So UPS damaged my AX8! What now?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lord Toneking
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Lord Toneking

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I've been fortunate to never have anything damaged when shipping or receiving...until now

I sent pics to ups and filed a claim. I also did a PayPal dispute and I guess they're holding funds

Declared value was $1400 and that's about what I paid. My question is: will ups issue the seller a refund for the declared value and then the seller refunds my money back to me? What happens to the damaged AX8? Do I ship it back to the seller? Is the seller now stuck with a damaged unit?

I feel bad for the seller because he seems to be a really cool guy. He shipped in the original box and packing when ordered from Fractal. He feels awful, as do I :aww:

So what now? :confused:
 
Not sure how it works on UPS' end. But to me, it'd make sense for either:

1. Seller gives you refund, you send damaged thing back to seller. UPS sends him the insurance money.
2. Seller does not give you a refund. You keep damaged thing. Seller keeps the money. UPS sends you the insurance money.

Either way, both you and seller are taken care of. But I don't know how UPS does it.
 
I had a similar experience with UPS recently, though as a shipper, and it wasn't terribly encouraging. Here's the somewhat-abridged version:

The seller received the amp--a Bogner Twin Jet--in damaged condition. Specifically, the head box was split completely through at one corner--clearly the result of having been dropped from a height of several feet and/or repeatedly run over by a steamroller. Since I had sold the amp through Reverb and wanted to protect my seller rating, I immediately refunded him the full purchase price and filed a claim with UPS. Someone from UPS picked up the amp (and all of the packing material) the next day and returned it to their facility to verify that 1. it had, in fact, been damaged and 2. it had been packed in a manner that conformed to the company's (preposterously strict) packaging standards.

Fortunately, I'd followed my usual practice of having the amp "professionally" packed by the folks at my local UPS Store. Why? In my experience, this the only way to virtually guarantee that UPS will honor any damage claim for the full insured amount. Otherwise, they will almost invariably refuse to honor the insurance, citing "insufficient packing." It doesn't matter if you pack it in a Swiss bank vault inside of a Bradley armed personnel carrier--to them, it's "insufficient."

I figured that would be the end of it, but no, instead of scrapping the amp and sending me a check for $1600 (the amount for which I'd insured it), they sent the amp back to the UPS Store and instructed the manager there take it to a local electronics store for a repair estimate. But in another fortunate turn of events, the store manager by now was as fed up with UPS corporate as I was, so he found a shop that would declare the amp just short of un-fixable, just to move the process along. That approach actually worked, and roughly six weeks after filing my original claim, I received a $1300 "repair cost" check, along with the amp, which, aside from no longer having a head box, worked just fine.

(Note that I'm leaving out the part where they made me send them something to prove that the amp--which I'd already paid to insure for $1600--was, in fact, worth $1600. But yeah, that happened too.)

So the lesson here is, never, ever, ever ship an amp, and if you do, be sure to pay the extra $25 or so to have the shipper pack it. At least that way, you're pretty likely to get your money back in the not-at-all-unlikely event they "mishandle" it, even if you have to wait six weeks and jump through numerous hoops to do it.

Also, it turns out Bogner builds a pretty sturdy amp. I subsequently bought an NOS head box from someone here on RT, stuffed the TJ chassis inside, installed new tubes and resold the amp locally (disclosing the prior damage, naturally).

Circling back to your original question, I'm of the mind that it's always the shipper's responsibility to provide a refund if the item arrives damaged. Hopefully the guy from whom you purchased the AX8 agrees.
 
Make sure you take pics of everything packing wise, as UPS will need to see the damage. But UPS will usually deny the initial claim, and unless they packed it the insurance isn't worth a damn. Even if you or the seller packed it for war they will fight the claim. Good luck.
 
The shipper is the one with the "contract" with UPS. Meaning they are the party that paid for service at the time of drop off and signed off that the packaging they shipped it in was sufficient. When/if a refund is issued by UPS it will be issued to the seller or person who shipped the item, not the recipient. You should seek your refund from the seller, if they have already extracted or spent the funds you sent them and can not give you an immediate refund you should file a paypal dispute immediately.

I was on the opposite end of this experience some years ago with a Soldano I sold/shipped out. I actually paid the ups store to pack it and insured it for a "replacement value" with documentation of the replacement cost. It took nearly two months to get a refund from UPS and even then I only got back the price I sold the amp for plus the shipping/packing charges. I had cut the buyer a deal along with a trade. This meant that neither the buyer nor I could actually go and buy a replacement for the amp without injecting more cash into the equation. All in all a crappy situation which sent my shipping business to USPS and Fedex exclusively and with the drastic increases to USPS prices I now only use Fedex.
 
FEDEX wrecked a '68 Gibson 335 I had sold to someone back in the 90s. I refunded the guys $$$ to him directly and had him ship me the guitar back, as I felt like he didn't deserve to deal with their BS. I had to go to bat with FEDEX, and went all the way up the chain of command to the CEO of the damn company before I got my $2,000 refunded. It took me a couple months and many many phone calls and emails.

All shipping companies have tightened their restrictions on claims for musical instruments in the last few years.

DONT SHIP AMPS.....unless you really really have to......and if you do....DOUBLE BOX THEM and package them for the end of the world scenario.

your best insurance is GOOD PACKING.
 
