Saw This, and was wondering what the deal is?

[thiswaythatway]

i doubt anybody is jealous of somebody that owns a cameron, most people outside of RT dont care about owning a cameron and that has nothing to do with having enough money to buy one.
i have zero desire to own a cameron and i can buy any amp i want, im under the impression that its mostly rig talkers that buy camerons, i could be completely wrong with that statement too.

Read some of the attacks on Brad, it's all about money.

From the perspective of someone very familiar with that forum, Zombie is correct; very few people over there care about '80s bands or tones. And the relatively very few who attacked Brad (besides the RTers who started it) either talked about a negative situation that happened on a transaction with someone or fun (admittedly brutal) was being made of videos/pics, which surely came across as a bit strange when edited and posted with negative comments. Those few people would've posted similarly about similar vids/pics of nearly any HC poster. There were also some non-RTers who saw what was going on later in the thread, and it slowed down. Drama there, drama here.

Why would the Cameron amps only be associated with 80s bands and tones. They are capable of quite a bit more than that. So ridiculous...

Steve

. It just goes to show that the ^%$#@ posting their "reviews" on the CCV over on HCAF have never played through one. They are likely basing their "reviews" on internet clips of an amp at bedroom volumes being recorded through a handheld recorder buried under a couch cushion.

And don't you think you're assuming a bit much? I guess if anyone posts a negative review on an amp I happen to own I'll should I say they're likely haven't played one? I'm not taking sticking up for anyone, just making light of the "versus" forum mentality.

 

[Anonymous]

i doubt anybody is jealous of somebody that owns a cameron, most people outside of RT dont care about owning a cameron and that has nothing to do with having enough money to buy one.
i have zero desire to own a cameron and i can buy any amp i want, im under the impression that its mostly rig talkers that buy camerons, i could be completely wrong with that statement too.

Read some of the attacks on Brad, it's all about money.

From the perspective of someone very familiar with that forum, Zombie is correct; very few people over there care about '80s bands or tones. And the relatively very few who attacked Brad (besides the RTers who started it) either talked about a negative situation that happened on a transaction with someone or fun (admittedly brutal) was being made of videos/pics, which surely came across as a bit strange when edited and posted with negative comments. Those few people would've posted similarly about similar vids/pics of nearly any HC poster. There were also some non-RTers who saw what was going on later in the thread, and it slowed down. Drama there, drama here.

Why would the Cameron amps only be associated with 80s bands and tones. They are capable of quite a bit more than that. So ridiculous...

Steve

. It just goes to show that the ^%$#@ posting their "reviews" on the CCV over on HCAF have never played through one. They are likely basing their "reviews" on internet clips of an amp at bedroom volumes being recorded through a handheld recorder buried under a couch cushion.

And don't you think you're assuming a bit much? I guess if anyone posts a negative review on an amp I happen to own I'll should I say they're likely haven't played one? I'm not taking sticking up for anyone, just making light of the "versus" forum mentality.

Most of the guys on HCAF who are posting that they don't want a Cameron haven't played one, though. They are judging based on clips, which is why they think it is all about 80s rock. Truthfully, only a tiny, tiny portion of the guitar playing public, including our members here, have played a Cameron Amp simply because relatively few (even mods) have been produced and circulated...

Steve

 

[Ventura]

Just for the record, I'm really not a massive fanboi of 80s metal myself - not a big fan of EVH tone or the like. Seems RT is always considered this 80s hangout place... I don't find that at all. I think we've got a good balance of peeps here, both personally and musically.

Just sayin', I'm surprised the thread "over there" is gaining as much traction "over here", where it really oughta just be shot and pissed on. It's over - done - finito - DOA - goners - kaput...

Uncle Mo

 

[Digital Jams]

i doubt anybody is jealous of somebody that owns a cameron, most people outside of RT dont care about owning a cameron and that has nothing to do with having enough money to buy one.
i have zero desire to own a cameron and i can buy any amp i want, im under the impression that its mostly rig talkers that buy camerons, i could be completely wrong with that statement too.

Read some of the attacks on Brad, it's all about money.

