Selling gear

[brickford]

I was selling a Diezel VH4 on ebay for £1800 and was getting countless people saying its only worth a grand.. . (£2400+ for brand new!), odd how its supposedly "worth a grand" yet never see one for sale at that price?
Told them all to Fxxk off...
A week later a dude clicks buys it now, pays £1800 , a week later he tells me its the best decision he's ever made and the amp is well worth the money...

But... i am guilty of trying to convince a seller of Gold horsy Klon that its only worth £300 when its up for sale at £1000

 

[D-Rock]

Yeah I listed an amp at $550 and a got an email from a guy that just said;

$300


No hello, no words, just his offer of $250 less than my asking. I mean come on, it's only $550 bucks. Offer $250 less if I was asking $1550, but not at $550. This isn't a haggle flea market where I'm going to come back with a price of $400.
I told him it was a space issue, and I didn't need the money that bad. The amp is 1k new and you have the chance to buy for half that.

No response.

 

[satannica]

Actually, it *IS* true when it comes to selling an item (actual economics) but maybe not when it comes to personal value (emotional economics).

Let's use one of your properties as an example.

Scenario 1) You list a property for sale for that you bought for $100k. You agree to sell that property for $90k. The "value" of the property is $90k. You lost $10k on the sale (actual economics). You are sad (emotional economics).

Scenario 2) You list a property for sale for that you bought $100k. You agree to sell the property for $150k. The value of the property is $150k and you made a profit of $50k. (actual economics). You are happy (emotional economics).

Because the property was WORTH $100k to you (your asking price/value), are you going to refund the $50k profit to the purchaser? Did not think so.

I've bought and sold plenty properties. To date, I've not made a loss on any of them. However, selling a property below what you bought it for is simply down to market conditions; usually you're selling to buy another and the one you're buying is usually of a lower value regardless. Really, your scenarios, while very pretty, are still no justification for lowballing.

The reality is, you buy a widget for £1000. The used going rate is about £500. You list it for that. Everyone demands it at £200. You wait a few months and end up selling it at £500. Or you end up just keeping it.

 

[Bob Savage]

Because it's not true no matter how much you want it to be! The world just doesn't work that way round, dude. Sure times are tight, nobody has much money and not as many things get sold these days. It doesn't mean that you should practically give your stuff away just because some entitled twit has a few hundred left over at the end of the month and fancies your gear! It may take me months rather than weeks to sell gear, but that's fine with me, I'm not desperate to sell. And I'm especially not selling on a £2300 for £750 just because nobody has £1500 hanging around - in fairness, who DOES have £1500 around right now? Even though I would have allowed myself to come down to £1300 say, who's even got that? Not many, in fairness - I know I don't!

To me, it's just like houses. For years, people have been walking around going "House prices are gonna fall by half" and "You're an idiot if you buy a house". Welp, I currently have four properties, one fully paid for, and not one of them has halved in value just yet. Amazingly, I'm not on the street begging for someone to give me half what my property is worth. And even if I was, I'd sooner burn them down rather than allow myself to get fkkked!

Wow, you are not getting it at all. Nobody is saying you should sell to lowballers. Your logic is sending you down a slippery slope and you're arguing from an extreme. The fact of the matter is, nothing is worth a dime unless somebody else is willing to pay a dime for it. I'm at a loss of how to even explain this concept to you if you don't understand it.

To use real estate speculation as a means to prove your point is... out there. There is no analogy there. People told you something was going to happen in the future, you didn't take their advice and what they told you didn't prove out. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Bob Savage]

Actually, it *IS* true when it comes to selling an item (actual economics) but maybe not when it comes to personal value (emotional economics).

Let's use one of your properties as an example.

Scenario 1) You list a property for sale for that you bought for $100k. You agree to sell that property for $90k. The "value" of the property is $90k. You lost $10k on the sale (actual economics). You are sad (emotional economics).

Scenario 2) You list a property for sale for that you bought $100k. You agree to sell the property for $150k. The value of the property is $150k and you made a profit of $50k. (actual economics). You are happy (emotional economics).

Because the property was WORTH $100k to you (your asking price/value), are you going to refund the $50k profit to the purchaser? Did not think so.

Or according to satanica you buy a house for $100k and comparable houses are now going for $90k. According to Satanica it's still worth $100k so he lists it at that price and of course nobody buys it. The property is still still worth $100k in his mind, even though nobody will buy it for $100k.

Alex, what is reasoning in a circle for $50?

 

[gtr31]

2 pet peeves in selling gear .

1.When you have unique or uncommon stuff in a smaller city like Elmwood, Baron. People just want to come by and try it .