Most amps shipped new from the factory don't even have satisfactory packaging. Incidents with shipping are mostly caused by improper packaging. I've never had an issue with anything I've shipped, amps or otherwise (I ship a lot of glass bottles with my other hobby), because I pack the shit out of it. If you aren't comfortable taking the box you just packed and dropping from 6 feet, then you haven't packed it well enough.
 
Rising Farce":2z5nqze9 said:
...
Fortunately, I'd followed my usual practice of having the amp "professionally" packed by the folks at my local UPS Store. Why? In my experience, this the only way to virtually guarantee that UPS will honor any damage claim for the full insured amount. ...
THIS.

Even then, the UPS store won't insure against electronics damage if there isn't obvious exterior damage to the box. That's instructional info, there, boys.
 
mhenson42":1mr8w4vc said:
Most amps shipped new from the factory don't even have satisfactory packaging. Incidents with shipping are mostly caused by improper packaging. I've never had an issue with anything I've shipped, amps or otherwise (I ship a lot of glass bottles with my other hobby), because I pack the shit out of it. If you aren't comfortable taking the box you just packed and dropping from 6 feet, then you haven't packed it well enough.

In fairness, I've probably shipped 20-plus amps through UPS over the years and only had this one issue. And it's certainly possible that in this instance the recipient opened the box, dropped the amp, and then claimed that it arrived damaged.

But in any case, I think the advice re: having UPS pack still applies.
 
Something nice about selling on Reverb and buying the label through them is that Reverb will immediately cover the damages for the seller and hash it out with the shipping vendor on their end. At least that's how it works in theory, as I've been fortunate not to have to go through an ordeal like that.
 
GOHOINC":22qh1sq4 said:
The shipper is the one with the "contract" with UPS. Meaning they are the party that paid for service at the time of drop off and signed off that the packaging they shipped it in was sufficient. When/if a refund is issued by UPS it will be issued to the seller or person who shipped the item, not the recipient. You should seek your refund from the seller, if they have already extracted or spent the funds you sent them and can not give you an immediate refund you should file a paypal dispute immediately.

I was on the opposite end of this experience some years ago with a Soldano I sold/shipped out. I actually paid the ups store to pack it and insured it for a "replacement value" with documentation of the replacement cost. It took nearly two months to get a refund from UPS and even then I only got back the price I sold the amp for plus the shipping/packing charges. I had cut the buyer a deal along with a trade. This meant that neither the buyer nor I could actually go and buy a replacement for the amp without injecting more cash into the equation. All in all a crappy situation which sent my shipping business to USPS and Fedex exclusively and with the drastic increases to USPS prices I now only use Fedex.


I only use fedex
 
Its a shame that u have to let them morons at the ups store to pack your stuff,
Ups stinks
 
Update:

Well I'm kind of stuck. Since I received the ax8 damaged I immediately took pics, contacted the seller, contacted UPS claims, and contacted PayPal to dispute 'item not as described'

By doing all that I cannot simply get a refund from the seller...which at this point I'm sure he would've done because he feels horrible about all of this. The claim has already been set in motion and that would adversely affect HIS claim with UPS by giving me my money back and HIM dealing with UPS.

So now he had to send proof of value to UPS. UPS is going to do what they call an 'on site' visit with me to examine the unit and packing materials. This will be scheduled and can happen either at my home or work. At that point I may have to give them the damaged unit...without even getting my money back!!! This is not sitting well with me. I don't want to give them anything until I am reimbursed.

It's just a screwed up scenario all the way around. By the time I get a refund I'm sure Fractal will probably be out of stock. This just sucks! :thumbsdown:
 
Just insist on them signing a specific receipt that you make out, including model, serial number, etc, when they take it from you. They should have no problem doing that. Get the person's full name, title, and office and cell phone numbers. It's normal business practice.
 
squank":rg6dwe7t said:
Just insist on them signing a specific receipt that you make out, including model, serial number, etc, when they take it from you. They should have no problem doing that. Get the person's full name, title, and office and cell phone numbers. It's normal business practice.
I will. Thank you :thumbsup:
 
I went through this last summer with an amp. I bought an amp that was packed HORRIBLY by UPS store. Of course, it arrived damaged :gethim: I filed a claim with UPS but there was a lack of communication for awhile since UPS and the UPS Store are separate entities.

At this point the seller had to go to the UPS Store where the amp was packed/shipped and file a claim with them. They contacted me, I sent pictures and after several weeks of back and forth, the seller was issued a partial refund, which he then put in my PayPal account.

I would assume that the OP's situation won't involve as many parties, seeing as how it was solely UPS who damaged the item. Good luck getting this resolved!
 
I've had the same happen to me. Seller was great, had me keep item and gave me the cash. I have a feeling that's how it should go.
 
jbrown013":2cs1fqx0 said:
I've had the same happen to me. Seller was great, had me keep item and gave me the cash. I have a feeling that's how it should go.
Well it works fine, just has a big dent in it and the powder coating cracked off. I'm not that picky of a dude, but I'd take a big hit on resale if I ever wanted to sell it. It would be great to keep it AND get a refund. I wouldn't feel right about that, if split the cost with the seller to be fair
 
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