Recto Rev F vs G

[Bram576]

I think the MW can do the 2 channel era red modern thing pretty well, orange is a little bit different but I wouldn't say better or worse. But the Rev G just has that scooped raw big 90's thing, the MW is more refined and controlled.

The orange channel is what’s the deal breaker on the new rectos for me vs the old. The orange channel on rev f and before might be my favorite Mesa tone ever. The new ones seem to be really honky and boxy in comparison. Almost in the way the new marks are vs the OG iic+.

 

[TotallyRadGuitars]

I agree with you on the whole, but there are also the power and output transformers to consider and whether all voltages are equivalent in the amp. I don't think there should be a huge difference between the amps, but sometimes things slip through the net (like a 2204 having half of the NFB of a 2203 because they didnt change the NFB resistor to account for the lower wattage).

With additional power tubes comes increased bandwidth and headroom which provides higher high and lower low frequencies. That can be perceived as being relatively scooped compared to lower wattage models of the same amp.

This, and the different transformers used are the recipe for differences in tightness, and the triples are less mid heavy in comparison to the duals if all else is equal. In the room, the differences between a G dual and Triple are huge and obvious.

I'm well aware that transformers make a difference in the sound, but I was under the impression that Duals and Triples used the same transformers - rectifierguide.com only gives the transformer numbers for Duals I guess. Sadly my own Triple G is so rusty the original numbers are long gone. I can't seem to find a resource online that lists the transformer codes for Triples, but they must be different.

As for things slipping through, yeah of course there's always anomalies in production, QC failures etc, but that's a totally different topic. I'm sure there are rectifiers with the wrong spec components installed out there, but that's not really the same as comparing two healthy, built-to-correct-spec amps.

Maybe I'm being too mechanical-brain about this anyway though, they are 20+ year old amps with component drift and who knows what else - mods, repairs with on-hand parts, etc.
Just seems like there's a lot of BS around it. I'm sitting here with the Rev G Dual and Triple on an ABY switch and in a blind test I picked out the Triple as having more mids (same room, same cab, guitar, and front panel settings) - ever so slightly though, they are extremely close - definitely not huge and obvious to me.
But at the same time my sample size is just these two amps, and it's not like I've gone through and checked every component value or swapped every tube to make it a scientific test. My point is that even with both of these amps in the room with me right now, I'd hesitate to hop online and start telling people "oh, Triples have more mids" because I'm not completely confident in saying that - but there are a lot of people who do that.
Or maybe my ears are liars.

 

[Racerxrated]

I'm well aware that transformers make a difference in the sound, but I was under the impression that Duals and Triples used the same transformers - rectifierguide.com only gives the transformer numbers for Duals I guess. Sadly my own Triple G is so rusty the original numbers are long gone. I can't seem to find a resource online that lists the transformer codes for Triples, but they must be different.

As for things slipping through, yeah of course there's always anomalies in production, QC failures etc, but that's a totally different topic. I'm sure there are rectifiers with the wrong spec components installed out there, but that's not really the same as comparing two healthy, built-to-correct-spec amps.

Maybe I'm being too mechanical-brain about this anyway though, they are 20+ year old amps with component drift and who knows what else - mods, repairs with on-hand parts, etc.
Just seems like there's a lot of BS around it. I'm sitting here with the Rev G Dual and Triple on an ABY switch and in a blind test I picked out the Triple as having more mids (same room, same cab, guitar, and front panel settings) - ever so slightly though, they are extremely close - definitely not huge and obvious to me.
But at the same time my sample size is just these two amps, and it's not like I've gone through and checked every component value or swapped every tube to make it a scientific test. My point is that even with both of these amps in the room with me right now, I'd hesitate to hop online and start telling people "oh, Triples have more mids" because I'm not completely confident in saying that - but there are a lot of people who do that.
Or maybe my ears are liars.

