Schenker's place in the guitar god hierarchy

[jabps]

But Hendrix way more than EVH.

Before Hendrix, 'rock' music wasn't as evolved or established. Hendrix put a huge stamp on it. Think of it; how did most bands sound in '66 vs. '69/70?
But if you look at VH1 in '78, (hard)rock was already well underway. Of course EVH *did* influence whole slew of guitarists, but I think, while EVH is IMO definitely #2 as a (rock)guitarplayer gamechanger, his influence on steering the overall music and genre wasn't as profound as that of Hendrix.

Now, back on topic when it comes to Schenker; a great player sure, awesome phrasing and idiosyncracies that aren't mere racing down the fretboard and noodling.
There's a specific part in one of his solo's in the album version of Lights Out, where I can completely pinpoint his influence on Mercyful Fate.

Listen here around 2m11s (when the modulation happens



And then compare it to the intro solo of Mercyful Fate's "Corpse without a soul" around 0m12s:


Funnily enough, both in the key of C#, and both feature that natural minor line (C#, D#, E) with very similar phrasing, that almost suggests it's a phrygian line.

We'll have to agree to disagree. EVH's impact was immense. When you're playing and influence starts filtering into all genre's of music that's game changing. Further, when established players started going back to the drawing board and incorporating some of what he was doing, again game changing. To me that is no different than what what Jimi did. Both opened new avenue's on guitar, both influenced their peers and both influenced all that followed to the point that even if you don't like EVH or Jimi, more than likely some nuance of their playing has filtered into what we do even if indirectly. As for bands of EVH's era...you had Kiss, Queen, Lizzy, Nugent, Cheap Trick etc... Look what happened several years after VH's debut. Most everyone was trying to cop that recipe. All that and EVH isn't even in my personal top five favorite players. I just respect what he did, what he accomplished and I'm old enough to know rock music before VH and after they debuted, as I said above they were like a bomb that went off. But as you said...veering off topic.

 

[Techdeth]

EVH is the #1 rock player of all time. Everything about his playing, songwriting and musicianship was top level. No one inspired more to pick up and learn the instrument. #2 would have to be Hendrix. Then, it gets debatable.
MS is a fantastic effortlessly smooth player with great recognizable vibrato; deserves a spot in the top 10 but isn’t on the same level as EVH.
Sorry.

Eddie is always on in my house . In fact Wolfgang needs to get some new stuff out . I think about this daily

 

[CarlF]

Isn't this about Schenker? Why does EVH always have to be brought in to it? I saw UFO in '75 opening for Rainbow. What a ripping melodic player.
I saw VH in '78 blowing Sabbath off the stage. Absolutely firing on all cylinders, it was something to behold. They did different things. In terms of improvising epic solos on the fly, Schenker by a mile.
As the the EVH/ Hendrix impact. EVH is a distant 2nd, IMO. Jimi played/ jammed w/ everybody. Wrote better tunes and sang and was a devistating showman.
Where's EVH's Elelectric Ladyland? An album way ahead of it's time. Where's EVH's Machine Gun?
Jimi made history at certain performences. EVH? Not so much. Not at all. Erratic soloing, broken up w/ constant G-string dive-bombs. Big deal. The whole tapping thing was annoying. Like a typewriter. Great rhythm player. The few times he jammed, he got his ass handed to him. Holdsworth? Are you kidding. Jimi would have destroyed him.

 

[WhiteShadow]

Sorry, but nobody is up there with Eddie except for maybe Yngwie. Not even Randy Rhoads holds a candle to Eddie. Eddie just blew them all away with the relentless amounts of techniques, innovations, and trends that he set, just about all of which stuck and made a huge impact.

However, I do think Schenker is a solid player, and could play basically anything.

 

[4406cuda]

I learned a lot from Schenker playing to Strangers in the Night. As I said earlier, I like Van Halen's playing, but I prefer listening to Schenker and Rhoads.

 

[Racerxrated]

Isn't this about Schenker? Why does EVH always have to be brought in to it? I saw UFO in '75 opening for Rainbow. What a ripping melodic player.
I saw VH in '78 blowing Sabbath off the stage. Absolutely firing on all cylinders, it was something to behold. They did different things. In terms of improvising epic solos on the fly, Schenker by a mile.
As the the EVH/ Hendrix impact. EVH is a distant 2nd, IMO. Jimi played/ jammed w/ everybody. Wrote better tunes and sang and was a devistating showman.
Where's EVH's Elelectric Ladyland? An album way ahead of it's time. Where's EVH's Machine Gun?
Jimi made history at certain performences. EVH? Not so much. Not at all. Erratic soloing, broken up w/ constant G-string dive-bombs. Big deal. The whole tapping thing was annoying. Like a typewriter. Great rhythm player. The few times he jammed, he got his ass handed to him. Holdsworth? Are you kidding. Jimi would have destroyed him.

Dude, clearly we know you are the #1 Hendrix fan on here. But some of your reasoning…..Hendrix is either 1 or 2, period. But, where’s his album way ahead of it’s time?? Uh, how about VH1?
That album knocked the music world on its ass. Period. And, do you listen to EVHs leads on those early records? It ain’t all dive bombs/hammer ons.
Tons of bands/guitar players copied his sound/style/tricks etc.
Hendrix/EVH are different styles, blues-rock vs hard rock. Hard to compare but when you look at how many players picked up the instrument, I’d bet more did because of EVH.
Clearly though, you’re talking about the top 2 of all time imo.

 

[Metalhex]

Where's EVH's Machine Gun?

Uhh have you heard EVH's Eruption?

 

[JimAnsell]

i love MS' playing. i've bite my fair share from his style. Not such a fan of His checkered past. Dude fucked over a lot of people, and did some scary dumb shit back in the day. Burning his own home down, with his family inside, because david krebs couldn't get him cocaine from across the ocean. google it.

