JX44 is controlled with 1/4 jacks (Latching?) you can use the last 8 loops for that also.

 

[cujo]

Yeah the Rjm stuff is it! I use the rg16 which is now the gizmo. I've used 2 amps. Diff channels. Pedals in loop n pedals up front. Basically I put my pedals before the head. N delay each head had its own delay pedal. Also tried the gmajor2 ditched it due to switching lag. Herbert had midi so it was on its own w delay also switchable due to midi loop switchable. Mesa I used the rg16 to control the ch n loop. Very simple. Go to his website their is videos u can watch how the stuff works. Easy!

 

[rcm78]

RJM Rack Gizmo!!!

 

[jlbaxe]

The cost of the Mini amp gizmo and GCX is close to the RJM amp gizmo. fwiw

 

[The Hoff]

I can't answer your questions, but i'm curious on which amps your using?

The Surreal and ?

The Surreal AKA and a Diezel VH4

Ryan,

That's a lot of hardware to control the kit. You can use a Voodoo GCX to do all that and control with a GC Pro. You can run 2 amps out of the GCX in A/B ot Y and also use it for control functions for channel changing the non-Midi amp. If you got piles of pedals though, you may need more than one. You get 8 functions on the GCX. You should be able to do the same with an RJM Rack Gizmo.

Steve

I am open to either way. I've just heard great things about the effects gizmo. With the GCX I can still change channels on the individual amp? I wouldn't ever need to "Y" them, as long as I can "A/B" them as well as channel switch within them and be able to accomplish this via a single stomp on the GC Pro this sounds like a great way.

The only thing is-I do want the jx44 in order to be able to use its effects loop so that the g-force can be used with either amp and I know the effects gizmo is compatible with it-just not sure how, I believe I either need a special cable or I run the effects gizmo through the effects loop of the jx44.

Thanks for the help Steve!

Ok,
The RJM amp gizmo has 2 amp control cable outs. The only thing is if you use both amps at the same time they will be on the same channel. If you only use 1 amp at a time it won't matter or if you use the RJM amp cable and Midi you will be able to have each amp switched on different channels at the same time.

There is more flexibility in the RJM than the GCX. The GCX needs each loop connected with a patch cable, pain in the ass. The RJM is internal except the last couple loops. RJM has a better buffer,Tuner out and you won't need the mini amp gizmo. You also do not have to go into the GCP to program the RJM, select effects and amp settings on the front panel and just push the "write" button for 3 seconds and you are done. Support is better with Ron actually getting on the phone with you. Stock the unit has the first 4 loops stereo using a TRS cable.

So use the RJM effects Gizmo for amp control and effects. If you need to walk back to your rack and add or delete an effect on the fly it is all done on the RJM and not inside the GCP.

If the JX44 is controlled with 1/4 jacks (Latching?) you can use the last 8 loops for that also.

Thanks for the assistance. Yeah, I won't be using the amps at the same time ever. In that case-I can simply use the two amp inputs on the RJM and still be able to switch channels on the individual amps? Then use the loops of the RJM for my pedals? That's what I'm hoping for.

I was looking at this diagram:
http://www.rjmmusic.com/wiring/EG/EG_8Pedals_2amps.pdf

I just don't think this allows you to chanel switch the individual amps, other than that it is basically what I am wanting to do. As of now I'd have 6 pedals in the loops of the RJM. The only difference is I would also want my g-force incorporated in the effects loop of both amps (so perhaps where the jx44 comes in...?)

Thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate it. I haven't ever even considered doing a midi rack system but I'm happy with my gear and am now looking to build my rig around them.

 

[The Hoff]

Yeah the Rjm stuff is it! I use the rg16 which is now the gizmo. I've used 2 amps. Diff channels. Pedals in loop n pedals up front. Basically I put my pedals before the head. N delay each head had its own delay pedal. Also tried the gmajor2 ditched it due to switching lag. Herbert had midi so it was on its own w delay also switchable due to midi loop switchable. Mesa I used the rg16 to control the ch n loop. Very simple. Go to his website their is videos u can watch how the stuff works. Easy!

Thanks for the help. I'm going to do some more reading up on it. I basically wanted to make sure I headed on the right track with the right ideas. Seems like I am. One of my amps is going to be a Diezel VH4 so I will be doing something very similar to you. The only difference is I'd like to have my amps share the effects in the loop-I am hoping that the jx44 will allow me to do this.

As for the g-force II lag, that is a bummer. How apparent is it? That's just unacceptable.

 

[The Hoff]

Call Friedman....that's going to be a cluster fuck if you do it on your own.

It might just come down to that but I'd like to try and do it myself first.

 

[steve_k]

Call Friedman....that's going to be a cluster fuck if you do it on your own.

It might just come down to that but I'd like to try and do it myself first.

Download the Rack Gizmo and the GCX manuals off their representative websites. They both give example rig ups.

And, if you email Ron Minelli at RJM, tell him what you have, what you want to do, he will advise you without any bullshit.

Also, as Josh said, you are right in Friedman's backyard. Take him the pile of stuff and let him have at it! Meanwhile, you will be home playing rather than looking for hums, buzz, etc. Also, be aware that if you run those amps together and start changing channels, you are going to run into some serious phasing issues that will sound like ass! Dave can also work in some extra transformer isolation. The GCX and RJM both can have their issues with ground hum to sort out.

