Sanity Check: Are These Caps Bad?

  • Thread starter Thread starter hellzington
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hellzington

hellzington

Well-known member
Hey y'all, need a quick opinion from someone with more technical knowledge than myself. I'm currently selling a Fender Custom Shop Tone Master amp and a prospective buyer has been driving me a bit nuts with excruciating minutiae.

Annnnyhow, after pulling the chassis several times for various pics, he asked to see the filter caps under the cap can. I sent him the pictures attached to this message. Here is his response:

"Thanks for the pics Mike. You can see in pic #2 that the second and third caps’ ends are bulging and on the third one it is leaking electrolytic material and causing the small crystalline flecks you see."

I took a look at the pics again and couldn't really see what he was talking about. So I pulled the chassis again and shot this video:



He responded: "Hey Mike, thanks for taking the time to post the video. I think I understand what our misunderstanding about the condition of the caps is. I’m not talking about the exterior of the body of the caps and your video shows that the exterior of the cylinder of them is not bulging. I’m talking about the 'ends' of the capacitors. From the pics that I mentioned, one endcap is bulging a bit and the other is bulging and there looks to be a similar situation on the other and there appears to be small 'pimples' on the other."

I was showing the ends in my video, specifically how they are NOT bulging. I tried to show a 90 degree dead-on side view where the caps are totally flat. FWIW - I don't see any views on the video so no idea if he even watched it.

I know these are the original caps on a 20+ year old amp and they will obviously have to be replaced in the not-too-distant future, but am I crazy for thinking these are generally fine? He is saying that the amp will imminently fail and blow the output transformer.

Assistance please? :)
 

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I do not see anything like what the gentleman is describing. These look, visually, fine. I see nothing that I would call a red flag. Other than some oddly bent legs. (And that's being nitpicky)

Looks pretty standard, and appears acceptable, visually.
 
Put me in the not seeing anything wrong there.... the only foreign substance I am seeing is the silicon used to glue the caps.

That amp is also not that rare / sought after / high value enough to deal with that much crap, look for another buyer. It sounds like he's just looking for reasons to drive the price down and will invariably have problems and request a partial refund after he buys.
 
technomancer said:
Put me in the not seeing anything wrong there.... the only foreign substance I am seeing is the silicon used to glue the caps.

That amp is also not that rare / sought after / high value enough to deal with that much crap, look for another buyer. It sounds like he's just looking for reasons to drive the price down and will invariably have problems and request a partial refund after he buys.
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Yeah, I was thinking same. Buyers that ask too many questions like this are usually trouble. I recently had a guy bitch and complain to Reverb about a Deliverance 120 I sold him. He refused to use the Safe Ship insurance (which is apparently allowed) and instead get a full refund. I don't accept returns but Reverb forced me to, so I had him mail the amp directly to Fryette for repair. Fryette said there was nothing wrong with it. Needless to say, I don't want to go through that again.
 
hellzington said:
Buyers that ask too many questions like this are usually trouble.
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Ding ding ding. Correct. That guy is nothing but trouble, watch out. I'd just quit responding to his shit. One or two questions, maybe request a few pics. You've pulled this chassis multiple times already?. Forget that joker I would've already told him to kick rocks. He'll get the amp and then start complaining and picking more shit apart. Beautiful amp, always wanted one of those, wish I had the dough. Good luck bro.
 
I’d just tell him “we’ll just have to agree to disagree” and punt. If he’s so knowledgeable then replacing 20+ year old caps should super easy and cheap enough. Especially if you use cheap caps which Illinois Caps are.

If nothing else look up how cheap those caps are. Tell him you’ll meet him halfway so ~$20 difference?
 
SpiderWars said:
I’d just tell him “we’ll just have to agree to disagree” and punt. If he’s so knowledgeable then replacing 20+ year old caps should super easy and cheap enough. Especially if you use cheap caps which Illinois Caps are.

If nothing else look up how cheap those caps are. Tell him you’ll meet him halfway so ~$20 difference?
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+1

If he’s such an expert on capacitor health then he can just buy as is and replace them himself.

Run, don’t walk. Find someone else.
 
griff10672 said:
get a 20 dollar ESR meter ........ and be done with guessing .....
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Which requires removing the caps to measure anyway. At that point why would you even put them back in and instead just replace them? They’re IC cheap garbage - not worth measuring the ESR. You trash them and move on.
 
glpg80 said:
Which requires removing the caps to measure anyway. At that point why would you even put them back in and instead just replace them? They’re IC cheap garbage - not worth measuring the ESR. You trash them and move on.
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my meter works with caps in circuit ........ I've diagnosed bad caps " in circuit " several times

I do agree with just replace them though ....... they are well known to be shit
 
griff10672 said:
my meter works with caps in circuit ........ I've diagnosed bad caps " in circuit " several times

I do agree with just replace them though ....... they are well known to be shit
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What meter do you use?
 
glpg80 said:
What meter do you use?
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I don't have it with me .... and I don't know the exact model number off the top of my head ... I grabbed it on Amazon a few years back . ( was like 20 bucks )

Bought it specifically to check Electro's ..... and specifically bought that one because it said I could test " In circuit "

and it has worked ... more than a handful of times now for me ..
 
griff10672 said:
I don't have it with me .... and I don't know the exact model number off the top of my head ... I grabbed it on Amazon a few years back . ( was like 20 bucks )

Bought it specifically to check Electro's ..... and specifically bought that one because it said I could test " In circuit "

and it has worked ... more than a handful of times now for me ..
Click to expand...

