Should I be upset? VIDEOS ADDED

[harddriver]

void pig = NTL

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Mr. Willy]

Here’s our email exchange where he says the $900-1100 guesstimate includes labor and parts. Read that, then go look at the bill.

 

[japetus]

I'm going back to the side of the luthier on this. What I'm seeing here is starting to look like extortion. I went back over this thread and found the inconsistencies that were bothering me. And read between the lines.

When did I ever say it sounded good? I haven’t even plugged it in yet. Haven’t had the stomach to.

Here’s what she looks like now. The frets feel good, and she plays good. Set up is good. And she looks good, if you don’t look too close. .

In another of your posts, you mentioned that you had received the guitar a couple weeks prior to starting the thread. So you had the guitar for a while, and said it plays good. You would be able to hear if it sounds the same even without plugging it in, so there was confirmation that his work did not adversely affect the tone.

When I talked to him a few days later, he requested $700 for hardware and to get the ball rolling. I thought that would be off the top of the guestimate above. I was wrong.

Apparently this was a very budget conscious build. He quoted you 1100 and then asked 700 for hardware, so the build came out on budget.

Think about it, if he quotes you 1100 and 700 of that is hardware, that means that a complete refret, conversion to jumbo, new nut, repairs and refinish would only cost 400? No fucking way man, no fucking way.

Later in the thread you mentioned that you had to "save up the money to get the guitar back", so he knew your money was tight and in one of his responses said something to the effect "this was finished within the constraints of the budget we discussed".


And the "unboxing video" was fake AF. Don't take up acting. Your kid even gave it away when he said "did you get a new one?" Meaning the child already knew you were unhappy with a guitar you received and asked if you got a new one. Thats not a question a child asks unless another guitar had come into the home recently.

If that was a real unboxing you would have showed some positive emotion and it would have taken you much longer to find the issues. What happened in the video, you didn't try to feign any excitement, and then zeroed in on the imperfections with laser accuracy, like you were reading them from a bulleted list. You didn't even strum the damn thing. Staged.


You keep asking "is this worth 1900!?!". The restoration, repairs and refret only cost about 1000. You had visions of sugar plum fairies for your 1900, but this was a 1000 budget restoration that you ended up being unhappy with. He said he didn't re radius the fret board and the marks were there from before, AND that he has the pics to prove it. I haven't seen any close up pics of the fretboard from you, no before and afters, so I assume that doesn't fit your narrative.


I will say one thing. Absolutely no luthier will want to do work for you in the future. While you burned down the luthiers business, you also showed a completely irrational and unprofessional response in this thread. This thread is an attempt at extortion. The amount of money you want refunded would basically be asking him to do the work for free.

You sent him a guitar with alot of problems, he was working under a budget that you had set with him. He did a good job refinishing the top, he didnt fill the back because its a budget restoration. You were initially happy with the fretwork (above). He says he wasn't able to re radius because of the MOP and that he has pics of the condition of the guitar from before. You wanted him to completely clean up the damage you had done to the fretboard, but he was unable to do it because he needed to preserve the MOP.

You haven't showed any pics of the fingerboard prior (to show that the damage wasnt already there). And you didn't follow repeated suggestions to contact another luthier to get confirmation on how much a restoration of the caliber you desire would cost. My guess is that it would be much more than 1000 in labor. Probably a reason you selected this luthier in the first place because he was willing to do a budget repair/refinish. I'm sure you called around other luthiers before sending it to him because you are so anal and particular. You know how much the other guys asked so you sent it to him instead.

I got sucked into this thread and your victim act and now im 99.999% sure its an attempt at extortion.

You doth protest wayyyyy too much, and I hope you are on a proxy because if there is litigation and your IP’s match up; it’s gonna look real bad.

 

[japetus]

void pig = NTL

Him or his boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

[Mr. Willy]

How can I extort someone if I’ve already paid them in full? I’ve been done wrong. I choose my battles carefully. I’m all in on this one because I know I’m right.

I paid $1900 in 4 PayPal transactions that total to $1900. I can screen shot that if need be, or if I’m called more names.

All I want from NTL Guitar at this point is half that amount back. I think that is fair. I’d be happy with $800 because if I can add correctly, that’d still pay him $1100 which was at the high end of his guesstimate.

 

[Mr. Willy]

I’ve removed this comment. I also removed the video with my children in it. Should’ve known better than to put that up anyway.