Steve

 

[GuitarGoat]

This sounds very similar to my setup I've got running now. I use two GCXs to control my effects and my amp switching though instead of the RJM. I'm sure either one is fine for doing it, with the RJM being a bit better in some respects. Are you planning on getting the stereo modded ISP? That's what I use so the input channel is mono (where you plug your guitar into) and then the two Decimator sections are stereo so one is in each effects loop. I use one amp wet and one dry with some of the effects being stereo (like the Decimator and a tremolo pedal). Am I understanding correctly that you will just use one head at a time?

 

[jlbaxe]

Yeah I ment Rack Gizmo. It has 2 amp out controls and all you would need is the right amp cables.
http://www.rjmmusic.com/rackgizmo.php

 

[jcj]

Call Friedman....that's going to be a cluster fuck if you do it on your own.

It might just come down to that but I'd like to try and do it myself first.

Download the Rack Gizmo and the GCX manuals off their representative websites. They both give example rig ups.

And, if you email Ron Minelli at RJM, tell him what you have, what you want to do, he will advise you without any bullshit.

Also, as Josh said, you are right in Friedman's backyard. Take him the pile of stuff and let him have at it! Meanwhile, you will be home playing rather than looking for hums, buzz, etc. Also, be aware that if you run those amps together and start changing channels, you are going to run into some serious phasing issues that will sound like ass! Dave can also work in some extra transformer isolation. The GCX and RJM both can have their issues with ground hum to sort out.

Steve

What Steve said it what I was what I referring to...wasn't implying you were an idiot or anything

 

[The Hoff]

This sounds very similar to my setup I've got running now. I use two GCXs to control my effects and my amp switching though instead of the RJM. I'm sure either one is fine for doing it, with the RJM being a bit better in some respects. Are you planning on getting the stereo modded ISP? That's what I use so the input channel is mono (where you plug your guitar into) and then the two Decimator sections are stereo so one is in each effects loop. I use one amp wet and one dry with some of the effects being stereo (like the Decimator and a tremolo pedal). Am I understanding correctly that you will just use one head at a time?

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I am planning on doing. And indeed, I won't be using the heads at the same time. I was thinking about that as well, having two RJMs.

 

[The Hoff]

Call Friedman....that's going to be a cluster fuck if you do it on your own.

It might just come down to that but I'd like to try and do it myself first.

Download the Rack Gizmo and the GCX manuals off their representative websites. They both give example rig ups.

And, if you email Ron Minelli at RJM, tell him what you have, what you want to do, he will advise you without any bullshit.

Also, as Josh said, you are right in Friedman's backyard. Take him the pile of stuff and let him have at it! Meanwhile, you will be home playing rather than looking for hums, buzz, etc. Also, be aware that if you run those amps together and start changing channels, you are going to run into some serious phasing issues that will sound like ass! Dave can also work in some extra transformer isolation. The GCX and RJM both can have their issues with ground hum to sort out.

Steve

What Steve said it what I was what I referring to...wasn't implying you were an idiot or anything

No worries. Didn't take it like that at all. Having Friedman nearby is an advantage, one I should probably take advantage of-I just want to try and do it myself first.

 

[steve_k]

Call Friedman....that's going to be a cluster fuck if you do it on your own.

It might just come down to that but I'd like to try and do it myself first.

Download the Rack Gizmo and the GCX manuals off their representative websites. They both give example rig ups.

And, if you email Ron Minelli at RJM, tell him what you have, what you want to do, he will advise you without any bullshit.

Also, as Josh said, you are right in Friedman's backyard. Take him the pile of stuff and let him have at it! Meanwhile, you will be home playing rather than looking for hums, buzz, etc. Also, be aware that if you run those amps together and start changing channels, you are going to run into some serious phasing issues that will sound like ass! Dave can also work in some extra transformer isolation. The GCX and RJM both can have their issues with ground hum to sort out.

Steve

What Steve said it what I was what I referring to...wasn't implying you were an idiot or anything

No worries. Didn't take it like that at all. Having Friedman nearby is an advantage, one I should probably take advantage of-I just want to try and do it myself first.

If I lived around there, I would damn sure have Dave doing my board/rack. It would be money well spent, unless you just have insane amounts of time on your hands. A rack for me was always a work in progress until the point where I just said fuck it and the MIDI too! I was going to send pedals/rack components back from over here for him to do a board/rack, but shipping the stuff is too cost prohibitive.

Steve

 

[jlbaxe]

I enjoy building my racks. It is as much my hobby as playing guitar. But then again I am a builder so I guess it is in my blood Its kinda cool when you get it done to power it up, stand back and play through it, having known you did it all.

If I did play out I would want to know it inside and out incase there was a problem, unless I had a tech on the road with me.

Starting with the input signal and working to the amp out isn't so difficult to me. Haven't had any ground loop issues either with any of my setups, guess I have been lucky.

 

[The Hoff]

I enjoy building my racks. It is as much my hobby as playing guitar. But then again I am a builder so I guess it is in my blood Its kinda cool when you get it done to power it up, stand back and play through it, having known you did it all.

If I did play out I would want to know it inside and out incase there was a problem, unless I had a tech on the road with me.

Starting with the input signal and working to the amp out isn't so difficult to me. Haven't had any ground loop issues either with any of my setups, guess I have been lucky.

Yeah, for those reasons I want to at least try and do it myself first. I'd simply like to know how to do it for the knowledge.