Rebel 30 .. how reliable ???

BGG

Member
Hi guys,
Going back to small bar gigs and a smaller car so gonna downsize my rig.

Quite fancy a Rebel 30 head and two 1x12's but having spent a couple of hours on Google last night seems like everyone agrees these amps sound great but come with tons of reliability/tube issues ?
A lot of folk on forums are onto there 3rd and 4th amps still with problems and there's a helluva lot up for sale ??

Any thoughts guys ??


Ains
 
I wouldn't know for sure, but in this sort of thing you have to keep some perspective.

I assume they have sold thousands of those things, maybe tens of thousands.

People who have problems tend to post more then people who don't because they want a solution. Think about how many people there must be who bought a Rebel 30. love it, have no significant problems, so they don't post about it.

A lot of people on this board also rave about the Rebel 30.

My two cents worth.

:confused: :rock:
 
I am one of those that absolutely love the sound of it and have had no problems whatsoever!
I bought the R30 Head and 112X cab one month ago. Fantastic sounding amp and at a great price as well. :thumbsup:
 
I think most the problems that people complain about are tube related. I think I read somewhere that Mr. Egnater said that about ninety percent of their returns were for tube issues. Tubes just don't make it through the shipping process all the time and a lot of people complain about their new amps without having checked the tubes.

I consider tubes to be expendible, like tires and oil and gas. I keep extras on hand. I don't have any problem with getting a new amp and having it arrive with a bad tube. It's like getting a flat tire on a new bike. You don't hate your new bike, you fix the tire. Egnater will gladly replace any tubes that don't arrive o.k.

I guess all you can do is try to figure out if the guys who are complaining about quality are really talking about tubes. My experience with this forum is that most of the people who complain that their new amp is messed up really have simple tube problems.
 
Cheers guy, tube issues i can live with, they are easily replaced ;) hope to make a drop on one soon :)
 
Yo Ainsley! Fancy seeing you here :)

I've been using a Rebel 30 head/cab with my new original band, and it sounds incredible!
Reliability hasn't been what I would have expected, but given the price/portability and tone, I'm still really happy about my decision.
 
dan desy":1m1n4s5w said:
Yo Ainsley! Fancy seeing you here :)

I've been using a Rebel 30 head/cab with my new original band, and it sounds incredible!
Reliability hasn't been what I would have expected, but given the price/portability and tone, I'm still really happy about my decision.


Hello mate, how's it going ?
Gonna try one this week as I never got the chance at the weekend, I can live with the tube problems if it's a case of replacing the shipped ones with better ones.
Glad you enjoying your mate :)

Ains
 
I have a Rebel 30 head. It blew the 315mA fast blow fuse. I have about five to six hours on the tubes -- one gig at low volume, and a couple of hours in the basement.

My friend who has the combo version, bought on my recommendation from a different source, and he had his blow twice -- two separate gigs -- right in the middle of a set. The very fact that this topic exists is in itself evidence this problem is not isolated, and is likely much more common than they care to admit.

Look, I have a basement full of tube amps. I've blackfaced my own Twin Reverb chassis, and I've built a JTM45 from Metro. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I've been playing for over 40 years too, and I've never, ever had this sort of issue.

If it is the tubes as they say, then those tubes, sourced by Egnater and bought and paid for by me at markup, are not of sufficient quality to be sold with that amp. But before I put in new ones, I simply wanted some assurance that those new tubes wouldn't be harmed.

To get an answer, I've been in touch with what they call "customer service." Every effort I've made to get some assurance there is not some congenital design flaw has been intercepted by an individual who has done nothing but stonewall my inquiry.

I asked for an explanation from that appointed rep, and all I got is a terse line that "it's the tubes." Well, I'm sorry, I need to know why tubes with under ten hours on them have failed. I don't think that's an unreasonable question, since I'm still using power tubes from 1973.

I told them that I'm not alone in having this problem which points to something other than an isolated misfit tube - that made no difference to him. I've asked for a contact who can answer my questions and that's been ignored. I gave him my phone number to give to someone to call me, and that's been ignored. I've read of some sending their amps back for a refund -- no such offer was extended to me.

So they have taken a situation in which I was understandably disappointed and, by their own actions, they've turned my disappointment into full-on anger. I've been going round and round on this for weeks.

This is not my fault. I love the tone of the amp. I want to keep it. I told them so, but no matter.

I can't gig with it. I can't rely on it. And I can't afford to pay for an amp I can't rely on, and I'm not going to feed it tubes. I can't afford that either. Neither can my friend, for whom I put my own reputation on the line recommending this amp only to have him suffer the same fate, except in his case, he had to bear the embarrassment of it happening during a set. Twice.