From the perspective of someone very familiar with that forum, Zombie is correct; very few people over there care about '80s bands or tones. And the relatively very few who attacked Brad (besides the RTers who started it) either talked about a negative situation that happened on a transaction with someone or fun (admittedly brutal) was being made of videos/pics, which surely came across as a bit strange when edited and posted with negative comments. Those few people would've posted similarly about similar vids/pics of nearly any HC poster. There were also some non-RTers who saw what was going on later in the thread, and it slowed down. Drama there, drama here.

Why would the Cameron amps only be associated with 80s bands and tones. They are capable of quite a bit more than that. So ridiculous...

Steve

So ^this^ Steve!

I just was playing with my CCV yesterday and dialed in some KILLER crystal clean tones and mid-gain raunch a la AC/DC or, from a more contemporary viewpoint, a la QOTSA, etc.

The CCV is CRAZY versatile. Yeah, it does the 80's modded thing amazingly well, but it does a HELL of a lot more than that. It just goes to show that the ^%$#@ posting their "reviews" on the CCV over on HCAF have never played through one. They are likely basing their "reviews" on internet clips of an amp at bedroom volumes being recorded through a handheld recorder buried under a couch cushion.

I have heard very good sounding clips of the CCV, missed these couch smushed clips somehow.........................

Dude, post up those ac/dc and clean clips

BTW your mega internet typed tone report of the ccv destroying everything on the hcaf thread did not fair very well

 

[drewiv]

After reading that entire (stupid and mind-numbing) thread this was one of the more idiotic things written (quote below). Obviously, this is coming from someone that has never started or operated a business before in their life, or more likely, has never left their couch. Not to mention an old time (self-banned) RTer agreeing with the math, completely uninformed. I could also do without the personal attacks and homophobic banter that litter the thread, that's just not my style or something I care to deal with in my life. First and last thread I read on HC.

lets look at the math for a bit

cost to build=$1800 (estimated, but probably pretty accurate)
sale price=$3600
profit per amp=$1800

1800 x 25= $45000

$45K profit.

10 amps at cost would be $18K. if 10 people paid the $1K upcharge, that's $8K. i'm sure MC's cut is enough to get those 10 amps out, but only two have made it so far.

something's stinky.

knucklefux is the proprietor of Titan Amps. Small amp business, but the dude knows amps and the costs associated with building them. Based on my experience as well, I'd say he's pretty close on the cost to build a CCV. Might be a little higher due to labor costs to build it...

Where he is wrong is where he starts talking about profit per amp. He's not considering any of the R&D costs that have gone into the amp, including whatever "bailout" had to be paid to Mark so he could live and pay the back rent he owed, etc. The amp was changed since Mark's original design to add midi, I believe there were some attempts at layout changes per Mark, so there was for sure R&D there. Also, you have to keep some amps, cabs, etc around for demos, etc. - that costs money as well. Of course, to be a real business, you have to have a pro website designed, have professional pictures taken, etc., etc., etc...

I doubt there has been any profit on the CCVs yet. If there is, there hasn't been much, believe me... I am amazed that, given everything I know about what this shit costs to get going, Brad has been able to deliver ANY of the amps to the guys that got screwed, and I commend him on that...

I'm doing the same thing in terms of building a repeatable amp business. Now, of course, mine is done from scratch (no existing PCB design) with only a turret board prototype, but nonetheless, I'm sure there have been significant costs that knucklefux hasn't thought about. I can't believe how much everything costs to get going and I can't believe how many stupid mistakes you make along the way that cost you big time. My amp works now with some hardwiring I did and I love how it sounds, but I still can't build quantities of them yet, because some traces need to be re-routed and I need a whole new set of final (I hope!) boards run and boy does that cost - probably $2K total because I have to make one off prototypes, including parts, etc. Believe me this eats up profit quickly, as you are in the hole BIG time before you can even sell amp one. I also had to have a second prototype head case built, because I specified the first one too small in depth and the knobs go past the end of the cab... Doh... $300 bucks down the drain... Now I'm trying to get front and back metal panels made for the head cases and that is taking forever and will require expensive, one-off prototypes as did my chassis, etc., etc., etc... Now granted, once all prototypes are complete and you are making many amps, there are economies of scale that make the profit per amp better, but there are still all those up front costs.

