Reverb pedals don't work in front of Friedman modded amps?

[AndyK]

I tried a Holy Grail Nano, and a Digitech Hardwire reverb pedal in front of my modded Marshall. Both pedals acted strange, and sounded honky unless I back the amp gain way down.

Without an FX loop, am I just screwed if I want a hint of reverb?

 

[romanianreaper]

I have never had great results with any amp, putting the reverb thru the front. I've always had to go into the effects loop. There might be a pedal out there that would do ok up front though.

 

[steve_k]

Did it work in front of the amp before you had it modded?

 

[glip22]

Those pedals would probably sound crappy in front of any amp.

 

[Blix]

There is a reason most use reverb in effect loops when you use your amps overdrive. Reverb into distortion doesn't work. So yes, you are screwed.

Options:

Have a loop installed
Use a overdrive pedal before the reverb, run the amp clean(not something you'd want with a Dave modded amp obviously)
Don't use reverb(Duh)
Wet/dry setup, buy a Suhr Line out box, which goes between your head and speaker cab, gives you the full sound of your amp, which feeds your fx of choice, then into a second amp.
For just a touch of reverb, even a little solid-state combo could work wonders.
And you will be blown away by how much larger your sound will appear. Seriously.
For fun I tried this using a 2w or something Roland Micro Cube as a wet amp, and even that tiny little thing worked decently.

 

[AndyK]

Good point! I could buy an attenuator that has a built in line out and use my TM 10 combo as a wet fx amp. Which attenuators have a line out?

 

[sswanson]

Good point! I could buy an attenuator that has a built in line out and use my TM 10 combo as a wet fx amp. Which attenuators have a line out?

THD Hotplates have a line out.

 

[steve_k]

Good point! I could buy an attenuator that has a built in line out and use my TM 10 combo as a wet fx amp. Which attenuators have a line out?

You don't need an attenuator to do that. A few line out boxes out there, or get Friedman to make you one. It taps off a spare speaker jack.

As an alternative, use a delay in front of the amp. Set it to short duration and feedback. You will get some depth to the sound and sounds better than reverb. If you are playing live, just mic a cab and get your reverb from the FOH mixer.

Steve

 

[AndyK]

So assuming I can get a Line Out box, or a line out via an attenuator:

How do I use my TM10 combo as an FX wet amp? Line out goes from my Friedman, into an FX unit, then into the loop of the wet amp?

 

[LP Freak]

If you've got a few soldering skills, you can drop in a Metro loop for $100 and you're good to go.

http://metroamp.com/store/index.php?mai ... cts_id=499

 

[AndyK]

If you've got a few soldering skills, you can drop in a Metro loop for $100 and you're good to go.

http://metroamp.com/store/index.php?mai ... cts_id=499

Nope, I don't wanna mess with Dave's circuits! A simple line out doesn't mess with the overall tone either.

 

[LP Freak]

If you've got a few soldering skills, you can drop in a Metro loop for $100 and you're good to go.

http://metroamp.com/store/index.php?mai ... cts_id=499

Nope, I don't wanna mess with Dave's circuits! A simple line out doesn't mess with the overall tone either.

Trust me, it'll be fine. That loop is as good as they come and if you don't need it switch in the bypass.

 

[AndyK]

If you've got a few soldering skills, you can drop in a Metro loop for $100 and you're good to go.

http://metroamp.com/store/index.php?mai ... cts_id=499

Nope, I don't wanna mess with Dave's circuits! A simple line out doesn't mess with the overall tone either.

Trust me, it'll be fine. That loop is as good as they come and if you don't need it switch in the bypass.

I'm not qualified to do the install, trust me!

If I do go the route of using a line out, (like the one on a Weber Mini Mass attenuator )is the line out signal a clean signal sans preamp, or does it have preamp gain?

 

[Blix]

If you've got a few soldering skills, you can drop in a Metro loop for $100 and you're good to go.

http://metroamp.com/store/index.php?mai ... cts_id=499

Nope, I don't wanna mess with Dave's circuits! A simple line out doesn't mess with the overall tone either.

Trust me, it'll be fine. That loop is as good as they come and if you don't need it switch in the bypass.

I'm not qualified to do the install, trust me!

If I do go the route of using a line out, (like the one on a Weber Mini Mass attenuator )is the line out signal a clean signal sans preamp, or does it have preamp gain?

