So is there really any point to having a 4x12 anymore?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dirtyfunkg
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I used a pair of Mesa EV12 loaded 112s for years. After demoing some Randall amps I decided that I needed a 412 cab in my life again. Now I have four :D The 412s have more depth and resonance that my othrr cabs don't have (although I'm thinking that the G Flex 212 might be pretty righteous with a couple of EV12Ls, my speaker of choice :rock: )

Martin
 
I've got a 412 and a 212 Mesa recto cabs. I just like my 412 it just sounds big to me. But I have notice that my 412 sounds better than my 212 with a 100watt or more tube amp and both sound great with a 50 watt amp.
 
4x12 are much bigger cabinets and thus will have a much different frequency response than a 2x12. Generally speaking, it will provide more low end. It's not simply a matter of greater db output, which is of course the case with 4 drivers versus 2, even with the same wattage amp. For this reason a 4x12 can even be the better choice for recording, even when high volume is not required.

That said, I've seen some mention of wattage which seems to hold the same fallacy about volume output being the only effect. I can switch my Marshall 6100 from 100 watts, to 50 watts, and even to 25 watts. The change from 100 to 50 simply removes two of the power tubes. I can also select pentode or triode mode. All 4 modes sound and feel very distinct, regardless of volume output.
 
It depends on the gig and style but I just got a 2nd 4x12 and gigged with it this weekend. 1st time out with a 4x12 in many years and it sounded glorious. I was a decent sized venue with full PA, everything was mic'ed. This was for 2 sets with 2 different bands doing bluesrock with one and rock/heavy rock covers with the other. Last week, I gigged the same setup using just a Bogner 1x12. That was a smaller venue and we were being mic'ed as well, this was doing pop/rock stuff. You need some options.

One thing about the volume comments, a 2x12 with V30s is (usually) louder than a 4x12 with GBs. The V30s have a higher sensitivity. My Elmwood 2x12 with V30s sounds louder than either one of my 4x12s (GBs and G12-65s).
 
Do you guys use anything special for recording, like your gigging cab or 4x12 vs whatever?
 
I fear I won't be taken seriously unless I have a 4x12 on stage.
 
They're impractical, but for hard rock/metal, nothing sounds as good.

Earlier this year I played my first arena gig. I had my 100w Engl Powerball II turned up to 7 going through a 4x12 loaded with Marshall-labelled V30s. It sounded unbelievably good. The stage was huge, and the outdoor arena dispersed the sound so I wasn't killing the front rows of the audience. I was in tonal nirvana, bros. I've heard that amp sound great before, but at that volume, pushing all that air with 4 speakers in one enclosure, it was phenomenal. Plus, I could hear myself anywhere on that big stage, which was an added bonus.
 
I use a 4x12, sometimes two of them.

I use my VHT Delvierance cab usually because it sounds huge, and you can feel it ripping through your chest.

Id just tell your other guitarist to buy a better amp and keep the Mills.
 
RIFF":g66j6g15 said:
Do you guys use anything special for recording, like your gigging cab or 4x12 vs whatever?
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EX3xB.jpg
 
I can't fit a 4x12 in my car, so it's 2x12 for now. I also have a 1X12, but I like the bass in the 2X12 better. Assuming similar quality cab and speakers, I'd think I would like a 4X12 even more due to more bass. I play bass guitar as often as guitar so the more bass the better from my perspective.
 
sah5150":txrptpuq said:
Yes. In fact I require three 4x12 cabs at all times to adequately provide coverage in my spare bedroom...

Steve
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:lol: :LOL: :thumbsup:
 
I guess we have a fundamental difference of opinion here. I play bass in bands also... so as a guitarist I try to make sure I don't trample on the bassist's freq range. As great as ...AJFA is, I hate that the bass is totally inaudible due to the guitars being so low end heavy. I happen to have a good bassist in my main band also--I want him to show through. I actually run an EQ in my line to totally cut 100Hz and below out of my signal. Sounds worse when playing alone, but in a band context it sits perfectly.

And my other guitarist has a Mesa Maverick that he loves (and sounds GREAT miced up and pulls off heavy sounds once miced up, in spite of its reputation). He's a soundman by trade and does sound at a couple of prominent Chicago clubs.

I guess I get if if you're playing a gig with no monitors and amps not being miced up. It still doesn't make sense to me when you do have those amenities. A 4x12 is not going to make a difference to your live tone--it's not like you have a room mic there to assist as pictured above. I get it in recording though only slightly, again. In fact, for live, I'd think you'd want less of that stage volume there not just due to mic bleed and less control over sound, but also for other phasing issues.

Granted, it's an extreme example, but Dinosaur Jr played at the club my other guitarist mixes at. J Mascis has 300W of cranked Marshall stacks on stage behind him, then a cranked Twin elevated and facing him from about 2:00 based on him facing noon. His vocals? Completely inaudible. His guitar tone? Shitty due to the phasing issues of the principle sound vs his vocal mic vs his guitar amp mics. Again, an extreme example, but illustrates a point.