Can you imagine a manual that suggests the user carry not only fuses, but spare power tubes to every gig? Like I'm gonna take time in the middle of a set and swap tubes? Never. Not gonna happen. That's a non-starter. Had I known that before purchasing, I'd have never done it.

I find it interesting that the artwork in the manual shows a 250 mA fuse, not a 315. Did they up the rating because it was blowing all the time? I have no idea.

You see, I have questions that aren't off the wall, they're pertinent, and the guy they have answering emails will not help me to get those questions answered, nor offer me any solution whatsoever except that I should eat the cost of retubing this thing every time tubes go bad.

There's an online chat tomorrow with Mr. Egnater. I hope to get some answers, unfiltered, from the source. If I do, I'll post them here. Based solely on their lack of responsiveness, I'm starting to think this problem is growing out of their reach to handle, and they're desperately trying to dissuade customers from demanding that the amp they paid good money for work as promised.

Well, I'm not eating this one, not this time. Their so-called "customer service" has made me more determined than ever to get satisfaction.

Duane
 
Things is I've bought amps for over thirty years and had bliddy loads I can telly you and them shipped form all over the UK and the world.
And I've never had tube problems like are reported on these amps, and if it's cheap tubes ...... replace them, use a different supplier at the factory why put the extra price on the customer and damage the company reputation ???

I'm still very undecided : (
 
BGG":3atei8w8 said:
....And I've never had tube problems like are reported on these amps, and if it's cheap tubes ...... replace them, use a different supplier at the factory why put the extra price on the customer and damage the company reputation ???

I'm still very undecided : (

That's exactly what I don't understand. This is killing the Egnater brand. The cost of rehabilitating Mr. Egnater's good name will do nothing but go up. Too many have reported problems to sweep this under the rug.

If the sourced tubes are failing a lot, choose tubes that aren't having infant mortality issues. Problem solved. The fact this hasn't been done begs the question, "why??" Why continue to put one's reputation at risk over a cheap tube? Could it be that a more expensive tube awaits the same fate, and that it has nothing to do with the chosen tube at all? I hope Mr. Egnater will forgive me, but I think that's a logical question to ask.

That's why I'm just not willing to slap in a whole new set of tubes. Before I do that, I'd like to have some confidence that I'm not taking another hundred dollar bill and standing on the corner and lighting it afire just to watch it burn.

If I put new tubes in and the problem is solved, I'll be the happiest guy on the block because there's nothing I'd like better than to be able to rely on that amp. I love it, except for this. This, however, is a non-starter.

I take no pleasure whatsoever in posting all this, but I don't want to see others have the same experiences I did so far.

Duane
 
Duane":1k1q9qxa said:
That's exactly what I don't understand. This is killing the Egnater brand. The cost of rehabilitating Mr. Egnater's good name will do nothing but go up. Too many have reported problems to sweep this under the rug.

If the sourced tubes are failing a lot, choose tubes that aren't having infant mortality issues. Problem solved. The fact this hasn't been done begs the question, "why??" Why continue to put one's reputation at risk over a cheap tube? Could it be that a more expensive tube awaits the same fate, and that it has nothing to do with the chosen tube at all? I hope Mr. Egnater will forgive me, but I think that's a logical question to ask.

That's why I'm just not willing to slap in a whole new set of tubes. Before I do that, I'd like to have some confidence that I'm not taking another hundred dollar bill and standing on the corner and lighting it afire just to watch it burn.

If I put new tubes in and the problem is solved, I'll be the happiest guy on the block because there's nothing I'd like better than to be able to rely on that amp. I love it, except for this. This, however, is a non-starter.

I take no pleasure whatsoever in posting all this, but I don't want to see others have the same experiences I did so far.

Duane
Not sure if this would help or not, but it might be worth asking Mr. Egnater about in the live chat:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=9352493&postcount=13
 
Duane":sju1m7yf said:
I have a Rebel 30 head. It blew the 315mA fast blow fuse. I have about five to six hours on the tubes -- one gig at low volume, and a couple of hours in the basement.

My friend who has the combo version, bought on my recommendation from a different source, and he had his blow twice -- two separate gigs -- right in the middle of a set. The very fact that this topic exists is in itself evidence this problem is not isolated, and is likely much more common than they care to admit.

Look, I have a basement full of tube amps. I've blackfaced my own Twin Reverb chassis, and I've built a JTM45 from Metro. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I've been playing for over 40 years too, and I've never, ever had this sort of issue.