I'm not complaining, because I really believe I've got something killer here and will be able to make some profit down the line, and truthfully, this isn't all about short term gain for me anyway. It is just something I really wanted to do and I have the money to fund the startup... Many people spout off about the price of "boutique" amps, but when you use great components and build only a few with high quality chassis, custom head cases, etc., the amount of profit isn't what people think...

Steve

Well, I apologize for talking out of my ass. I guess the point I was (poorly) trying to get across is that I too doubt there are any profits going on with Cameron Amplification quite yet. I don't know, it's none of my business, but I do know the costs associated with running (and starting) a business. I do know the costs associated with building an amp (direct costs) is not the end of expenses. If Gross Profit = Net Profit, I'd be a happy guy. If it were that easy to make a company turn a 100% profit in a year, everyone would do it.

Oh, hey man - I wasn't calling you out in any way, shape or form. Frankly, you are 100% right. I was just clarifying who the guy was and what he knows, while supporting your point...

BTW - did I sell you the guitar in your avatar? Can't remember...

Steve

Ah, no butthurt from me. I was OBVIOUSLY wrong when I said he never started or ran a business and for that I was talking out my ass. I will say that if he manages his accounting in the manner in which he analyzed the cost of amps, profit, etc. I would NOT want him running my business.

I got the guitar in my avatar from a closing studio. I believe it was in Texas.

 

[Atropos_Project]

That thread is... fascinating.

Only on the internet will you find folks willing to tirelessly (close to 500 posts?) argue about something they claim to not care about, and have no vested interest in.

 

[Anonymous]

After reading that entire (stupid and mind-numbing) thread this was one of the more idiotic things written (quote below). Obviously, this is coming from someone that has never started or operated a business before in their life, or more likely, has never left their couch. Not to mention an old time (self-banned) RTer agreeing with the math, completely uninformed. I could also do without the personal attacks and homophobic banter that litter the thread, that's just not my style or something I care to deal with in my life. First and last thread I read on HC.

lets look at the math for a bit

cost to build=$1800 (estimated, but probably pretty accurate)
sale price=$3600
profit per amp=$1800

1800 x 25= $45000

$45K profit.

10 amps at cost would be $18K. if 10 people paid the $1K upcharge, that's $8K. i'm sure MC's cut is enough to get those 10 amps out, but only two have made it so far.

something's stinky.

knucklefux is the proprietor of Titan Amps. Small amp business, but the dude knows amps and the costs associated with building them. Based on my experience as well, I'd say he's pretty close on the cost to build a CCV. Might be a little higher due to labor costs to build it...

Where he is wrong is where he starts talking about profit per amp. He's not considering any of the R&D costs that have gone into the amp, including whatever "bailout" had to be paid to Mark so he could live and pay the back rent he owed, etc. The amp was changed since Mark's original design to add midi, I believe there were some attempts at layout changes per Mark, so there was for sure R&D there. Also, you have to keep some amps, cabs, etc around for demos, etc. - that costs money as well. Of course, to be a real business, you have to have a pro website designed, have professional pictures taken, etc., etc., etc...

I doubt there has been any profit on the CCVs yet. If there is, there hasn't been much, believe me... I am amazed that, given everything I know about what this shit costs to get going, Brad has been able to deliver ANY of the amps to the guys that got screwed, and I commend him on that...

I'm doing the same thing in terms of building a repeatable amp business. Now, of course, mine is done from scratch (no existing PCB design) with only a turret board prototype, but nonetheless, I'm sure there have been significant costs that knucklefux hasn't thought about. I can't believe how much everything costs to get going and I can't believe how many stupid mistakes you make along the way that cost you big time. My amp works now with some hardwiring I did and I love how it sounds, but I still can't build quantities of them yet, because some traces need to be re-routed and I need a whole new set of final (I hope!) boards run and boy does that cost - probably $2K total because I have to make one off prototypes, including parts, etc. Believe me this eats up profit quickly, as you are in the hole BIG time before you can even sell amp one. I also had to have a second prototype head case built, because I specified the first one too small in depth and the knobs go past the end of the cab... Doh... $300 bucks down the drain... Now I'm trying to get front and back metal panels made for the head cases and that is taking forever and will require expensive, one-off prototypes as did my chassis, etc., etc., etc... Now granted, once all prototypes are complete and you are making many amps, there are economies of scale that make the profit per amp better, but there are still all those up front costs.