I also kind of get if you're playing on a huge stage or outdoors. But I'm going to guess that many of us aren't playing 1000+top venues on a regular basis with a 40+x20+ stage. I generally play 300-600 top venues with decent to top notch PA's.

Again, we don't really play unmiced gigs anymore though.
 
Oh I get it. I suck and am too loud because I'm not as smart as you because I still prefer my 4x12 over my 2x12.

:)
 
dirtyfunkg":2apu1kz2 said:
I guess we have a fundamental difference of opinion here. I play bass in bands also... so as a guitarist I try to make sure I don't trample on the bassist's freq range. As great as ...AJFA is, I hate that the bass is totally inaudible due to the guitars being so low end heavy. I happen to have a good bassist in my main band also--I want him to show through. I actually run an EQ in my line to totally cut 100Hz and below out of my signal. Sounds worse when playing alone, but in a band context it sits perfectly.

And my other guitarist has a Mesa Maverick that he loves (and sounds GREAT miced up and pulls off heavy sounds once miced up, in spite of its reputation). He's a soundman by trade and does sound at a couple of prominent Chicago clubs.

I guess I get if if you're playing a gig with no monitors and amps not being miced up. It still doesn't make sense to me when you do have those amenities. A 4x12 is not going to make a difference to your live tone--it's not like you have a room mic there to assist as pictured above. I get it in recording though only slightly, again. In fact, for live, I'd think you'd want less of that stage volume there not just due to mic bleed and less control over sound, but also for other phasing issues.

Granted, it's an extreme example, but Dinosaur Jr played at the club my other guitarist mixes at. J Mascis has 300W of cranked Marshall stacks on stage behind him, then a cranked Twin elevated and facing him from about 2:00 based on him facing noon. His vocals? Completely inaudible. His guitar tone? Shitty due to the phasing issues of the principle sound vs his vocal mic vs his guitar amp mics. Again, an extreme example, but illustrates a point.

I also kind of get if you're playing on a huge stage or outdoors. But I'm going to guess that many of us aren't playing 1000+top venues on a regular basis with a 40+x20+ stage. I generally play 300-600 top venues with decent to top notch PA's.

Again, we don't really play unmiced gigs anymore though.
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As to your invasion of sonic territories: Theres very few guys that understand this, but those that do, have superior sound quality.. & it applies to both Guitar AND bass, though guitar stepping over is more common. Ive heard guys playing with a 4x12 & the right setup that arent too loud & boomy. One of the worst causes of mush are just every guy in the band turning up a little louder, generally because they cant hear themselves because theyre STANDING 2' in front of their cab which is SITTING on the floor... :lol: :LOL:
 
TeleBlaster":3q9jrvrv said:
Oh I get it. I suck and am too loud because I'm not as smart as you because I still prefer my 4x12 over my 2x12.

:)
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:lol: :LOL:
 
I had an interesting experiment this weekend, played a small venue for the second time and thought, surely dont need the Mesa 4x12 (I did use it last gig there) I'll just take my 2-1x12 Mesa recto cubes (closed back) and stack them, head on top. I was in the same position in relation to the room and amp and I thought the 2 1x12s when stacked are higher than my 4x12 it would cut as good or better....WRONG! Not even close, same speakers in all 3 cabs but the angled 4x12 even at lower volume and close to it was far easier to hear and cut was better so I could play with a lower stage volume, sometimes the angle part makes a huge difference. I have tilt backs on the cubes so perhaps I'll try one of them like that next time. I also have a Bogner 2x12 but I'm concerned as the spaekers are even closer to the floor. In almost ALL cases the 4x12 is better at least for me. It doesnt decide the volume I play at, just sounds the best by far for a lot of reasons covered earlier in this thread and when I hear myslef better i don't play as loud.
 
There is always a reason to fire up a 4X12 :rock:

I much prefer 4X12's, after trying both 2X12's and 1X12's at gigs. Still have them, just can't seem to be satisfied with the smaller cabs.

To each his own, but I love having a 4x12 or two in my back line. Agreeing with what others have said that even at lower volumes I prefer 4X12's.

:rawk:
 
Wait. Has perceived penis size been mentioned as a reason to have and use 4x12s yet??

Just wondering. Cuz, well, this is a valid reason.

Mo :D
 
First of all, rock n' roll doesn't have a fucking point. It's about doing whatever the hell it is you want to do. I happen to like the sound my 4x12" makes, so that's what I play out of. The argument that a 4x12" puts out too much bass and steps all over the bassist is hilarious. People have been using 4x12" cabs at miked gigs for decades and have been able to manage the mix just fine. If a proper half stack is too heavy for you to lug around, maybe you should start playing in a smooth jazz band. God damn, when did guitar get so pussified?
 
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