Recording questions and techniques

[Gorehog]

ok,i have a post about Suhr,CAE and its turned into a recording thread.because thats my real problemi'm a recording noonb.anything i recorded in the past i went into a studio or used a tascam 4-track.

so now,later in life i have the luxuries in my Sig.my drummer has logic 9 so we have a good setup for recording.and i am getting to know my way around logic 8.always learning.

so in the past i used a Digitech 2120 plugged into a 4 track.
moved on to Digitech gnx 3000 which i recorded into logic and the software that came w/ the digitech.
no mics needed.
now i got rid of my Snax,have no intention on getting Snax 2.i'm over it.looking into heads and/or preamp/power amp recording rig.

my first question is....
how do u get a great sound micing a cab.no need for detail.just what steps need to be taken?i don't wanna hafta record when wife/kids are out of the house due to volume needed.
is it simple as head/cab/attenuator/sm57 into duet?

or skip the cab and use cab IRs ?

or a D.I. box better?

no need for great detail,just ideas and benefits of different ways to go about it.

now i'm looking into getting a OD100se+,or a Splawn Quickrod,or CAE se+ preamp and either marshall/freyette power amp,or an Engl SE570 preamp..

thx.

 

[mboogman]

I've used guitar amp pro in logic 8, set to clean preamp, with the vintage 4x12 cab model, dynamic mic off center, and achieved really great results coming direct out of my preamp/effects send of my amp.

 

[Code001]

I just throw a mic in front of a speaker, move it until it sounds good and then record. Do a simple high pass and low pass filter, and then maybe a multiband to tame the palm mutes. I try to get away with the least amount of post processing as possible. I don't use an attenuator, and I do everything at bedroom volumes in an untreated room. Example of that:

I'm not that great, though. Hopefully some of the better guys will chime in and give you some more advice.

 

[Gorehog]

I've used guitar amp pro in logic 8, set to clean preamp, with the vintage 4x12 cab model, dynamic mic off center, and achieved really great results coming direct out of my preamp/effects send of my amp.

ha ha.y'know i have tried this.and i did get good results.gonna recoord some stuff today using this.hell maybe i'll just get guitar rig or something like that for recording.

sometimes the obvious is well,too obvious.

 

[mboogman]

I've used guitar amp pro in logic 8, set to clean preamp, with the vintage 4x12 cab model, dynamic mic off center, and achieved really great results coming direct out of my preamp/effects send of my amp.

ha ha.y'know i have tried this.and i did get good results.gonna recoord some stuff today using this.hell maybe i'll just get guitar rig or something like that for recording.

sometimes the obvious is well,too obvious.

Yep. It works surprisingly well. Here's a pic of the exact settings I used to get this tone...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFMKlQaC6dg

 

[Mark Day]

I've used guitar amp pro in logic 8, set to clean preamp, with the vintage 4x12 cab model, dynamic mic off center, and achieved really great results coming direct out of my preamp/effects send of my amp.

ha ha.y'know i have tried this.and i did get good results.gonna recoord some stuff today using this.hell maybe i'll just get guitar rig or something like that for recording.

sometimes the obvious is well,too obvious.

Yep. It works surprisingly well. Here's a pic of the exact settings I used to get this tone...

Cool, nice results too!
I have used RW IR's in Logic via Space Designer. OD100-HotPlate set to load and go line out into the Duet. I'll have to try your way and see how it sounds. Thanks

Mark

 

[Gorehog]

i need to check these damn cab IRs out today!

 

[Jordon]

I just throw a mic in front of a speaker, move it until it sounds good and then record. Do a simple high pass and low pass filter, and then maybe a multiband to tame the palm mutes. I try to get away with the least amount of post processing as possible. I don't use an attenuator, and I do everything at bedroom volumes in an untreated room. Example of that:

I'm not that great, though. Hopefully some of the better guys will chime in and give you some more advice.

Bam.

There is a lot to be said about micing a real cab. All you need is a 57, a good speaker, and the willingness to develop your ear. In my mixes, I have to EQ the shit out of amp sims, but I barely touch properly miced amps (HP and LP and thats about it). I usually strap a compressor on the guitar buss to shave about 1db of gain reduction off the top, but that depends.

A great sounding amp sim will never (can't convince me otherwise on this, I've been through em all) sound as good in a mix or feel as good to record with as an amp running through a cab that's actually moving air. You can get close, but ultimately you lose something.

