Short scale strat neck question? Anyone tried one?

[stratotone]

The Warmoth 24.75" necks are a replacement for 25.5" necks, so for a couple hundred bucks you could try it out. If you didn't like it, flip the neck and you're not out much $ at all. If you did like it, flip the neck you replaced. Easy peasy.

Pete

Even if the neck fits into the neck pocket perfectly, the pickups will be under the wrong harmonic node locations when swapping in a different scale neck.

I disagree. the 22nd fret is going to be in nearly the same spot on either neck relative to the pickup, so the harmonic or 24th fret location you're worried about is going to be incredibly close. And the 'harmonic nodes' just get closer as you go up the neck/closer to the bridge pickup. So the other pickups aren't going to matter either.

I can post clips of a 24.75" scale guitar and a 25.5" scale guitar on neck pickups. I really don't think people are going to be able to tell which guitar is which every time just from the harmonic nodes.

This is actually a deep subject. Most luthiers who know what they are doing derive pickup positioning from precise mathematically derived measurements for a given scale length. Substituting an alternate scale length fretboard on a guitar where all 2 or 3 pickups and bridge unit are 'locked in place' throws the harmonic series off, in terms of what the pickups 'hear'. We seem to agree on this, but differ in the sense that you state the difference is negligable. I think there is a very audible difference and thats where I think we should agree to disagree.

FWIW one time I took an old beater guitar, and bent the pickup ears up so I could slide the pickup back towards the bridge or closer to the nut. Just moving it 1 or 2 mm resulted in huge tonal differences. In that test I did not alter the scale length of the instrument, but my point here is that the bridge pickup will be mounted closer to the bridge itself on a shorter scale instrument and further away on a longer scale instrument.

I like that answer much more than 'I hope you don't build guitars' and I can respect that. Agree to disagree and all that, but I do concede your point on moving the bridge pickup a little and the tone changes. I think it's more from it's distance to the bridge though more than harmonics and the bridge isn't moving if you swap the neck.

There is a tonal difference between the scales, IMHO because the strings aren't at the same amount of tension and it gets less percussive and a little warmer to my ears. Being cursed with small hands, i also have an easier time navigating a shorter scale. The lower tension is a bonus for me.

I do think the warmoth neck thing would be a good way to find out if the concept is right for the OP in a cheap way - because you could buy a new warmoth neck for $200ish with the short scale, see if the differences bugged you on a strat, and then either flip the warmoth neck or if you liked it the original neck. Was just trying to find ways for the original poster to try it out with the least amount of skin in the game.

 

[thegame]

The Warmoth 24.75" necks are a replacement for 25.5" necks, so for a couple hundred bucks you could try it out. If you didn't like it, flip the neck and you're not out much $ at all. If you did like it, flip the neck you replaced. Easy peasy.

Pete

Even if the neck fits into the neck pocket perfectly, the pickups will be under the wrong harmonic node locations when swapping in a different scale neck.

I disagree. the 22nd fret is going to be in nearly the same spot on either neck relative to the pickup, so the harmonic or 24th fret location you're worried about is going to be incredibly close. And the 'harmonic nodes' just get closer as you go up the neck/closer to the bridge pickup. So the other pickups aren't going to matter either.

I can post clips of a 24.75" scale guitar and a 25.5" scale guitar on neck pickups. I really don't think people are going to be able to tell which guitar is which every time just from the harmonic nodes.

This is actually a deep subject. Most luthiers who know what they are doing derive pickup positioning from precise mathematically derived measurements for a given scale length. Substituting an alternate scale length fretboard on a guitar where all 2 or 3 pickups and bridge unit are 'locked in place' throws the harmonic series off, in terms of what the pickups 'hear'. We seem to agree on this, but differ in the sense that you state the difference is negligable. I think there is a very audible difference and thats where I think we should agree to disagree.

FWIW one time I took an old beater guitar, and bent the pickup ears up so I could slide the pickup back towards the bridge or closer to the nut. Just moving it 1 or 2 mm resulted in huge tonal differences. In that test I did not alter the scale length of the instrument, but my point here is that the bridge pickup will be mounted closer to the bridge itself on a shorter scale instrument and further away on a longer scale instrument.

I like that answer much more than 'I hope you don't build guitars' and I can respect that. Agree to disagree and all that, but I do concede your point on moving the bridge pickup a little and the tone changes. I think it's more from it's distance to the bridge though more than harmonics and the bridge isn't moving if you swap the neck.

There is a tonal difference between the scales, IMHO because the strings aren't at the same amount of tension and it gets less percussive and a little warmer to my ears. Being cursed with small hands, i also have an easier time navigating a shorter scale. The lower tension is a bonus for me.

I do think the warmoth neck thing would be a good way to find out if the concept is right for the OP in a cheap way - because you could buy a new warmoth neck for $200ish with the short scale, see if the differences bugged you on a strat, and then either flip the warmoth neck or if you liked it the original neck. Was just trying to find ways for the original poster to try it out with the least amount of skin in the game.

When pressed for time, my posts sometimes come across as rude. Sorry about that ! And yes, the pup distance to the bridge results in a certain tone and the OP won't experience that part of the equation when swapping those necks. He will definitely hear the acoustic, unplugged tonal change and the pickups will certainly translate that, but again, its not quite the whole picture compared to if this guitar was a short scale instrument to begin with.

 

[ThrowBackMan]

I would think that a short scale instrument like an LP even on a strat would be a bit bass heavy or have less highs and mids, but that's just a guess, but I say this because the string length is going to be shorter it would seem and therefore as I normally, and have played many LP's and strats in my 53 years, I've always thought that LP type scale guitars such as Gibson's sound best for rhythm and chunky sounds in rock, and strats scales length guitars with the same type of humbuckers for instance sound better for articulation and lead. Just my opinion though, and I don't have any proof that this is the case. Just my ears tell me this and they could be wrong!

 

[crankyrayhanky]

FWIW one time I took an old beater guitar, and bent the pickup ears up so I could slide the pickup back towards the bridge or closer to the nut. Just moving it 1 or 2 mm resulted in huge tonal differences. In that test I did not alter the scale length of the instrument, but my point here is that the bridge pickup will be mounted closer to the bridge itself on a shorter scale instrument and further away on a longer scale instrument.

Interesting tech build stuff...I just saw a video of Merrow talking about his new Schecter guitar scale 26.5. The prototype had the bridge pickup moved a bit closer to the middle (not much). Merrow requested it be moved back closer to the bridge, and boom, he liked the sound. I wonder if this is a case of the builder presenting the mathematically correct location to adjust for the longer scale, and Merrow's ears (or illusion of it) told him otherwise.

 

[ThrowBackMan]

Hey Stratotone and thegame. I found this link and I think it's about what you guys are speaking of. It's like the discussion about tone wood and if it matters or it's all pickups that matter in electric solid bodies, etc,. Anyway, thought you two might find this interesting. I don't know if it's true or not, but this guy makes some seriously cool guitars in my humble opinion. He's a really good guy too! :=) Your milage may vary!
T
https://youtu.be/Fv3ijmNkq0s