If you are A/Bing both a Dual and a Triple G, and the EQs are set the same, and the mids are in the same place then I'm not sure what to say...that clearly wasn't the case when I jumped in the G Recto rabbit hole. Both G Duals, 3K serials small logo, were very bloated in the lows and low mids, and that cannot be dialed out of those 2. By contrast, the 2 G triples, a blackout that was amazing and a chrome/black that was just ok, if I set the eq the same as the Duals they had far less mids. Which was a much easier amp to dial in, since I could easily scoop those mids out where that was impossible with the Duals.
That was my experience, maybe it was due to them being very early Gs? But after comparing I wouldn't touch a G Dual as they were honk city in the low mids...coudn't dial it out.

I should also mention, that another 'thing' the Gs had (both dual/triple) is garbage feel...which made them bad lead amps IMO. Rhythm only for my taste. Vs the Fs, which had a bouncy feel that reminded me of a C+...not the same, but had 'some' of that bounce. Much better for lead work with that improved feel.

 

[RaceU4her]

I should also mention, that another 'thing' the Gs had (both dual/triple) is garbage feel...which made them bad lead amps IMO. Rhythm only for my taste. Vs the Fs, which had a bouncy feel that reminded me of a C+...not the same, but had 'some' of that bounce. Much better for lead work with that improved feel.

thats odd, my G has that "almost there" bounce that my iic+ and cameron have, and the chiron brings it even closer which is why i love that pedal so much.

 

[Racerxrated]

thats odd, my G has that "almost there" bounce that my iic+ and cameron have, and the chiron brings it even closer which is why i love that pedal so much.

Is your G modded? The 4 that I had, didn't have good feel at all; boosting did improve that however. The Fs and earlier are much better in that regard. At least in my experience.

 

[RaceU4her]

Is your G modded? The 4 that I had, didn't have good feel at all; boosted did improve that however. The Fs and earlier are much better in that regard. At least in my experience.

nah, i got it from GJgo, its the good one he always says he regrets selling. he knows better about it than me

 

[Racerxrated]

nah, i got it from GJgo, its the good one he always says he regrets selling. he knows better about it than me

There's a few Gs out there that have had some or all of the C mods...this was a pretty popular thread on the boogie board ten yrs ago. Many guys were chiming in on how much better their G was after they had the mods done.
If you're curious take a pic of the chassis/circuit and post it....I can tell just by counting the LDRs that are intact. The mod removes/bypasses 2-3 of them.

 

[GJgo]

There's a few Gs out there that have had some or all of the C mods...this was a pretty popular thread on the boogie board ten yrs ago. Many guys were chiming in on how much better their G was after they had the mods done.
If you're curious take a pic of the chassis/circuit and post it....I can tell just by counting the LDRs that are intact. The mod removes/bypasses 2-3 of them.

I had Mike B service that one, if it was modded he didn’t say anything.

I got it from Strung Out, it was one of their touring amps.

This new TG I got is the first Recto that’s relieved my anxiety of selling that one! Stoked to be here.

They’re just all a little different. I had a small logo dual G at the same time as a G Rackto. The small logo was great, though it did need a boost, however the Rackto- which everyone seems to love- was softer and tubbier than a fat chick at a donut shop.

“Cool kid” factor as it relates to desirability should not be underestimated.

 

[VHTStark]

I had Mike B service that one, if it was modded he didn’t say anything.

I got it from Strung Out, it was one of their touring amps.

This new TG I got is the first Recto that’s relieved my anxiety of selling that one! Stoked to be here.

They’re just all a little different. I had a small logo dual G at the same time as a G Rackto. The small logo was great, though it did need a boost, however the Rackto- which everyone seems to love- was softer and tubbier than a fat chick at a donut shop.

“Cool kid” factor as it relates to desirability should not be underestimated.

If that is Jake Kiley's old triple (Strung Out), then I am familiar and that is probably the best Rev G I have heard.

The Rev G's I have owned; never loved them and absolutely would never pay what they are going for now. Also, like Racer said, I found it weird that an amp that was so loosey goosey, simultaneously had this dryness with no bounce. I played waaay better on the Ultra-lead I had at the time, which l, while being tight-dry, had way more punch and a better feel for leads.