 

[Gorehog]

good point

 

[lolzgreg]

I just throw a mic in front of a speaker, move it until it sounds good and then record. Do a simple high pass and low pass filter, and then maybe a multiband to tame the palm mutes. I try to get away with the least amount of post processing as possible. I don't use an attenuator, and I do everything at bedroom volumes in an untreated room. Example of that:

I'm not that great, though. Hopefully some of the better guys will chime in and give you some more advice.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The only reason you should be using an attenuator is if you're using a low gain amp that either HAS NO master volume, or you will be cranking the master volume to get the tone you're looking for.

I said it once, and I will say it again, modern high gain amps do not sound good with power tube saturation; they do not sound good biased too hot either.

If an amp is getting distortion from the preamp section, it needs to be reproduced cleanly, otherwise you're going to end up with a nasty undefined tone.

 

[Gorehog]

this makes perfect sense!

 

[Atropos_Project]

Best results so far for me = 1 12" cabinet mic'ed, and shoved in a closet (basically a large iso box). Cuts down on the room volume drastically, and you still get to have the amp turned up a bit.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

just throw a mic in front of a speaker, move it until it sounds good and then record. Do a simple high pass and low pass filter, and then maybe a multiband to tame the palm mutes. I try to get away with the least amount of post processing as possible. I don't use an attenuator, and I do everything at bedroom volumes in an untreated room. Example of that:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7077071/Blue%20 ... %20Sky.mp3

I'm not that great, though. Hopefully some of the better guys will chime in and give you some more advice.

Sounds great. Nice full recording. Was that a 57? Where can I learn more about the high and low pass filter settings for guitar? Do you just use any generic low/hi pass filter that comes with whatever program is in use or is there one that works better and produces better results? Are you filtering out say unwanted noise from strings etc..? That could be what I am missing..

 

[Code001]

Full rig setup on that clip:

Ibanez RG1527 with an Evo7/AN7
Mesa/Boogie Mark III - 2 rhythm tracks, 2 lead tracks
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Rackmount boosted with one of my own special boosts - 2 rhythm tracks (totals 4 rhythm tracks once you combine it with the Mark III)
Mesa/Boogie Traditional 4x12 w/ V30s
Rocktron Intellifex for the lead delay (was in the Mark III's loop. Not the best way of doing it)
Logic's effects for the flanger, reverb and chorus
SM57 placed somewhere between the cone and dust cap
Presonus Firebox using Logic Pro 8
Logic's own HP/LP filters at 60 Hz/12.6 KHz respectively
Multiband compressor to help out with the palm mutes
Drumkit From Hell with some heavy processing and EQ. I think I used Ozone 3 on the drums to help them out, although they still sound pretty fake.
Trilian plugin since I don't own a real bass


Guitar had foam behind the locking nut (the area where the tuners are) and foam in the cavity to prevent any unwanted ringing. Any noise I experienced, I simply used automation to cut the volume. Some people like to splice up tracks, move them closer to the grid and do all kinds of crazy stuff with them. I just try to make it as tight as I have the patience for and cut any unwanted noise with automation. Because it was at TV volumes, and because the Presonus Firebox wasn't the best mic pre in the world, I did use Logic to boost the volume a bit on the guitar tracks. I don't have to do that anymore with my Apogee Duet, FWIW.

 

[Gorehog]

looking for a marshall jmp-1 also.can they be sent right thru the duet?

just lookin for options.i'm sure i will do some cab micing.i have the cab and a sm57.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Thanks for the info Code! At the end of the day I agree.. no impulses get that grind of a real speaker and amp.. I've messed with them, always something ,missing.

 

[mboogman]

One thing that I like about the preamp direct to IR is that you can always ditch the cab sims later, bus back out to your power amp, and mic the real cab. I guess you would need an interface with multiple line outs. I use a MOTU 828mk3, so this isn't a problem for me. True that cab sims work great for late night idea jotting down sessions, but at the end of the day, a real cab always wins.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Good point, I've been interested in re-amping for that reason as long as you are providing the preamp output from the get go.. That is something i think would be cool so that i could combine or fatten the tone of a real mic'ed cab with some IR beef.

 

[Gorehog]

One thing that I like about the preamp direct to IR is that you can always ditch the cab sims later, bus back out to your power amp, and mic the real cab. I guess you would need an interface with multiple line outs. I use a MOTU 828mk3, so this isn't a problem for me. True that cab sims work great for late night idea jotting down sessions, but at the end of the day, a real cab always wins.

i am seeing the light here.being i'm a noob,i'm not sure of all the techniques available.u guys certainly have opened my eyes.

 

[Gorehog]

i've been rackin my brain for a while.back and forth with different amps,cabs,processors,power amps.

i've taken the forum advice and pretty much decided on a Splawn Streetrod.

i think i'll eventually fill out my rack with a jmp-1 and a good power amp.use that with my Splawn 4x12.

use the Streetrod at home to record.

thx everyone.appreciate your knowledge and help.