2. Anytime i use Kijji I get a promising email that 1 or 2 laters turns into.

I will pay your asking price .but because i am busy and out of town right now (overseas ,in Africa on business for a month ,working on an oil rig)
I will have my (secretary ,confident, uncle) arrange for a pick up no cost to you .
Do you accept paypal .."oh wait there seems to be an issue with paypal right now I am sure it will be fixed in a day or so"
BTW will you accept Western union money transfer as I can do that right today

 

[Shark Diver]

I just want to know how he got a loan for $150k on a house valued at $100k? It's like 2006 all over again.

I don't know? Any of you guys selling your Camerons, LPs, Soldanos, etc at 2/3 the new price a month later hit me up. I can start flipping gear again. Daddy needs a new pair of shoes...

Yes, we put a value on things based on past market history. But ultimately Bob is correct - it's only worth what someone will pay.

 

[memberzonly]

Love ya Bob.

Emotional Economics 101. An argument I had with my Philosophy professor in college - Nothing has intrinsic value. It only possesses the value WE ascribe to it. Same concept.

Maybe I'm a nihilist. The Dude abides.

Actually, it *IS* true when it comes to selling an item (actual economics) but maybe not when it comes to personal value (emotional economics).

Let's use one of your properties as an example.

Scenario 1) You list a property for sale for that you bought for $100k. You agree to sell that property for $90k. The "value" of the property is $90k. You lost $10k on the sale (actual economics). You are sad (emotional economics).

Scenario 2) You list a property for sale for that you bought $100k. You agree to sell the property for $150k. The value of the property is $150k and you made a profit of $50k. (actual economics). You are happy (emotional economics).

Because the property was WORTH $100k to you (your asking price/value), are you going to refund the $50k profit to the purchaser? Did not think so.

Or according to satanica you buy a house for $100k and comparable houses are now going for $90k. According to Satanica it's still worth $100k so he lists it at that price and of course nobody buys it. The property is still still worth $100k in his mind, even though nobody will buy it for $100k.

Alex, what is reasoning in a circle for $50?

 

[racerevlon]

Stock market, baby. Check out the "Last" column.

If no one wants to buy your item, I don't give a F*%& what it appraised at, it's worth nothing.

 

[GtarLover]

Just was thinking about the negotiating thing...

I mean, if I list something at a reasonable price and I include shipping, then I am simply saying that the shipping is built into the price. The thing that then happens is the inevitable lower offer that still wants to include shipping and by the way PayPal fees as well.
Come on, everyone likes a deal, but the reason we trade and sell gear to each other is we can set a price that includes shipping and fees and that's a reasonable price with everything included.
Of course there is always the out there pricing, but for the most part I think pricing is pretty close and fair.

Thing is, if you want the "best" price, that is available, however buyers need to also be willing to pony up for shipping and fees (I'm talking PayPal for example) if getting an awesome deal on the gear itself.
Am I crazy here or doesn't it make sense that you don't get the "best" price AND shipping AND fees included.
If you want to grind me down on a price and then bitch about shipping and fees, I think something is wrong.

Most of us aren't Musicians Friend or Sweetwater here and shipping plus fees is getting to be a bigger slice of the pie. At least that's what I'm seeing.
What's the protocol here, I mean if we were to somehow agree
Shipping and fees can be significant...
Maybe it has to be like eBay's Buy It Now, where if you bid lower, the Buy It Now price with free shipping disappears.
Hmmm...

 

[borninwinter]

Agree that there is no value other than what someone else will pay. I think a lot of the lowballing that goes into gear sales is that people think or hope that musicians either need to move it quickly/need the money or aren't very sophisticated about business. On the flip side of not understanding value, I also see lots of instances where someone buys new, tries it out for a month or so, then tries to sell it as "new" and thinks that someone will buy it for like $200 off the new price...if I'm spending 2-3k on an amp anyway, why wouldn't I just spend the extra $200 and get the warranty (and return period if you get it from a sweetwater, etc.).

I don't remember where I saw this, but someone said used gear goes for 65% of the current new price more or less (assuming its not rare or one off stuff). This is total + shipping, whether you charge for shipping or just roll it into the price. I've found this to be more or less accurate whether you auction it off on ebay or negotiate the price. You can get a little more off ebay in total since the market is so big, but you lose it in fees. If you're really desperate and sell to GC, 65% is where they'll list it, and then they give you about 65% of their used listing price. Some times you get lucky with a sale, but most of the time that's about where it's going to end up unless you have something really special.

 

[satannica]

No no, I do get you. It can take an awful long time to actually get gear sold, especially if it's a higher value item. However, the fact that nobody can afford it right now that second, doesn't make if value-less!

If that's the case, please ship me all the gear you're intending on selling; I would hate for you to be burdened with it!

 

[Deleted member 8761]

No no, I do get you. It can take an awful long time to actually get gear sold, especially if it's a higher value item. However, the fact that nobody can afford it right now that second, doesn't make if value-less!

If that's the case, please ship me all the gear you're intending on selling; I would hate for you to be burdened with it!

