School me on PCP versus PCB versus handwired/ YJM content

[AndyKE]

I have the JVM 410 H and it really is a very versatile head with a very good, warm, organic tone. Very good sounding at moderate to low volumes too. When i saw the YJM coming out i thought, i must have this one too, but..
For some time ago i got the chance to play a Marshall 1959 HW head. Really really impressive tone. And to be honest the tone i got from it felt maybe even better than what i get form my JVM.But on the other hand the 1959 head lacks a lot of features the JVM has. It does not sing at lower volumes like the JVM does. Has to be turned up like hell to get to higher gain stages. That i find major drawbacks. Well one could get an attenuator + a pedal etc. But i prefer a simple set up like amp- guitar.
So now comes the question: I read that the PCB used in the newer Marshalls are of low quality compared to the Bogner PCB constructions. These amps are supposed to work for a limited number of years before they finish to work properly due to the low quality PCB construction. Repair is rather very complicated compared to a handwired amp. Are these myths or is that wright?
Sorry i do not have the slightest clue about amp construction and the like so thanks a lot to everyone who can shed a light on pros and cons on this matter.
Best Andy

 

[Digital Jams]

Well the 1959HW is a single channel amp for one thing, it only does one thing while the JVM is a multichannel platform that does many things. The chances are that the JVM will encounter a problem before the HW but not because of turret vs pcb but because the JVM has more things that can fail.

I will bet a large amount of money that there are more jvms on the road being used professionally than bogner as well.

 

[mrhiwatt]

I have had both hand wired ptp and pcb board amps. I can hear or see no difference. They are just 2 different ways to get the job done. You may argue that a ptp turret board is easier to replace a component on than a circuit board. But I agree with other poster that there are many more circuit board amps in use and that are just as reliable as ptp. I had a ptp Hiwatt Dr504 and a circuit board Hiwatt Lead 30 I now have JVM pcp and have no problem either. I also used to own a 1959 a completely different animal than the JVM. If you like the JVM and its versatility keep it. The New YJM is cool but it is still a 1959. They are great amps but you have to learn to run it from your guitar and utilize pedals etc if you want clean and dirty tones.

MrHiwatt

 

[JakeAC5253]

I'm certainly no expert on this matter, but here is how I understand it. PCB traces can be thin (if they are cheaply made) and exposed. This can lead to RF interference or noise if the chassis is not shielded well. Well made PCB's use thicker traces and higher quality trace metal which limits this. PTP uses insulated wires instead, supposedly less chance for interference, but you do accumulate cable capacitance. Putting even a small amount of capacitance between key components can and will change the final output tone, for the darker. Is this better? That is up to you. To me, the actual circuit design itself, the component tolerance swing, and the way in which it is laid out makes an exponentially larger difference than the inter-component interface method. Even two identical circuits with differing ground networks will sound different. But I would be a fool to not acknowledge the inherent differences between PCB and PTP designs. There is a well thought out write up on Bogner's website that accurately explains how a well-made PCB can sound just the same or better than PTP designs.

 

[AndyKE]

Thanks a lot. Very informative. And Mr. Hiwatt regarding" The New YJM is cool but it is still a 1959. They are great amps but you have to learn to run it from your guitar and utilize pedals etc if you want clean and dirty tones." Ooopss. Wasn`t aware of that fact. Thought it was a footswitchable two channeler??

Output (RMS 100/50 Watt
Channels: 2
3 Band EQ: Bass, Middle & Treble
Electronic Power Attenuation: 100%-0.01%
Boost Function
Noise Gate
Reverb
Series Effects Loop
Auto Bias Feature
Preamp Valves: 4x ECC83
Power Amp Valves: 4x EL34
Footswitch: PEDL-00046 (Supplied)
Dimensions: 745 x 290 x 280mm

 

[JB6464]

The big difference that concerns me that i see in PTP verses PCB is how the power tube seats are connected.
Some PCB amp designs have the tube seats mounted directly on the PCB. I think that's a very bad design. If your output tube seat fails from heavy use, it usally takes resistors and other parts with it.
Preamp tube seats mounted to a PCB is ok , they are low voltage and rarely go down. But the power section of a tube amp is high voltage and shit hits the fan real fast when it fails.
So i would be concerned more about the construction of the PCB and layout of a amp than anything else.
Sure PTP amps are easier to repair , but they have drawbacks as well. Like bad or cracked solder joints from heavy use over time.