 

[RaceU4her]

If that is Jake Kiley's old triple (Strung Out), then I am familiar and that is probably the best Rev G I have heard.

this is great, i love knowing i got the good one

 

[ZEN Amps]

thats odd, my G has that "almost there" bounce that my iic+ and cameron have, and the chiron brings it even closer which is why i love that pedal so much.

What's the Chiron all about.. Klon type thang?

 

[RaceU4her]

What's the Chiron all about.. Klon type thang?

yeah, its the Klone that Griff here makes. i believe he sourced the actual parts used in the real ones. i now understand the mythical status behind Klons, i just keep everything at noon and it really is like a magic box for me, just ads the perfect amount of everything and somehow ads that little bit of squishy feel that is so fun and addicting. highly recommended

 

[Bossman415]

I wouldn't put much stock in the whole F vs G debate. According to Mike B there weren't many changes between E, F and G.

The Revisions which break from that are C & D due to the PCB. The Rev C mod is cool but isn't 100% to C specs & kills the clean channel.

The earlier comment about component drift is very real. These amps are ~30 years old and loaded with carbon comp resistors...

As for a New Rectifier, I think Mesa is overdue and wouldn't be surprised if a refresh with midi & cab clone wasn't in the works.


PS: Damn I feel old bringing up their age. I remember the armadillo ad in Guitar Player magazine when they first dropped.

 

[the4thlast1]

Anyone know if Mesa will still mod a recto of you send it in. Like mod a G to an F ?

 

[Metal1977]

Anyone know if Mesa will still mod a recto of you send it in. Like mod a G to an F ?

I asked before and Mesa respond by saying, it’s the same amp.

We all know it’s not the same amp, but they won’t bother modding a Rev G into a F.

 

[the4thlast1]

I asked before and Mesa respond by saying, it’s the same amp.

We all know it’s not the same amp, but they won’t bother modding a Rev G into a F.

Ahh ok, there are some guys who have gotten G mod to C. Maybe they would still do that ?

 

[Metal1977]

Ahh ok, there are some guys who have gotten G mod to C. Maybe they would still do that ?

They were doing it (G to C) when i asked, but just not G to F.

 

[Bram576]

I wouldn't put much stock in the whole F vs G debate. According to Mike B there weren't many changes between E, F and G.

They also said the OG IIc+, and the jp2c and mark V sounded exactly the same in IIc mode. They also gave out LOADS of false schematics in their day to fuck with people. So I wouldn’t put too much stock in that either. I’m a total Mesa fan boy btw.

 

[GJgo]

You could mod your G to get someone else's favorite version of a Recto, or you could just boost your G with your pedal of choice to get your favorite version. It's a lot more adaptable that way..

 

[Snave]

I'm well aware that transformers make a difference in the sound, but I was under the impression that Duals and Triples used the same transformers - rectifierguide.com only gives the transformer numbers for Duals I guess. Sadly my own Triple G is so rusty the original numbers are long gone. I can't seem to find a resource online that lists the transformer codes for Triples, but they must be different.

As for things slipping through, yeah of course there's always anomalies in production, QC failures etc, but that's a totally different topic. I'm sure there are rectifiers with the wrong spec components installed out there, but that's not really the same as comparing two healthy, built-to-correct-spec amps.

Maybe I'm being too mechanical-brain about this anyway though, they are 20+ year old amps with component drift and who knows what else - mods, repairs with on-hand parts, etc.
Just seems like there's a lot of BS around it. I'm sitting here with the Rev G Dual and Triple on an ABY switch and in a blind test I picked out the Triple as having more mids (same room, same cab, guitar, and front panel settings) - ever so slightly though, they are extremely close - definitely not huge and obvious to me.
But at the same time my sample size is just these two amps, and it's not like I've gone through and checked every component value or swapped every tube to make it a scientific test. My point is that even with both of these amps in the room with me right now, I'd hesitate to hop online and start telling people "oh, Triples have more mids" because I'm not completely confident in saying that - but there are a lot of people who do that.
Or maybe my ears are liars.

These are the Schumacher transformers used in 2-channel Triple Rectifiers. The Dual Rectifier transformers changed in July 1993 to add a 16-ohm tap, but Triples always had one.

- 562181 output transformer
- 561138 power transformer