If it is the tubes as they say, then those tubes, sourced by Egnater and bought and paid for by me at markup, are not of sufficient quality to be sold with that amp. But before I put in new ones, I simply wanted some assurance that those new tubes wouldn't be harmed.

To get an answer, I've been in touch with what they call "customer service." Every effort I've made to get some assurance there is not some congenital design flaw has been intercepted by an individual who has done nothing but stonewall my inquiry.

I asked for an explanation from that appointed rep, and all I got is a terse line that "it's the tubes." Well, I'm sorry, I need to know why tubes with under ten hours on them have failed. I don't think that's an unreasonable question, since I'm still using power tubes from 1973.

I told them that I'm not alone in having this problem which points to something other than an isolated misfit tube - that made no difference to him. I've asked for a contact who can answer my questions and that's been ignored. I gave him my phone number to give to someone to call me, and that's been ignored. I've read of some sending their amps back for a refund -- no such offer was extended to me.

So they have taken a situation in which I was understandably disappointed and, by their own actions, they've turned my disappointment into full-on anger. I've been going round and round on this for weeks.

This is not my fault. I love the tone of the amp. I want to keep it. I told them so, but no matter.

I can't gig with it. I can't rely on it. And I can't afford to pay for an amp I can't rely on, and I'm not going to feed it tubes. I can't afford that either. Neither can my friend, for whom I put my own reputation on the line recommending this amp only to have him suffer the same fate, except in his case, he had to bear the embarrassment of it happening during a set. Twice.

Can you imagine a manual that suggests the user carry not only fuses, but spare power tubes to every gig? Like I'm gonna take time in the middle of a set and swap tubes? Never. Not gonna happen. That's a non-starter. Had I known that before purchasing, I'd have never done it.

I find it interesting that the artwork in the manual shows a 250 mA fuse, not a 315. Did they up the rating because it was blowing all the time? I have no idea.

You see, I have questions that aren't off the wall, they're pertinent, and the guy they have answering emails will not help me to get those questions answered, nor offer me any solution whatsoever except that I should eat the cost of retubing this thing every time tubes go bad.

There's an online chat tomorrow with Mr. Egnater. I hope to get some answers, unfiltered, from the source. If I do, I'll post them here. Based solely on their lack of responsiveness, I'm starting to think this problem is growing out of their reach to handle, and they're desperately trying to dissuade customers from demanding that the amp they paid good money for work as promised.

Well, I'm not eating this one, not this time. Their so-called "customer service" has made me more determined than ever to get satisfaction.

Duane

Two things - I have had pretty good luck with my Egnater amps. But I am 54 years old and I am accustomed to a certain level of customer service. I won't mention any names, but there are a couple of gatekeeper types at Egnater who take the customer service calls and my experience with them was absolutely unacceptable. Both of them are snotty kids who are not well suited to representing Mr. Egnater's company. They make sure you are mildly aggravated. My advice to Mr. Egnater is to let both of these guys go. You know who they are.

The other thing is, Duane - you have a 'tude that's keeping you from getting what you want. Can't you figure out what tubes are bad and just deal with the issue without all the BS?

Between you and the kids at Egnater - sheesh!!
 
BadBluesPlayer":gal41e54 said:
Two things - I have had pretty good luck with my Egnater amps. But I am 54 years old and I am accustomed to a certain level of customer service. I won't mention any names, but there are a couple of gatekeeper types at Egnater who take the customer service calls and my experience with them was absolutely unacceptable. Both of them are snotty kids who are not well suited to representing Mr. Egnater's company. They make sure you are mildly aggravated. My advice to Mr. Egnater is to let both of these guys go. You know who they are.

The other thing is, Duane - you have a 'tude that's keeping you from getting what you want. Can't you figure out what tubes are bad and just deal with the issue without all the BS?

Between you and the kids at Egnater - sheesh!!

The suggestion that my " 'tude" is what's keeping me from getting what I want is one hundred percent misguided. I'm not sure you even understand what I want, so I don't know how you can even venture such an assessment.

You ask: can't I figure out what tubes are bad and deal with it? In point of fact, no, I cannot. Why? Because before I put new tubes in it, I need someone to assure me that they won't meet the same fate. I have a complete set of new power tubes, all ready to go, paid for out of my own pocket. But when a user's manual recommends carrying not only fuses but also spare power tubes to a gig, that tells me that power tube failure is a common expectation in this amp design. I'd like to know why before I start in swapping tubes, because while fuses are cheap, tubes are not.