 

[mrhiwatt]

It ts not a foot switchable 2 channel amp with dedicated clean and dirty. You have normal channel and a bright channel that you can plug into one at a time or jumper the 2 together. They both have 1 volume knob/gain and use the same tone knobs. They do not foot switch. You can foot switch a built in boost/overdive. The difference is the built in power scaling which allows you to overdrive the power section of this non master volume model without going deaf. Depending on what you are trying to play you cannot have crystal clean and heavy distortion with out the help of either the built in Dod pedal or an external overdrive or distortion pedal. I set up my 1959 for mid range crunch and use od's for solos or heavy passages and use the guitars volume knob to try to clean it up for cleaner stuff. Some users also used tape delays in front of the amp ala Blackmore to make it distort more Remember the 1959 is not a metal amp by itself it always need help to go into heavy music.The JVM utilizes preamp distortion with a clean poweramp which merely amplifies the preamp signal and does not add any distortion/crunch.
Both great sounding amps just different ways to use them.

MrHiwatt

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I have the JVM 410 H and it really is a very versatile head with a very good, warm, organic tone. Very good sounding at moderate to low volumes too. When i saw the YJM coming out i thought, i must have this one too, but..
For some time ago i got the chance to play a Marshall 1959 HW head. Really really impressive tone. And to be honest the tone i got from it felt maybe even better than what i get form my JVM.But on the other hand the 1959 head lacks a lot of features the JVM has. It does not sing at lower volumes like the JVM does. Has to be turned up like hell to get to higher gain stages. That i find major drawbacks. Well one could get an attenuator + a pedal etc. But i prefer a simple set up like amp- guitar.
So now comes the question: I read that the PCB used in the newer Marshalls are of low quality compared to the Bogner PCB constructions. These amps are supposed to work for a limited number of years before they finish to work properly due to the low quality PCB construction. Repair is rather very complicated compared to a handwired amp. Are these myths or is that wright?
Sorry i do not have the slightest clue about amp construction and the like so thanks a lot to everyone who can shed a light on pros and cons on this matter.
Best Andy

This sounds like the cliff notes version of a recent TGP thread comparing these two amps, Marshall pcb quality/thin traces, planned obsolescence/life expectancy compared to "40 years" out of the old ones...

 

[Shiny_Surface]

The big difference that concerns me that i see in PTP verses PCB is how the power tube seats are connected.
Some PCB amp designs have the tube seats mounted directly on the PCB. I think that's a very bad design. If your output tube seat fails from heavy use, it usally takes resistors and other parts with it.
Preamp tube seats mounted to a PCB is ok , they are low voltage and rarely go down. But the power section of a tube amp is high voltage and shit hits the fan real fast when it fails.
So i would be concerned more about the construction of the PCB and layout of a amp than anything else.
Sure PTP amps are easier to repair , but they have drawbacks as well. Like bad or cracked solder joints from heavy use over time.

PCB mounted power tubes seems to be a growing trend, even with some of the higher end amp lines.

 

[JB6464]

The big difference that concerns me that i see in PTP verses PCB is how the power tube seats are connected.
Some PCB amp designs have the tube seats mounted directly on the PCB. I think that's a very bad design. If your output tube seat fails from heavy use, it usally takes resistors and other parts with it.
Preamp tube seats mounted to a PCB is ok , they are low voltage and rarely go down. But the power section of a tube amp is high voltage and shit hits the fan real fast when it fails.
So i would be concerned more about the construction of the PCB and layout of a amp than anything else.
Sure PTP amps are easier to repair , but they have drawbacks as well. Like bad or cracked solder joints from heavy use over time.

PCB mounted power tubes seems to be a growing trend, even with some of the higher end amp lines.

True , because it's cheaper to design and build it that way.
I don't hear any sound difference but if i'm paying big bucks for a nice amp whether it's PTP or PCB design , i would be concerned on the layout design for future repairs when needed down the road.
Most amp companies don't expect the amp to last like they use to. Trends change and people swap amps like guitar chords these days.
I'll stick with companies like Soldano ,that don't take shortcuts when they build a boutique amp.

 

[Ancient Alien]

It's all a bunch of bullcrappery.....
What matters is the sound that is coming out from the speakers, not how it's built.
Had a JVM since day one, and it sounds better than any PTP Marshall I ever owned.