So Much for "Combat-Tested"

[BSRIAudio]

When Lava started up in the early/mid 2000s Mark was just assembling cables with a few dozen brands of cable from entry level to top tier. All the guitar cables were pretty pedestrian but he was offering massive speaker cables meant for multi-channel PA and HiFi installations and terminating them with simple TS plugs. It looked cool af to have a speaker cable the size of a garden hose (I have a few from back then) but looks are basically all they're really offering you. I think I have a Sommer Quadra Blue that's about 3/4" in diameter and probably has 4-8 individually shielded speaker lines running inside. Not sure how many are actually terminated but it makes the assembly in the OP look pedestrian.

 

[Devin]

At least the Lava Retrocoil instrument cables are good

 

[311boogieman]

All these companies are just BS'ing their customers. Here's a blurb from Evidence Audio about their $85 speaker cable:

"The Siren Speaker Cable applies the design priorities of Evidence Audio to a cable which can handle the demands of an amplified signal without adding distortion through strand interaction. While line-level cables can avoid the smearing we attribute to skin effect by using a 20-awg conductor, a single 20-awg conductor does not offer enough cross-sectional area to keep an amplified signal from using the conductor as a filament. Three audio optimized conductors are joined together for positive, and three for negative in order to lower resistance and provide ample dampening between an amplifier and drivers."

"While line-level cables can avoid the smearing we attribute to skin effect"

What the what?

Sounds like something Vertex would say.

 

[jet66]

I am familiar with the concept of skin effect in data/high frequency transmission over CATV/telecom applications (where it is a good thing) but not so much in audio applications. So I looked at a few articles and reasonable discussions. (And it is often a hotly debated topic, I learned...) Based off of the seemingly more knowledgeable pieces, skin effect is pretty negligible in most audio applications, and that is in 'full range' audiophile applications. With the frequency range of most guitars being well under the 20 kHz mark, it would seem even less of a 'thing.'

Two samples:

https://www.belden.com/blog/broadcast/understanding-skin-effect-and-frequency

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cle-does-audio-cable-skin-effect-matter.7157/

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah, there are more important things to worry about than skin effect in a speaker cable from guitar amp to cab.

I bought about 30 feet of 14 AWG dual-conductor Van Damme cable for $25 the other day and will just make my own cable for the cost of even a cheap quality speaker cable and have 28 feet left over in case something happens in the future. Could have gone cheaper but I wanted to try this stuff out. I looked at Mogami as well, but their stuff is coax and not sure how I feel about that for speaker cable. Then there's Gotham and Lake and Canare, etc.

 

[apophis]

I dont know but my evidence audio cables sure sound different from other brands. Highly noticeable in the mids and bass. Much tighter. I initially bought 1 cable to try but i liked the sound and got a few more

 

[scottosan]

I dont know but my evidence audio cables sure sound different from other brands. Highly noticeable in the mids and bass. Much tighter. I initially bought 1 cable to try but i liked the sound and got a few more

There is always psycho-acoustics involved. Almost impossible to A/B since you are comparing to a short term memory of the cable you are comparing to. I once participated in a true blind test of some audiphole equipment, in which 3 speaker "cables" were used. Out of 10 of us, the majority though the best sound set was what was later revealed as metal clothes hangers with banana connectors on the end.

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah, I'm a member on a couple audiophile forums as well (DACs, headphone amps, etc.). And the BS these people believe is uncanny. I can't believe the average audiophile drops $800+ on headphone cables and they swear up and down they all sound night/day different. Like, oh I just bought this $950 silver double dragon viper cable with triple Litz braided silk cover and it really made the mids punchy and thick and smoothed out the highs while boosting the bass and making it really tight. I don't comment on that stuff. And after doing some digging you can find out what wire these companies use and it usually turns out to be the same Canare, Mogami, or Kimber wire you can get for $0.60/foot. Companies put some Techflex over it and braid it up to look fancy and charge $800 for it. I should get into the cable business...

Anyway, I don't believe for one second that any two- or three-foot speaker cable from guitar amp to cab will sound different from any other. And if it does, then I'd love to see the measurements on those cables. Signal generator, scope, resistance, capacitance, and inductance measurements. Show me on a frequency response graph that two cables make a guitar amp sound audibly different. Resistance matters and will affect speaker damping. But in a short cable of reasonable gauge, you aren't going to hear a difference. Now if one of those cables is like 8 inches thick and the other is 1mm thick, sure... there's a measurable difference. But is it even audible at those extremes? I'm skeptical.