 

[Stradazone]

I'm a huge Schenker fan, more of the solo era but I do love UFO as well! comparing to EVH is apples and oranges, VH had much more radio mass appeal, Schenker will always be in my top 5, on a side note..back in the 90's there was a bunch of equipment sold that belonged to Schenker to pay for his either rehearsal or storage room. Someone at Fender took over selling the gear. I ended up buying my 1st TC2290 with TC pedalboard that supposedly belonged to him there was also a rare Suhr prototype preamp, pre CAE3+ that I checked out at the time from the sale but I turned down purchasing it since I thought something was wrong with it, I later regretted it since I could of had John Suhr tweak it and bring it up to specs..

 

[jabps]

Isn't this about Schenker? Why does EVH always have to be brought in to it?

It was brought up by the OP.

 

[Jack Luminous]

Uhh...I have them at 1A and 1B.

And I don't see how you could put Jimi in the musical genius category and not put Ed in there as well. Both were game changers upon arrival, both influenced well established peers at the time and all those that followed.

In many ways they are exactly alike in their influence and impact on music and guitar playing.

Both are musical geniuses but not of the same caliber. Eddie is a genius of course but in the same way that Allan Holdsworth is a genius, or Yngwie Malmsteen or whoever you might want to consider in that category. Hendrix is up there with The Beatles and Elvis. It's different.

If you want a classical music analogy, Niccolo Paganini is an obvious musical genius. But JS Bach is way above.

 

[gbsmusic]

EVH is the #1 rock player of all time. Everything about his playing, songwriting and musicianship was top level. No one inspired more to pick up and learn the instrument. #2 would have to be Hendrix. Then, it gets debatable.
MS is a fantastic effortlessly smooth player with great recognizable vibrato; deserves a spot in the top 10 but isn’t on the same level as EVH.
Sorry.

You hit it right on the head end of subject!

 

[jabps]

Both are musical geniuses but not of the same caliber. Eddie is a genius of course but in the same way that Allan Holdsworth is a genius, or Yngwie Malmsteen or whoever you might want to consider in that category. Hendrix is up there with The Beatles and Elvis. It's different.

If you want a classical music analogy, Niccolo Paganini is an obvious musical genius. But JS Bach is way above.

My point was in response to the other comment of how can you have one as a genius and not the other. Granted it's opinion. Now do I think they were both geniuses on guitar, yes I do. One opened the door and the other took the opening and kicked it down.

Further I think people tend to confuse favorites and technical prowess as well. People can laugh all they want but who influenced more people to pick up a guitar, Ace Frehley or Yngwie? Think about it.

Btw/ would I consider Jimi alongside The Beatles and Elvis, no. They were iconic to the point that their influence went far beyond music and in the Beatles case, it influenced culture.

 

[Jack Luminous]

My point was in response to the other comment of how can you have one as a genius and not the other. Granted it's opinion. Now do I think they were both geniuses on guitar, yes I do. One opened the door and the other took the opening and kicked it down.

Further I think people tend to confuse favorites and technical prowess as well. People can laugh all they want but who influenced more people to pick up a guitar, Ace Frehley or Yngwie? Think about it.

Btw/ would I consider Jimi alongside The Beatles and Elvis, no. They were iconic to the point that their influence went far beyond music and in the Beatles case, it influenced culture.

I was talking only about music, not cultural influence or popularity in general. John Coltrane was certainly less popular than Ace Frehley. Still, he's up there with the Beatles (especially Lennon and McCartney), Elvis, Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley and a few others. EVH is not up there, no matter what. Nor Ace Frehley, no matter how many teenagers he influenced to take up a guitar. That's my own perception of things anyway and I can easily understand that other people would be in total disagreement with me.

 

[Mikeyboyeee]

Sorry, but nobody is up there with Eddie except for maybe Yngwie. Not even Randy Rhoads holds a candle to Eddie. Eddie just blew them all away with the relentless amounts of techniques, innovations, and trends that he set, just about all of which stuck and made a huge impact.

However, I do think Schenker is a solid player, and could play basically anything.

Jimmy >Eddie > Yngwie

 

[hammered]

Love Michael’s playing . He’s on my Mt Rushmore of favorite players

 

[CarlF]

Uhh have you heard EVH's Eruption?

Right, one tune a depiction of the Vietnam War that still influences guys 50 years later, compared to a Keg-Party band w/ Keg-Party tunes. Eruption is a jerkoff exercise. Not even music.
I don't blame you guys. Every era has it's greats. I'm a decade behind you guys

 

[Techdeth]

Finally a Rudolph Schenker post ! He does deserve more credit !

 

[napalmdeath]

Not to sound like a dick but they just never did anything for me. However-I have never given them a real listen if that makes sense?

Me neither. Never really got into Schenker, and some how don't think I'm missing out on anything. I know he's talented, but he's always looked like he crawled out from under a rock. That, and the numerous stories of his heavy boozing, and the people he's pissed off, he just didn't have my interest.

 

[rstites]

Isn't this about Schenker? Why does EVH always have to be brought in to it? I saw UFO in '75 opening for Rainbow. What a ripping melodic player.
I saw VH in '78 blowing Sabbath off the stage. Absolutely firing on all cylinders, it was something to behold. They did different things. In terms of improvising epic solos on the fly, Schenker by a mile.

Man, UFO with Schenker and Rainbow with Blackmore is a serious show. UFO with Schenker was top notch. He's one of my favorite guitar players of my youth. He has a tremendous sense of melody and phrasing, and he wrote arguably the best riff in hard rock history. Blackmore is up there, and with RJD on vocals they had powerhouse albums......those runs he can pull off.