 

[paulyc]

I'm going back to the side of the luthier on this. What I'm seeing here is starting to look like extortion. I went back over this thread and found the inconsistencies that were bothering me. And read between the lines.

When did I ever say it sounded good? I haven’t even plugged it in yet. Haven’t had the stomach to.

Here’s what she looks like now. The frets feel good, and she plays good. Set up is good. And she looks good, if you don’t look too close. .

In another of your posts, you mentioned that you had received the guitar a couple weeks prior to starting the thread. So you had the guitar for a while, and said it plays good. You would be able to hear if it sounds the same even without plugging it in, so there was confirmation that his work did not adversely affect the tone.

When I talked to him a few days later, he requested $700 for hardware and to get the ball rolling. I thought that would be off the top of the guestimate above. I was wrong.

Apparently this was a very budget conscious build. He quoted you 1100 and then asked 700 for hardware, so the build came out on budget.

Think about it, if he quotes you 1100 and 700 of that is hardware, that means that a complete refret, conversion to jumbo, new nut, repairs and refinish would only cost 400? No fucking way man, no fucking way.

Later in the thread you mentioned that you had to "save up the money to get the guitar back", so he knew your money was tight and in one of his responses said something to the effect "this was finished within the constraints of the budget we discussed".


And the "unboxing video" was fake AF. Don't take up acting. Your kid even gave it away when he said "did you get a new one?" Meaning the child already knew you were unhappy with a guitar you received and asked if you got a new one. Thats not a question a child asks unless another guitar had come into the home recently.

If that was a real unboxing you would have showed some positive emotion and it would have taken you much longer to find the issues. What happened in the video, you didn't try to feign any excitement, and then zeroed in on the imperfections with laser accuracy, like you were reading them from a bulleted list. You didn't even strum the damn thing. Staged.


You keep asking "is this worth 1900!?!". The restoration, repairs and refret only cost about 1000. You had visions of sugar plum fairies for your 1900, but this was a 1000 budget restoration that you ended up being unhappy with. He said he didn't re radius the fret board and the marks were there from before, AND that he has the pics to prove it. I haven't seen any close up pics of the fretboard from you, no before and afters, so I assume that doesn't fit your narrative.


I will say one thing. Absolutely no luthier will want to do work for you in the future. While you burned down the luthiers business, you also showed a completely irrational and unprofessional response in this thread. This thread is an attempt at extortion. The amount of money you want refunded would basically be asking him to do the work for free.

You sent him a guitar with alot of problems, he was working under a budget that you had set with him. He did a good job refinishing the top, he didnt fill the back because its a budget restoration. You were initially happy with the fretwork (above). He says he wasn't able to re radius because of the MOP and that he has pics of the condition of the guitar from before. You wanted him to completely clean up the damage you had done to the fretboard, but he was unable to do it because he needed to preserve the MOP.

You haven't showed any pics of the fingerboard prior (to show that the damage wasnt already there). And you didn't follow repeated suggestions to contact another luthier to get confirmation on how much a restoration of the caliber you desire would cost. My guess is that it would be much more than 1000 in labor. Probably a reason you selected this luthier in the first place because he was willing to do a budget repair/refinish. I'm sure you called around other luthiers before sending it to him because you are so anal and particular. You know how much the other guys asked so you sent it to him instead.

I got sucked into this thread and your victim act and now im 99.999% sure its an attempt at extortion.

What an asshole.

 

[Racerxrated]

I'm going back to the side of the luthier on this. What I'm seeing here is starting to look like extortion. I went back over this thread and found the inconsistencies that were bothering me. And read between the lines.

When did I ever say it sounded good? I haven’t even plugged it in yet. Haven’t had the stomach to.

Here’s what she looks like now. The frets feel good, and she plays good. Set up is good. And she looks good, if you don’t look too close. .

In another of your posts, you mentioned that you had received the guitar a couple weeks prior to starting the thread. So you had the guitar for a while, and said it plays good. You would be able to hear if it sounds the same even without plugging it in, so there was confirmation that his work did not adversely affect the tone.

When I talked to him a few days later, he requested $700 for hardware and to get the ball rolling. I thought that would be off the top of the guestimate above. I was wrong.

Apparently this was a very budget conscious build. He quoted you 1100 and then asked 700 for hardware, so the build came out on budget.

Think about it, if he quotes you 1100 and 700 of that is hardware, that means that a complete refret, conversion to jumbo, new nut, repairs and refinish would only cost 400? No fucking way man, no fucking way.