But hey, if someone hears a difference, let 'em be happy.

 

[FourT6and2]

I dont know but my evidence audio cables sure sound different from other brands. Highly noticeable in the mids and bass. Much tighter. I initially bought 1 cable to try but i liked the sound and got a few more

Just keep in mind the wire inside your amp is 18 awg to 22 awg plain old copper hookup wire. The wire inside your speaker cab is also probably the same. And if it isn't, the wire from the solder tab on each speaker that runs to the coil is thin 18-20 awg wire. I haven't been able to hear a difference between wire used in any part of the guitar amp system EXCEPT instrument cable or instrument cable in the FX loop. And in both of the cases the difference comes down to capacitance per foot (high-end loss) and shielding. Some cables are microphonic and cause noise when you touch them or move them. Speaker cables? I can't hear a difference. Unless we're talking about long runs across a stage or something.

 

[Fiesta Red]

Yeah, there are more important things to worry about than skin effect in a speaker cable from guitar amp to cab.

I bought about 30 feet of 14 AWG dual-conductor Van Damme cable for $25 the other day and will just make my own cable for the cost of even a cheap quality speaker cable and have 28 feet left over in case something happens in the future. Could have gone cheaper but I wanted to try this stuff out. I looked at Mogami as well, but their stuff is coax and not sure how I feel about that for speaker cable. Then there's Gotham and Lake and Canare, etc.

I see Van Damme cable on ebay a lot. Is it any better than Mogami or .... ?

 

[scottosan]

Skin factor is less in guitar frequencies than Hi-Fi. Just stick with higher number of smaller strands and properly flux when soldering to insure a good electrical connection to most of those stands and you should be good.

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah, there are more important things to worry about than skin effect in a speaker cable from guitar amp to cab.

I bought about 30 feet of 14 AWG dual-conductor Van Damme cable for $25 the other day and will just make my own cable for the cost of even a cheap quality speaker cable and have 28 feet left over in case something happens in the future. Could have gone cheaper but I wanted to try this stuff out. I looked at Mogami as well, but their stuff is coax and not sure how I feel about that for speaker cable. Then there's Gotham and Lake and Canare, etc.

I see Van Damme cable on ebay a lot. Is it any better than Mogami or .... ?

Lots of options out there. I wouldn't say any one is better than another. I wanted something with a durable outer jacket, two conductors (not 4, 6, 8, etc.), and from a company that is transparent and not full of themselves with regard to audiofoolery. Mogami has a good rep and I use their instrument cables. But their speaker cable is coaxial and I didn't want that. Came across a listing on Amazon for Van Damme at a better price than buying direct, so I grabbed it.

 

[jsp]

Yeah, I'm a member on a couple audiophile forums as well (DACs, headphone amps, etc.). And the BS these people believe is uncanny. I can't believe the average audiophile drops $800+ on headphone cables and they swear up and down they all sound night/day different. Like, oh I just bought this $950 silver double dragon viper cable with triple Litz braided silk cover and it really made the mids punchy and thick and smoothed out the highs while boosting the bass and making it really tight. I don't comment on that stuff. And after doing some digging you can find out what wire these companies use and it usually turns out to be the same Canare, Mogami, or Kimber wire you can get for $0.60/foot. Companies put some Techflex over it and braid it up to look fancy and charge $800 for it. I should get into the cable business...

Anyway, I don't believe for one second that any two- or three-foot speaker cable from guitar amp to cab will sound different from any other. And if it does, then I'd love to see the measurements on those cables. Signal generator, scope, resistance, capacitance, and inductance measurements. Show me on a frequency response graph that two cables make a guitar amp sound audibly different. Resistance matters and will affect speaker damping. But in a short cable of reasonable gauge, you aren't going to hear a difference. Now if one of those cables is like 8 inches thick and the other is 1mm thick, sure... there's a measurable difference. But is it even audible at those extremes? I'm skeptical.

But hey, if someone hears a difference, let 'em be happy.

