So, this is neat & frustrating (Dr. Z & Swart content)

[Draelyc]

Been a while since I posted a Z thread, so HI!

As you may remember, True Believers, once I got the mad volume under control via the Swart Night Light attenuator, I rapidly fell deeply in lust/love with my Dr. Z Maz 18 Jr. NR head. That process continues unabated (although, as mentioned, a bit attenuated.... er...).

Meanwhile, I've been testing out my various fx pedals with the Z, with almost universally great results. I say "almost," because everything that ran in front of my other amps sounds wonderful in front of the Z, and everything I ran in my other amps' fx loops sounds great in the Z's loop ... *except* my DigiTech HarmonyMan. The HarmonyMan seems to get overloaded by the fx send coming out of the Z, and the only way to prevent that from happening is to dial the Z's master volume way back ~ which, of course, eviscerates the Z's lovely tone (I've been running the master c. 11 o'clock & using the Swart to control the overall output).

Well, enter the Swart's secret weapon: an extra line out for running the signal from one amp to the input of a second amp. In a fit of experimental madness, I tried running the Swart's line out into the input of the HarmonyMan, and the HarmonyMan's output to the clean channel of my Studiotone head (which then ran into a separate cab from the one the Z goes into). Whaddaya know? It worked *beautifully*! Great Z drive & crunch, and crystaline, pristine clarity on the harmonies, PLUS the harmonies were singing forth from a whole separate cab like a wet/dry rig ~ very wide, very stereo, and very cool!

That's the neat part.

The frustrating part is the realization that if I want to use my harmonies live, I'll have to lug two heads & two cabs around! I really don't like the idea that I can't run all my stuff through one amp & one cab, or rather, the idea that if I only want to run one amp & cab, I'll have to forego one of my favorite fx gadgets.

That's it for now, True Believers. Tune in next time, when Our Hero will plug more things into other more things and risk triggering Global Thermonuclear War...

Chris

 

[Draelyc]

Bomp

 

[Badronald]

Cool. I've thought about multi rigs/stereo rigs before, but I'm stubborn. I refuse to carry around that much gear. I like to be in a venue and set up quick. And be packed up quick after the gig.

 

[Draelyc]

Cool. I've thought about multi rigs/stereo rigs before, but I'm stubborn. I refuse to carry around that much gear. I like to be in a venue and set up quick. And be packed up quick after the gig.

Well, that's the thing, y'know? I don't like the idea of having to lug two amps around... In fact, I've had a thought or two about stripping down to a really minimalist pedalboard for live use & just keeping the fancy pedals like the HarmonyMan at home...although that seems like kind of a shame, after building up that board in the first place.

 

[Draelyc]

Friday bomp

 

[~Abstract~]

could you use a volume pedal/suck knob/eq with level...before the harmony thing to lower the input level to that device?

I'm sure you've tried it...just covering bases...

 

[Draelyc]

could you use a volume pedal/suck knob/eq with level...before the harmony thing to lower the input level to that device?

I'm sure you've tried it...just covering bases...

I did think about that ... Thing is, a good bit of the tonal loveliness of the Z is, I think, coming from having the power section opened up a bit, and if I lower the signal level at some point in the fx loop, won't I lose some of the oomph & punch of the power section?

It's weird, because my delay & reverb pedals (Carbon Copy & Digitech Hardwire, respectively) don't seem to have any problem in the Z's loop...

 

[~Abstract~]

could you use a volume pedal/suck knob/eq with level...before the harmony thing to lower the input level to that device?

I'm sure you've tried it...just covering bases...

I did think about that ... Thing is, a good bit of the tonal loveliness of the Z is, I think, coming from having the power section opened up a bit, and if I lower the signal level at some point in the fx loop, won't I lose some of the oomph & punch of the power section?

It's weird, because my delay & reverb pedals (Carbon Copy & Digitech Hardwire, respectively) don't seem to have any problem in the Z's loop...

You may need to crank the master a bit more (to keep the oomph and punch of the power section) if you pull some volume out of the loop...may make for an even juicier tone...? What if you run the reverb BEFORE the Harmony thing? So the input for the Harmony is limited by the output of the reverb...then the delay last?

 

[Draelyc]

Well, I tried running my New Rising Sun II boost in the loop in front of the HarmonyMan -- with the idea of turning it down, to reduce the signal level going into the harmonizer... But dig this: with the boost set for perfect unity gain, engaging the boost kept the harmonizer from clipping!

Now, can someone please explain to me how engaging a boost at the exact same level can somehow, magically, make the harmonizer work?

What. The. Hell...

This is seriously screwing with my head, y'all......

 

[imprinted]

That is indeed very confusing!

I was just going to pipe in with the suggestion that you could *probably* make a Cab into a Stereo Cab so you wouldn't have to lug two about...

 

[Draelyc]

That is indeed very confusing!

I was just going to pipe in with the suggestion that you could *probably* make a Cab into a Stereo Cab so you wouldn't have to lug two about...

Well, that would certainly help w/ the load in/out...

I got one more thing to test, tho... When Mrs. Draelyc wakes up from her nap, I'm gonna see if putting a buffered-bypass pedal (like my Boss tuner) in front of the harmonizer makes any difference. Not too optimistic, since the New Rising Sun is not buffered, but I cannot figure out why a unity-gain "boost" would've smoothed out the harmonizer, so I figure I might as well give this a shot...

 

[Draelyc]

Well, the buffered pedal in the loop made *zero* difference.

Ergo, I rewired the pedalboard so that the loop chain now runs: fx send -> New Rising Sun boost -> HarmonyMan -> MXR 6 band eq (for solo volume) -> Carbon Copy -> fx return. Leaving the boost on at unity gain does seem to even out the harmonies when the H-man is engaged, and it also seems to recover some of the lost tone that the Z's loop seems to suck away, so that's cool...

Still, it's less than ideal. I'll give it a few days, but I may decide that the better compromise is to build two separate rigs, after all.

The Z will (apparently) sound quite a bit better without running anything in its loop, anyway ...

 

[Draelyc]

Well, I think what Ima do is just set up two totally separate rigs. The Speed Twin'll be my "modern," channel-switching, fancy-fx, bells&whistles type rig, and the Z will be my purist, vintage, old-school, booteek, tone-of-the-gods type rig.

The more I a/b it, the more it seems like the Z's fx loop sucks tone, anyway. So I'll just run a couple of booteeky pedals up front with that one (Banzai Fireball, Red Witch Moon Phaser, maybe my Choralflange...?) & not worry about delay or reverb or harmonizers. I'll save those gadgets & goodies for ye olde Speed Twin, which has a great loop that doesn't suck tone (even though the amp's raw tone is not quite in the same ballpark as the Z's, o' course).

So, there ya go. Prollem solved, sort of. Er.