Yeah it’s likely not measuring ESR at any particular frequency, it’s probably using ohms law to get a simple DC measurement when off which is fine for good/bad baseline.

Actual ESR varies depending on frequency and you’re getting into LCR and impedance analyzer territory to be able to do that while in circuit. It gets really expensive really fast.

Low frequency or DC measurements are ok for determining if a capacitor is just a resistor and non functional but if you’re checking ESR in circuit for remaining life, it’s going to take a (much) more expensive piece of equipment.

It’s hard for me to justify the cost of a used impedance analyzer which is a step up from an LCR.
 
glpg80 said:
Yeah it’s likely not measuring ESR at any particular frequency, it’s probably using ohms law to get a simple DC measurement when off which is fine for good/bad baseline.

Actual ESR varies depending on frequency and you’re getting into LCR and impedance analyzer territory to be able to do that while in circuit. It gets really expensive really fast.

Low frequency or DC measurements are ok for determining if a capacitor is just a resistor and non functional but if you’re checking ESR in circuit for remaining life, it’s going to take a (much) more expensive piece of equipment.

It’s hard for me to justify the cost of a used impedance analyzer which is a step up from an LCR.
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I did just buy this one ... about a month ago .... I haven't really got to use it yet ... which is good thing I guess

I like the PEAK stuff a lot ....

https://www.amazon.com/Velleman-ESR...qid=1742486201&sprefix=peak+esr,aps,81&sr=8-1
 
If the amp has been played regularly the caps can be fine but they are reaching the end of their lifespan and probably should be recapped or at least checked with an ESR meter. I don't see any leaking electrolyte or bulging from the pics either, best you can do it have them tested for capacitance and ESR leakage. That residue is solder rosin splatter that happens when soldering, kind of like splatter when you are welding.

I picked up a Peak ESR 70 and it will measure in circuit caps as far as I can tell and it seems to work well and I've tested alot of caps with it and it works great.

The buyer is probably trying to set up a talking point to negotiate down or set up a possible reason to return the amp if he were to buy it. You can always state the caps are good for now and the amp plays well and it quiet but since they are original caps you could always discount it pricing in a cap job but most people don't know how to maintain amps and run them until they leak and/or explode.

But just as your Deliverance sale went south with a dishonest buyer they can go bad at any time and you will be forced to take the return even though you state no returns in your sale statement. Thankfully you got your amp back, some guys don't even get them back and the refund still stands.....I don't know how the hell something like that happens but people on this board have gone through it.:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
 
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griff10672 said:
I did just buy this one ... about a month ago .... I haven't really got to use it yet ... which is good thing I guess

I like the PEAK stuff a lot ....

https://www.amazon.com/Velleman-ESR70-Atlas/dp/B005NIBEYU/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3K5H0UY69JUFV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.R95mc1T2k26SROS4MTlTMcK_5vcQn26FQvULmIk3KTgLdd1QVnxIe6pWzTpl9V8VLpxhnf-nAgVHAYCeS2F_47Ji-JA9tBLrVa7j2FNTMYtaR6128dOgTetzVr0-MD6nkqy4JUTzXkk5_tKCuLdbczfyNaBcaB6zUrnzKxaMNZe-Sjc9rAyhAMYubxFyDjPZBf8_cayZ_0U1klpqn4oooE927kZUtwGGBekyub77V-4JRTox308tvw74-Z5t_VhW13Iz1VLuR_EdpTCcP82MpsjdzzrGCRZ9RrBUW6lCtJTa9uMM2lm65Qcj_WMqxitDhW1eodnPZlp_rYXoi_4nCwerAGQvmZgyGLD2iCTWcreTIJxXnDEae8FXzPwnTsRToo0tCz7wMB6KyGg4B_NkyPtvw17lnyTwVcbZswOof25eQSC09xZ5jvFd3FZJN9lv.PQgcL75FjJEfd-W4r13o_o4nk9SxVYIqVJg_pGK_Otc&dib_tag=se&keywords=Peak+ESR&qid=1742486201&sprefix=peak+esr,aps,81&sr=8-1
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I like my PEAK ESR70 Mr Griff! I know it's not Tektronix cap tester but it does what I need it to and not super expensive!:2thumbsup:
 
He's full of crap. Those caps are visually fine. I don't see any bulging and I don't see any leaking electrolyte. The residue on the black board is simply from the solder flux sputtering and is completely normal. I would tell him to go buy some other amp.
 
Fuck that clown 🤡 I would love to have that fuckin amp. Plus you were selling it cheap also right? Yeah fuck that clown….
 
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