Amazing

 

[scottosan]

Yeah, I'm a member on a couple audiophile forums as well (DACs, headphone amps, etc.). And the BS these people believe is uncanny. I can't believe the average audiophile drops $800+ on headphone cables and they swear up and down they all sound night/day different. Like, oh I just bought this $950 silver double dragon viper cable with triple Litz braided silk cover and it really made the mids punchy and thick and smoothed out the highs while boosting the bass and making it really tight. I don't comment on that stuff. And after doing some digging you can find out what wire these companies use and it usually turns out to be the same Canare, Mogami, or Kimber wire you can get for $0.60/foot. Companies put some Techflex over it and braid it up to look fancy and charge $800 for it. I should get into the cable business...

Anyway, I don't believe for one second that any two- or three-foot speaker cable from guitar amp to cab will sound different from any other. And if it does, then I'd love to see the measurements on those cables. Signal generator, scope, resistance, capacitance, and inductance measurements. Show me on a frequency response graph that two cables make a guitar amp sound audibly different. Resistance matters and will affect speaker damping. But in a short cable of reasonable gauge, you aren't going to hear a difference. Now if one of those cables is like 8 inches thick and the other is 1mm thick, sure... there's a measurable difference. But is it even audible at those extremes? I'm skeptical.

But hey, if someone hears a difference, let 'em be happy.

My favorite is when the talk about how better USB audio cables are. I mean, it's 1s and 0s and they get there or they don't. They can either be converted to audio or be corrupt or dropped, but neither translate to an audio signal. People talk about how a high end digital cable has a better tonality or frequency response is ludicrous

 

[FourT6and2]

My favorite is when the talk about how better USB audio cables are. I mean, it's 1s and 0s and they get there or they don't. They can either be converted to audio or be corrupt or dropped, but neither translate to an audio signal. People talk about how a high end digital cable has a better tonality or frequency response is ludicrous

Can I get a hallelujah!

I paid my local audiophile shop a visit recently to demo some headphones and amps. We're talking about $4,000 headphones here. Ridiculous. Granted, they sounded fantastic. But while checking them out, the store guy begged me to compare my own USB cable to their in-house audiophile-grade USB cable that is about $700. For a US cable... I went back and forth and couldn't hear a difference.

0s and 1s. Your DAC either sees a 0 or it sees a 1 or it doesn't. And it will translate a distorted, noisy 0 into the same analog signal as a perfectly clean 0, I suppose? People talk about jitter. But I think that's more to do with the DAC. There's a forum out there called Audio Science Review where they deal strictly with the measurement of audiophile equipment. And you can see jitter and noise and distortion via test equipment. But the majority of it is below the threshold of human hearing. They did compare some USB cables at one point and did find a difference in measurement but nothing audible. Certainly nothing worth $700... I'll stick with my Monoprice USB cable for $2.50

 

[John4021]

I've had many regular instrument and mic cables go out on me from cold solder joints, but never a load bearing speaker cable. If you can solder well enough, you might want to invest in some cable and just make them yourself to ensure the joints are good and actual heat shrink is used. The last time I ordered cable for myself was in 2016, I made guitar cables, mic cables, cables for my monitors, and patch cables for pedalboards. They've never failed me since. I ordered from Redco.com, for a 10ft 12AWG Mogami speaker Cable and 2 Neutrik plugs it's $35.

he can solder better than anyone I have ever seen!

I've heard only good things about Redco as well as Kevin at Geistnote.

Redco is a solid supplier. Good prices on bulk cable, etc. I've never purchased a pre-made cable from them though, but seems like a good option.

Redco is a great way to go to make your own cables.
10 amps /Two switching systems/pedalboard drawer /speaker cables.
All custom length's. Quiet Dependable ,and a cheap way over store bought cables.
They should be sending me a Christmas card every year...

 

[skullfxr]

I pay the premium (get ready to slam me...) for Monster speaker cables (when I snag them used cheap). They have the resin over the end and it seems safer for me. Never had a problem.

 

[skullfxr]

With instrument cable, I use BTPA and Switchraft jacks. Cheap and great for me. I probably have 200' of cable that I have made with their stuff and Switchraft jack's.

I trust my own soldering over some random dude in a third world country.

 

[John4021]

At least the Lava Retrocoil instrument cables are good

I bought a new style 25 ft PRS cable with silent end.
I swear theres something missing tone wise that the Lava coli cable has (at least to my ears)

 

[FourT6and2]

At least the Lava Retrocoil instrument cables are good

I bought a new style 25 ft PRS cable with silent end.
I swear theres something missing tone wise that the Lava coli cable has (at least to my ears)

Just compare the data sheets on the two cables to see what the difference is.