Later in the thread you mentioned that you had to "save up the money to get the guitar back", so he knew your money was tight and in one of his responses said something to the effect "this was finished within the constraints of the budget we discussed".


And the "unboxing video" was fake AF. Don't take up acting. Your kid even gave it away when he said "did you get a new one?" Meaning the child already knew you were unhappy with a guitar you received and asked if you got a new one. Thats not a question a child asks unless another guitar had come into the home recently.

If that was a real unboxing you would have showed some positive emotion and it would have taken you much longer to find the issues. What happened in the video, you didn't try to feign any excitement, and then zeroed in on the imperfections with laser accuracy, like you were reading them from a bulleted list. You didn't even strum the damn thing. Staged.


You keep asking "is this worth 1900!?!". The restoration, repairs and refret only cost about 1000. You had visions of sugar plum fairies for your 1900, but this was a 1000 budget restoration that you ended up being unhappy with. He said he didn't re radius the fret board and the marks were there from before, AND that he has the pics to prove it. I haven't seen any close up pics of the fretboard from you, no before and afters, so I assume that doesn't fit your narrative.


I will say one thing. Absolutely no luthier will want to do work for you in the future. While you burned down the luthiers business, you also showed a completely irrational and unprofessional response in this thread. This thread is an attempt at extortion. The amount of money you want refunded would basically be asking him to do the work for free.

You sent him a guitar with alot of problems, he was working under a budget that you had set with him. He did a good job refinishing the top, he didnt fill the back because its a budget restoration. You were initially happy with the fretwork (above). He says he wasn't able to re radius because of the MOP and that he has pics of the condition of the guitar from before. You wanted him to completely clean up the damage you had done to the fretboard, but he was unable to do it because he needed to preserve the MOP.

You haven't showed any pics of the fingerboard prior (to show that the damage wasnt already there). And you didn't follow repeated suggestions to contact another luthier to get confirmation on how much a restoration of the caliber you desire would cost. My guess is that it would be much more than 1000 in labor. Probably a reason you selected this luthier in the first place because he was willing to do a budget repair/refinish. I'm sure you called around other luthiers before sending it to him because you are so anal and particular. You know how much the other guys asked so you sent it to him instead.

I got sucked into this thread and your victim act and now im 99.999% sure its an attempt at extortion.

What an asshole.

Not only an asshole, but apparently a moron as well. Reading comprehension is not his strong suit.

 

[LP Freak]

It’s about time the pitchforks came out. I’m surprised it took this long

 

[journeyman73]

It’s about time the pitchforks came out. I’m surprised it took this long

Exactly

 

[UltraGary]

void pig = NTL

Him or his boyfriend/girlfriend.

Even if the IP address' don't match, it's still obvious. (computer at home, computer at the office, isn't very hard) Who on earth invests this much time & energy fighting the obviously WRONG point of view? This dude just looks worse and worse as we see more of him. (and VERY UNcool response to that unboxing video too)

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I'm going back to the side of the luthier on this.

void pig Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020

 

[JimAnsell]

weird point that guy made... you can't assume anything based off the kid saying what he said. "did you get a new one?" doesn't mean shit, really. the kid is just asking, cause kids are curious.

 

[Mr. Willy]

My son is 4. My daughter is 7. To them, watching me open that package was like watching me open a present on Christmas. To them, it WAS a new guitar. They’ve never seen that guitar painted black. They have no idea of any of this bull crap.

I had my wife film me open the guitar in case it was damaged. I wanted a record of it. I can provide a time stamp of that video if need be. I received my guitar on Tuesday afternoon, 6/16. I’ve not even had it back a week yet at this point.

I was already skeptical of this job before the guitar arrived because of the bill he charged me. I’ve already well-documented in this thread the guesstimate he gave me ($900-$1100) versus the final bill ($1900 - total for me b/c I paid ALL fees, and for paper towels, sand paper, etc.) We went round and round (cordially) about the discrepancy via text and phone. At that point, I’d only seen photographs of my guitar. The guitar looked good in the photos. I told him, though, for what he ended up charging me that when the guitar arrived, I’d go over it with a fine toothed comb. Which is what I did.

Before I forget, you can insinuate whatever you want about me. You can call me whatever names you want. That’s fine. I’m a grown man, and I sure ain’t no snowflake. But when you bring my children into the mix and insinuate things about them that aren’t true...I try very hard to be a peaceful man, but that kind of thing makes me loose my cool, big time. My children are totally innocent in ALL OF THIS.