Sorry man, but I respectfully disagree. The market price is a result of supply and demand, right here and now. The current value is not something what it is actually worth in a few months. All circumstances and the expectations of future events are reflected in the current pricing. If there is no money is the market, prices will fall (demand!). This is what's happening in Europe with the pricing of houses (on the continent). No financing possible, hence less demand. What you are doing is just waiting for the price to go up in a few months. The current price is however lower. The market is always right.

Anyway, I hate the lowballers too. Emotional pricing is happening a lot these days.

 

[Ventura]

Love ya Bob.

Emotional Economics 101. An argument I had with my Philosophy professor in college - Nothing has intrinsic value. It only possesses the value WE ascribe to it. Same concept.

Maybe I'm a nihilist. The Dude abides.

+1

Hey, this is a great thread. There's actually some solid intellectual debate happening here, in some well delivered prose. I'm just getting in, apologies. I have to say, while the ol' adage of "it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it" is a strong 'tendency' and belief in the minimalist notion of economics, there is the fact that there are two sides to every equation - specifically - buyer and seller. So ya, it's also got the component of "only worth what someone is willing to sell it for" too. There's got to be that side factored in as well.

Just saying - I see this a lot in my job, and it truly is, a 2 way street.

 

[borninwinter]

Hey, this is a great thread. There's actually some solid intellectual debate happening here, in some well delivered prose. I'm just getting in, apologies. I have to say, while the ol' adage of "it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it" is a strong 'tendency' and belief in the minimalist notion of economics, there is the fact that there are two sides to every equation - specifically - buyer and seller. So ya, it's also got the component of "only worth what someone is willing to sell it for" too. There's got to be that side factored in as well.

Just saying - I see this a lot in my job, and it truly is, a 2 way street.

Agree - but I think it's really just saying the same thing in a different way. If it's not selling and it something people want at the moment (e.g. house, boutique amp), it's because there are sellers out there willing to sell it for less. I would have paid more than I did for my VH4, but I didn't have to. If there was only one that I could find after looking for a while and they guy was selling it for say $3600 used, I would have paid that. Fortuanately, there are actually a good number of them out there, and some people would rather have the sale than the extra few hundred. Supply and demand - when there is more supply, the sellers have to compete for sales. When there is more demand, buyers will compete and shoot up the prices.

 

[guitarmike]

No no, I do get you. It can take an awful long time to actually get gear sold, especially if it's a higher value item. However, the fact that nobody can afford it right now that second, doesn't make if value-less!

If that's the case, please ship me all the gear you're intending on selling; I would hate for you to be burdened with it!

Sorry man, but I respectfully disagree. The market price is a result of supply and demand, right here and now. The current value is not something what it is actually worth in a few months. All circumstances and the expectations of future events are reflected in the current pricing. If there is no money is the market, prices will fall (demand!). This is what's happening in Europe with the pricing of houses (on the continent). No financing possible, hence less demand. What you are doing is just waiting for the price to go up in a few months. The current price is however lower. The market is always right.

Anyway, I hate the lowballers too. Emotional pricing is happening a lot these days.

When we sell gear we all hate lowballers. When we buy gear we want it as cheap as possible. If I am serious about buying something I am not afraid to throw a low price out first, you never know. It also depends on the asking price, many, many of us have paid more for modded amps a few years ago than they sell for now. You may have paid $2800 for a Cameron modded Marshall in 2008, unfortunately they sell for less than $1900 today. It sucks but it is what it is. The important point is to be serious and ready to buy if you throw a price to a seller and sellers need to set realistic prices.

If you hate lowballers you should hate people that go on fishing expeditions when selling with a stupid high asking price.

 

[Aristocat]

When I buy, I'm not going to buy unless I really have the money. If a guy is selling an amp for $1,500 (and just because I've never played it) I'm not going to offer a grand and tire kick all day at the expense of his/her electric bill.

I would instead offer $1,350 and that's it. I think 100-250 off the top for an item that A. has been sitting for a good while (month) and B. starts at a min. of $1,700 is reasonable. That's me though.

It's all pieces of wood and metal that will far out last me when I'm dead and gone.

 

[psyandy]

The problem with online sites and Craigslist is the ease by which kids and trollers have a venue for bothering us all. Serious bidders are hidden in the weeds sometimes.

 

[9ball]

There's some douche who.constatly posts on the st louis c/l that things are overpriced.the way i see it people can ask for whatever they want - if you dont want it dont buy it. If i list a pair of speakers for 5 grand big deal - dont buy it lol

 

[dsquared]

Not throwing stones at anyone, but the attitude of 'my gear is worth what I say is, period' can be just as annoying as the lowballer mentality. But, I respect an individual's right to ask or offer whatever they choose.

I trust in the free market when it comes to selling gear. Buyers and sellers are free to name their prices, and the market will sort it out.