A line out from an attenuator will be the full signal signal from the amp, the same your speaker gets, just padded down to line level.
However, I still recommend the Suhr Line out box, the Weber line out is not variable, not balanced, no ground lift or phase switch, all valuable tools for setting up a good wet/dry rig.

 

[AndyK]

A line out from an attenuator will be the full signal signal from the amp, the same your speaker gets, just padded down to line level.
However, I still recommend the Suhr Line out box, the Weber line out is not variable, not balanced, no ground lift or phase switch, all valuable tools for setting up a good wet/dry rig.

OK, so with the Suhr Line Out box, will the full signal, gain and everything, be going out to my FX unit, then ultimately into a clean combo acting as the wet amp? Shouldn't only the clean signal pass to the FX/wet Combo?

 

[Blix]

A line out from an attenuator will be the full signal signal from the amp, the same your speaker gets, just padded down to line level.
However, I still recommend the Suhr Line out box, the Weber line out is not variable, not balanced, no ground lift or phase switch, all valuable tools for setting up a good wet/dry rig.

OK, so with the Suhr Line Out box, will the full signal, gain and everything, be going out to my FX unit, then ultimately into a clean combo acting as the wet amp? Shouldn't only the clean signal pass to the FX/wet Combo?

Uhm no

Let's take this from the start, when you have the reverb in front of your amp, your clean signal from the guitar and the reverb gets distorted by your amps overdrive. When you have the reverb after the distortion, the reverb can function as normal, making nice clean reverb from whatever signal you feed it, clean or distorted.

When using a line out, the reverb gets the signal like you set it on your amp. Set the reverb very wet, try all the way up into the "wet" amp. You be amazed by how little volume you need on the your wet amp to make a huge difference.

 

[Blix]

And yes, signal chain will be: line out-fx- loop return on your wet amp.

 

[AndyK]

Uhm no

When using a line out, the reverb gets the signal like you set it on your amp. Set the reverb very wet, try all the way up into the "wet" amp. You be amazed by how little volume you need on the your wet amp to make a huge difference.

I'm still confused. What do you mean by the reverb gets the signal like I set it on the amp? Do you mean the reverb will be AFTER the guitar and amp, instead of before (as a pedal)? Will the clean combo wet amp get the fully gained out signal, plus reverb? When I tried this a few years ago using the loop on my amp, sending to the FX, into the return of the combo amp loop, it was a clean signal with the FX, not a high gain sounding signal. Know what I mean?

 

[Blix]

Uhm no

When using a line out, the reverb gets the signal like you set it on your amp. Set the reverb very wet, try all the way up into the "wet" amp. You be amazed by how little volume you need on the your wet amp to make a huge difference.

I'm still confused. What do you mean by the reverb gets the signal like I set it on the amp? Do you mean the reverb will be AFTER the guitar and amp, instead of before (as a pedal)? Will the clean combo wet amp get the fully gained out signal, plus reverb? When I tried this a few years ago using the loop on my amp, sending to the FX, into the return of the combo amp loop, it was a clean signal with the FX, not a high gain sounding signal. Know what I mean?

Hehe, man you are truly confused!

Yes the reverb will be after the guitar and amp, that's the whole point, good thing is that your reverb pedal can be set to 100% wet, so what will come out of your wet amp, will be reverb only. Use the level control on your pedal to introduce some dry if you want to, experiment.


And this: "When I tried this a few years ago using the loop on my amp, sending to the FX, into the return of the combo amp loop, it was a clean signal with the FX, not a high gain sounding signal. Know what I mean?"

Well if you had a clean sound dialed in, it will be a clean signal of course. But an effects loop is placed after the preamp, so if you use preamp gain, that's what the fx sees.
The point here is that with the distortion in front of the reverb, the reverb can make "clean" reverbs from it, when the distortion is after the reverb, everything ends up in a distorted mess....

Hey try it the other way around, maybe it makes it clearer for you, use you amp with the loop, but use the stereo out(on the HW) to send reverb to your Marshalls input, set the Marshall clean with a very low input gain at first. This will give you a taste of what's to come.

 

[AndyK]

I really am confused, a little less now though! So, my Hardwire pedal has a MIX, or just a level? The Nanoverb unit I have has a true wet/dry level, I didn't think pedals have that - Just level, from none to full on. And, I'll probably return the Hardwire to buy a Line Out pedal, to go with the Nanoverb - which is a fine enough reverb for my needs.

Is the Suhr ISO the only line out pedal to consider?