I'm not complaining, because I really believe I've got something killer here and will be able to make some profit down the line, and truthfully, this isn't all about short term gain for me anyway. It is just something I really wanted to do and I have the money to fund the startup... Many people spout off about the price of "boutique" amps, but when you use great components and build only a few with high quality chassis, custom head cases, etc., the amount of profit isn't what people think...

Steve

Well, I apologize for talking out of my ass. I guess the point I was (poorly) trying to get across is that I too doubt there are any profits going on with Cameron Amplification quite yet. I don't know, it's none of my business, but I do know the costs associated with running (and starting) a business. I do know the costs associated with building an amp (direct costs) is not the end of expenses. If Gross Profit = Net Profit, I'd be a happy guy. If it were that easy to make a company turn a 100% profit in a year, everyone would do it.

Oh, hey man - I wasn't calling you out in any way, shape or form. Frankly, you are 100% right. I was just clarifying who the guy was and what he knows, while supporting your point...

BTW - did I sell you the guitar in your avatar? Can't remember...

Steve

Ah, no butthurt from me. I was OBVIOUSLY wrong when I said he never started or ran a business and for that I was talking out my ass. I will say that if he manages his accounting in the manner in which he analyzed the cost of amps, profit, etc. I would NOT want him running my business.

I got the guitar in my avatar from a closing studio. I believe it was in Texas.

Ah, OK! I had one just like it that I sold. That is a really rare J-Custom. Only 6 made... Enjoy!

Steve

 

[HerbieBoogie]

i think this thread should be moved to HCAF Refugee Shanty Town...

 

[steve_k]

Think I am going to go skin up.....

 

[Les Zombie]

Mark cameron did mods on marshalls right, well arent those mods based on certain amps to get 80s tones.
sure a cameron can get other types of tones but so can alot of amps, but wouldnt it be accurate to say the 80s tones is where it started with mark and that his amps is gonna excell at doing them. so why bother getting annoyed when thats what teh amp was designed for and even if it can do other tones it will still be known for getting great 80s tones and therefor it should be known as a 80s amp.

I been here for years and you guys are the only guys that spend as much time as you do talking about camerons,friedmans,fortins, splawns and whatever other 80s modded amp thats out there, and theres no doubt that theres alot of rigtalkers that love charvels or those types of guitars.

so instead of getting uptight i think you should just accept the fact that rig-talk is known as the older guys 80s style guitars and amps forum.

its doesnt matter how many people around here doesnt play those amps and guitars because thats how your percieved and its not gonna change.
if there was a poll i would bet atleast 50% of you guys are older 80s guys if you answered honestly, and then theres the rest.

 

[Anonymous]

Mark cameron did mods on marshalls right, well arent those mods based on certain amps to get 80s tones.
sure a cameron can get other types of tones but so can alot of amps, but wouldnt it be accurate to say the 80s tones is where it started with mark and that his amps is gonna excell at doing them. so why bother getting annoyed when thats what teh amp was designed for and even if it can do other tones it will still be known for getting great 80s tones.

Your logic makes no sense. To be clear, I'm not annoyed, just pointing out the silliness going on stereotyping the amp based on a few clips...

The CCV was not designed in the 80s, nor was it designed for people to play 80s rock on. It is a very versatile amp that excels at many different types of music. Plenty of people use the CCV for modern metal and it excels at that. What is stupid is people saying it is a "cock rock 80s amp" just because they heard clips of the amp with people playing 80s stuff and they haven't heard the more modern clips. Also, an opinion is best formed when playing the amp, which very few people have for a variety of reasons. It is just knee-jerk bullshit that has no basis in fact and your logic above is kinda similar (no offense). Truth is, Mark took older designs and refined them just like every generation of amp modders/builders have done since the original circuits. Mark built the amp to get a variety of different sounds, many WAY heavier sounding then any 80s stuff I ever heard. Many men on HCAF spewing the knee-jerk bullshit would enjoy these tones for the music they play if they actually played one.

i been here for years and you guys are the only guys that spend as much time as you do talking about camerons,friedmans,fortins, splawns and wherever other 80s modded amp thats out there, and theres no doubt that theres alot of rigtalkers that love charvels or those types of guitars.