 

[Mr. Willy]

This is one of the text messages I sent him after he sent me the bill. This was BEFORE my guitar came back to me. Yeah, I was pretty upset. I expected a bill, at the most, around $1300. (High side of his guesstimate was $1100. I expected wiggle room. I was prepared for that, NOT FOR NINETEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS! Can I be any more clear than this?! I’ll add that just getting him on the phone, I practically had to sort of apologize for getting upset before he’d even answer me. I’m telling you, this guy’s communication was severely lacking. When it was clear that I wasn’t happy, communication became EVEN HARDER.

One of the texts I sent him:
I asked you how much the work would cost IN TOTAL. That included EVERYTHING. Parts is included IN THE WORK. That was included in the “laundry list.” That is perhaps where we are misunderstanding each other. You SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

If I’m wrong about you intentionally trying to swindle me, then I sincerely apologize. Perhaps this is merely a case of miscommunication, which is what I believe this is. You believe you aren’t that kind of person, then I take you at your word. I believe I’m an honest person as well. But if I feel I’m being taken advantage of, then I will certainly speak up about it.

If I can admit that perhaps I misunderstood you, then maybe you can admit that you were not CLEAR about the charges.

I do appreciate the work. It appears to look fantastic. I will be giving it a thorough look over once it gets to me. I do hope I do not find even the slightest imperfection for what this is going to cost me.

Perhaps we can talk over the phone at some point rather than this back and forth over text message.

 

[skullfxr]

Void Pig's account came into existence at a convenient time.

Interesting critique.

And a bold jackass-ish assumption without motive. Huh.

I smell fish.

 

[skullfxr]

I just wish the luthier would do him right.

Other than that it's probably going to be brought to small claims court in reality. I don't think it would be easy for a CC company to reverse any charge. PayPal it would still be iffy. I sincerely hope it goes down right. But it's going to be very hard to proove it to the CC company that so much is wrong with it. They are a bank ultimately. Banks look at contractual aspects and at best they would look at substantial completion. It's going to be an uphill battle I think. Just TBH.

 

[void pig]

Void Pig - don’t EVER, EVER mention my children on here again. Not in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. You son of a bitch.

Lol. Give me a break. You've got a raging case of little man syndrome. If you make a video of your child, post it on the web, I can comment on what the child said. Nothing disrespectful was said about the child.

What are you going to do, fly that little 5'6" frame over here and kick my ass? Your potbelly says you'd be winded before you got to my doorstep.

I've got some friends who do DOD work in Hunstville, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too hard to find out who you are. I think you should be more concerned about your NG coworkers finding out about your antics and behavior in this thread.

We get that you are upset, but you are pulling some unprofessional and shady tactics here. The "unboxing" video is fake af. If it was real, that would have been the first thing you posted in this thread.

Also, it was not a 1900 job. It was about 1100 in work with the rest being all new hardware and shipping expense. You keep saying it was this "expensive" job, but it really wasnt.

It was a budget restoration. You sent him a colosally trashed instrument and were expecting the moon for your 1K. (even just refretting with jumbos and cutting a new nut would cost half your budget.) I get that you are upset over the fretboard, but you never provided any before pics. He says he has plenty.

From his correspondence, it was clear he was working to your budget. You didn't give him carte blanche to do everything, in fact you had to "save up money" to get your guitar back.

If you work in engineering, you know that requirement specification is very important. As far as we can see, there was nothing in writing about specific items he was to address. It looks like the two of you had a phone conversation.

If you had handled this professionally and intelligently, you would have leverage to get a CC charge back or small claims, but you have none so you are trying to extort him by trashing his business. The amount you want returned would basically mean he did the work for free.

I entered this thread trying to help you find some satisfaction. But you just keep heaping it on. I am in no way affiliated with the luthier.

 

[Goat]

...I am in no way affiliated with the luthier.

 

[void pig]

Void Pig's account came into existence at a convenient time.

Interesting critique.

And a bold jackass-ish assumption without motive. Huh.

I smell fish.

Im standing up for a guy whose livlihood is being put in jeopardy. This is any small business owner's worst nightmare. An unreasonable customer who is seeing red and will do anything to get his way, including fabricating an "unboxing" video.

I was on the OPs side for a little bit, but then I went back and reread the thread, read the luthiers response, (which was professional), and saw inconsistencies in the OPs account.