If you consider that a bad attitude, well, so be it. But I'm still paying this amp off -- I can't afford to feed it tubes also. Not only that, but I do expect the tubes I paid for in the amp to work. Those tubes weren't provided free of charge - I paid for those tubes. I'm still using power tubes I bought from Fender back in 1973, not that I expect all tubes to last that long, but certainly not to fail in under ten hours. Sheesh right back at'cha!

All I've been after is someone who knows what they're talking about to discuss my concerns. By contrast, when my ZenDrive came and didn't work, Alfonso Hermida himself was on the phone to me the very next day. I didn't ask for that call -- he did it of his own volition because he was concerned that I was dissatisfied. Again, it's not that I expect that kind of treatment from everyone, but I don't expect my reasonable inquiries to be stonewalled, either. In fact, I specifically sought a contact other than Mr. Egnater out of respect for his personal time. That was ignored. I sent my phone number so perhaps someone might call. That was also ignored. So when you seek to blame me, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

No, what's keeping me from getting what I want is not my attitude. It is the customer service representative that has been hired by that corporation. I didn't make that hiring decision, and any attitude I'm displaying is a direct result of that decision. Anyone who shares my problem will have to encounter that same individual, so I believe expressing my frustration here is useful to others. And no, unlike you seem to be doing, I don't make excuses for the inexcusable. If that makes me some sort of bad guy, well, so be it.

I'm sure Mr. Egnater will be much more responsive to me than his employee, who evidently doesn't even understand how he gets a paycheck. So I'm looking forward to starting with a clean slate with him personally. My questions are ready to go, and I fully expect to be delighted with the encounter and more importantly, its results. I'll post those results here. If my " 'tude" is improved as I fully expect it will be, I'll be sure to not hide it, either.
 
Duane":23mu17o0 said:
BadBluesPlayer":23mu17o0 said:
Two things - I have had pretty good luck with my Egnater amps. But I am 54 years old and I am accustomed to a certain level of customer service. I won't mention any names, but there are a couple of gatekeeper types at Egnater who take the customer service calls and my experience with them was absolutely unacceptable. Both of them are snotty kids who are not well suited to representing Mr. Egnater's company. They make sure you are mildly aggravated. My advice to Mr. Egnater is to let both of these guys go. You know who they are.

The other thing is, Duane - you have a 'tude that's keeping you from getting what you want. Can't you figure out what tubes are bad and just deal with the issue without all the BS?

Between you and the kids at Egnater - sheesh!!

You ask: can't I figure out what tubes are bad and deal with it? In point of fact, no, I cannot. Why? Because before I put new tubes in it, I need someone to assure me that they won't meet the same fate. I have a complete set of new power tubes, all ready to go, paid for out of my own pocket. But when a user's manual recommends carrying not only fuses but also spare power tubes to a gig, that tells me that power tube failure is a common expectation in this amp design. I'd like to know why before I start in swapping tubes, because while fuses are cheap, tubes are not.

YEP ... nail on head, that's what is stopping me from getting one :(
 
I don't doubt anybody's problems here but I'd like to point out that tubes being made now are definitely not equal to those being made in the 50s- early 70s. Up to a certain point in time everything electronic had tubes - your radio, TV, stereo, etc. The grocery store had a tube tester for goodness sake! Those tubes were made in huge numbers with strict QC. That's not the case now.

I've read that a high percentage of tubes out of china and the ex iron curtain countries - which are the only places left with tube factories - are bad/iffy right out of the factory. You need to toss a high percentage of them and the remainder are not going to last nearly as long as the old RCAs GEs Phillips etc. And about the only people who want tubes are guitar players and hi-end audio aficionados - so that tiny demand isn't going to be leading to better tubes either.

So IF new overseas Egnators are more prone to tube problems than comparable amps (like Bogner alchemist), and I don't have any idea if they are, maybe the problem is there is no screening of the chinese tubes going in these chinese Egnator amps?

FWIW the Egnator warranty does cover tube replacement but only for 90 days. That alone might give you some indication of the expected mean time between failure for the tubes that are available nowdays.

Anyhow, recommending that people bring spare tubes has been common practice for at least the last 10 years. I never considered doing it back in the 70s, but I do it now. And I'd do it regardless of what amp I was using if it was loaded with modern tubes. I've had preamp tubes get bad on me on gigs in Fender and other amps and just recently I had a TAD (which are supposed to be screened) 6L6 blow w/o any warning. And this was in a top quality 3K hand wired amp.