Ummm... So what? What does that have to do with Mark's amps, specifically, except that people here who buy them tend to make 80s clips with them? And to stereotype all those amps as 80s modded amps is ridiculous as I've been pointing out

so instead of getting uptight i think you shopuld just accept the fact that rig-talk is known as the older guys 80s style guitars and amps forum.

I believe all stereotypes have some semblance of truth to them. Just like you should accept that HCAF is known as younger guys who like talking about their bowel movements, dinner plans, etc. rather than amps. See how that works? And, once again, I'm not uptight about these stereotypes at all as my previous posts in this thread make clear. I hang at both sites and like them both...

its doesnt matter how many people around here doesnt play those amps and guitars because thats how your percieved and its not gonna change.
if there was a poll i would be atleast 50% of you guys are older 80s guys, and then theres the rest.

And once again, right back at HCAF and so what?

Steve

 

[Les Zombie]

steve i dont have a problem accepting how hcaf is known, it doesnt bother me, i know exactly what it is and so does everybody else.
but you rigtalk guys really get bent out of shape when your known as the 80s forum and all you care about is camerons and charvels, and thats because you guys are usually talking about them.
rigtalk is a older crowd that trys to stay on topic and you guys try to be serious men.
i dont see why there should be a problem if thats what you guys like. as for the hcaf people they are a bunch of jokers that bust peoples balls and once and a while talk about gear.

stereotypes haha

hcaf= boys and silly monkeys
RIGtalk = serious men.


i like both places for different reasons.

 

[Anonymous]

steve i dont have a problem accepting how hcaf is known, it doesnt bother me, i know exactly what it is and so does everybody else.
but you rigtalk guys really get bent out of shape when your known as the 80s forum and all you care about is camerons and charvels, and thats because you guys are usually talking about them.
rigtalk is a older crowd that trys to stay on topic and you guys try to be serious men.
i dont see why there should be a problem if thats what you guys like. as for the hcaf people they are a bunch of jokers that bust peoples balls and once and a while talk about gear.

stereotypes haha

hcaf= boys and silly monkeys
RIGtalk = serious men.


i like both places for different reasons.

I agree with everything you said in this post except that people here get bent out of shape over being stereotyped as old/serious/on topic/80s/Cameron/Charvel lovers. I think most here are amused by it and agree...

Steve

 

[Les Zombie]

so if a cameron isnt a 80s amp then how did it get this stereotype, what would make people think something like that and give the amp a label of being a 80s amp.
Is it because he modded so many marshall amps over the years or is it the users and their videos they post.

 

[Anonymous]

so if a cameron isnt a 80s amp then how did it get this stereotype, what would make people think something like that and give the amp a label of being a 80s amp.
Is it because he modded so many marshall amps over the years or is it the users and their videos they post.

1.) Because Mark started modding late in that era and some pretty influential 80s guys used his amps then
2.) Lots of guys here dig those influential 80s players and so the street cred around Mark grew (rightly so IMO)
3.) When he started with the CCV, many 80s men here got in line for them and a few actually got one
4.) The clips that most of these dudes made, especially early on, were of 80s style music

That is what I think anyway...

Steve

 

[rlord1974]

so if a cameron isnt a 80s amp then how did it get this stereotype, what would make people think something like that and give the amp a label of being a 80s amp.
Is it because he modded so many marshall amps over the years or is it the users and their videos they post.

It's because every clip of the amp online has someone either playing "Lay It Down" or "Bark At The Moon". Simple, really.

 

[Anonymous]

so if a cameron isnt a 80s amp then how did it get this stereotype, what would make people think something like that and give the amp a label of being a 80s amp.
Is it because he modded so many marshall amps over the years or is it the users and their videos they post.

It's because every clip of the amp online has someone either playing "Lay It Down" or "Bark At The Moon". Simple, really.

Well... it's a cock rock 80s amp, what do you expect?

Steve

 

[Les Zombie]

thanks steve and rlord1974

 

[LP Freak]

This thread will be 20 pages before you know it.

 

[Chubtone]

Think I am going to go skin up.....

I don't know what this means exactly, but if there is any skin involved, I would dissuade you from taking pics or videos of this event.