So regardless of how your transaction with Egnator turns out, I'd bring spare tubes nowdays even if it was for your old SF Fender, at least once you have put new tubes in it. Thats one reason the NOS stuff is selling - not just the sound but the durability.
 
Why would you not take spare tubes to a gig? You don't drive down the road without a spare tire do you?

Taking spare tubes, fuses, strings, pics and even back up amps/guitars to a gig is just good common sense.
 
Tone Loco":13pfxpic said:
I don't doubt anybody's problems here but I'd like to point out that tubes being made now are definitely not equal to those being made in the 50s- early 70s. ... I've read that a high percentage of tubes out of china and the ex iron curtain countries - which are the only places left with tube factories - are bad/iffy right out of the factory. You need to toss a high percentage of them and the remainder are not going to last nearly as long as the old RCAs GEs Phillips etc.

....

Anyhow, recommending that people bring spare tubes has been common practice for at least the last 10 years. I never considered doing it back in the 70s, but I do it now. And I'd do it regardless of what amp I was using if it was loaded with modern tubes. I've had preamp tubes get bad on me on gigs in Fender and other amps and just recently I had a TAD (which are supposed to be screened) 6L6 blow w/o any warning. And this was in a top quality 3K hand wired amp.

So regardless of how your transaction with Egnator turns out, I'd bring spare tubes nowdays even if it was for your old SF Fender, at least once you have put new tubes in it. Thats one reason the NOS stuff is selling - not just the sound but the durability.

Well said. I agree totally.

Just as another set of data in addition to the two 1970s Fenders: I have a Crate Palomino, made in Vietnam, a combo amp that cost me about half what this head did, a quad EL84. It still works with its original power tubes and I play it wide open all the time, and it's cathode biased and ran hot until I vented it better. I also use a Dr. Z MAZ-18, about six years old, a dual EL84. It still works with its original tubes. Also I use an original Fender Blues Deluxe from the early 90s...still working, original tubes. Also a recent issue Peavey Windsor with quad EL34s -- again, still working after maybe three years. Last year I put together a Metro JTM45 kit, and it still works with its Chinese KT88s, JJs if memory serves.

All these recent issue amps have well more than ten hours on them. Never has any of them failed yet. None of these manufacturers recommended carrying extra power tubes. I realize a failure can happen at any time, and past performance is no guarantee of future performance, as they say. But that's a lot of tubes that have been providing good service for many playing hours. These failed basically straight out of the box, at least I'm presuming they did -- but I still haven't determined with any certainty that a tube failure is what caused the fuse to blow, I'm just taking it on faith so far. I did notice they changed the fuse rating compared to the artwork in the manual -- the fuse is 315mA and the manual artwork says 250mA.

Do other amp manufacturers today make a specific recommendation to carry extra tubes, or is it just street savvy from experienced players? Egnater specifically recommends it, and I had never seen that before myself. If there are others, that's certainly in Egnater's favor, so that'd be good to know, thanks.

Yes, indeed, perhaps it's just down to whether these tubes need to be screened better. I'd again still have to ask why this isn't happening already given the frequency of these issues, and do still wonder if there's something peculiar about this design that makes a slightly weaker tube fail more quickly than it would otherwise. These are the questions I hope to get answered.
 
Anolin":2ln030i6 said:
Why would you not take spare tubes to a gig? You don't drive down the road without a spare tire do you?

Taking spare tubes, fuses, strings, pics and even back up amps/guitars to a gig is just good common sense.


Why not? Because I can't afford to stop playing to diagnose an amp failure. I have to be able to depend on the tools I'm using. A spare amp might make sense, but not spare tubes. Not at a job. My point is, in 40 years of playing, I've never had an amp fail on a gig. Ever.

Yes, there are always occasional failures, and some might call me lucky. But this is not "occasional." A lot of Rebel 30 customers seem to be seeing this very same problem. It begs the question as to whether the recommendation to carry tubes was because this design causes tube failure more commonly than other designs.

I'm not about to fix a problem by carrying more spare parts, any more than you'd carry multiple spare tires because the tires that came with the car are liable to blow out frequently. I want to know why we're seeing this particular problem so I can fix it for good, and end up with something I can depend on. Does that make sense?
 
Third gig I ever did in my life I had a power tube go out in my Marshall JCM 900. I was roughly 18 at the time and of course I didn't have any spare tubes with me, nor a spare amp. Until you experience that feeling of helplessness in front of a crowd, then you just won't fully understand it.

Must be nice not ever having an amp go out on you in 40 years! So yes, I dont care what brand name is on the front if my amp; I'm carrying spare tubes.
 
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