Soldano takes a trip inside EVH's marshall

[Iskra68]

If ed really said he used a variac at 140v , that is a Dick move in my book

It was a dick move and EVH acknowledges that. Back in 78 after reading that article, I bought a variac and did just that to my vintage Marshall and it did not take long to figure out that Ed was not telling the truth. What you get is a glassy stiffer tone. It didn't seem to harm the amp so I moved on. The key is having vintage tranny's (though Merren's PT's and OT's seem to deliver) and dropping the variac down to around 60v. Like others have said, the tone gets anemic at lower AC, but this is where the old MXR 6-band comes into play, slamming the pre-amp into something more acceptable. Here is a clip doing just that; 68plexi/12xxx spec, variac at 60v, into 4x12 BlackBacks, Ibanez Destroyer/Super70 pickup, MXR 6-band, EP-3 Echoplex:
https://youtu.be/2nUDHm3r-pU

 

[paulyc]

^ THAT sounds great !!!

 

[Elric]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread, I have been busy boiling my strings, could someone summarize?

 

[Chester Nimitz]

 

[Kelly]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread, I have been busy boiling my strings, could someone summarize?

Don't believe EVH or Seymour Duncan. That's the gist of it. Anyhoo, surprised nobody mentioned the speaker output trick that you can do with old Fenders. EVH mentioned that he did that in some of those old interviews, too.

 

[sahlomonic]

Given that we can watch plenty of YouTube vids of legit bone stock 68 Marshall Plexi's or knockoffs (Even a Bugera 1960!!!!), using a Variac, and similar guitar/pickups, speakers . . . and get the same tone from AMATEUR low res, non-mixed, non-mastered recordings on a cell phone in a cement walled basement from guys who don't play like EVH does . . .

Tells me that EVH more than likely had a bone stock Marshall with a touch of professional studio magic to sweeten up the sound.

 

[Jayy]

Given that we can watch plenty of YouTube vids of legit bone stock 68 Marshall Plexi's or knockoffs (Even a Bugera 1960!!!!), using a Variac, and similar guitar/pickups, speakers . . . and get the same tone from AMATEUR low res, non-mixed, non-mastered recordings on a cell phone in a cement walled basement from guys who don't play like EVH does . . .

Tells me that EVH more than likely had a bone stock Marshall with a touch of professional studio magic to sweeten up the sound.

Yep!

 

[Rocksoff]

Jose did different mods to suit the occasion.

The zener diode master was only one of them and it was copied by Peavey for their VTM amps.

The Jose zener diode master mod also included an extra amp stage and was towards the higher gain end.

Jose also often used the front panel input sockets for new knobs and EVH's main amp isn't like that at all and neither are his other old Marshall's.

All of that points to Jose making it up and adapting as he went along to suit what the player wanted IMO and I don't know how much of it relates to EVH or if any of it relates to EVH.

I don't know about an extra stage automatically being included with a Jose master, there was a HG and a LG Jose...

The Jose ones I've seen are high gain extra stage zener master's.

I'm not sure if the low gain zeners are Jose or from someone else doing their own variation.

There are/were so many marketing shills into EVH stuff selling their magic potions to EVH fanboys, that believing them is a leap of faith.

Of course EVH was BSing a fair bit as well and some followed his BS.

The only accounts I would tend to believe are the John Suhr one and the Dave Friedman one and one other one that I can't remember at the moment (Steve Fryette VHT) and they all say basically the same things.

John Suhr had EVH's main amp before the rewiring was done by that Dutch dude, and so John Suhr could see the original solder points and what solder points were original and what solder points weren't and he could see the circuit values.

John Suhr's account (from what I can remember) is that the preamp solder points were original (no extra stage mod) except for a fat cap on V2 and the solder points up near the phase inverter could have had something like a master volume connected to them.

Something like a zener master is fine as long as it goes into a good sounding amp in the first place, and the zener voltage can make a big difference.

 

[Rocksoff]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread, I have been busy boiling my strings, could someone summarize?

Don't believe EVH or Seymour Duncan. That's the gist of it. Anyhoo, surprised nobody mentioned the speaker output trick that you can do with old Fenders. EVH mentioned that he did that in some of those old interviews, too.

No one has to believe them about anything, but there are signs of their involvement together such as Seymour's 1979 EVH pickup ad and EVH mentioning rewinds done by someone in Santa Barbara in a 1978 interview and hardly anyone would have made much sense of that at the time because Seymour wasn't big at that time.

The Bandmaster trick was what he used at home for low volume and he says he wrote most of the early VH stuff at home using the Bandmaster.

 

[Rocksoff]

If ed really said he used a variac at 140v , that is a Dick move in my book

It was a dick move and EVH acknowledges that. Back in 78 after reading that article, I bought a variac and did just that to my vintage Marshall and it did not take long to figure out that Ed was not telling the truth. What you get is a glassy stiffer tone. It didn't seem to harm the amp so I moved on. The key is having vintage tranny's (though Merren's PT's and OT's seem to deliver) and dropping the variac down to around 60v. Like others have said, the tone gets anemic at lower AC, but this is where the old MXR 6-band comes into play, slamming the pre-amp into something more acceptable. Here is a clip doing just that; 68plexi/12xxx spec, variac at 60v, into 4x12 BlackBacks, Ibanez Destroyer/Super70 pickup, MXR 6-band, EP-3 Echoplex:
https://youtu.be/2nUDHm3r-pU

Isn't that going from one extreme to another, from 140v to 60v.

90v would have been EVH's target to get around 40 watt output similar to his bandmaster.

EVH ditched his Super 70 in the Destroyer bridge.

The covered bridge pickup doesn't have a Ibanez pickup cover and EVH said it was a Duncan rewind in a 1978 interview.

No real need for the MXR EQ with a Hotter pickup.

EVH's DOTG photo show him bypassing the pedalboard EQ until he hooks up the Univox in the chain and the pedalboard EQ was for the Univox and helping with cable loss and buffering.

When EVH ditches the Univox in 1979, the pedalboard EQ gets ditched as well and so do the pedalboard Univox switch boxes.

When EVH went wireless all of the EQ's (that he used at the end of long cables) got ditched.

EVH's 1978 live setup was the crudest setup, just patched together pedals and makeshift switch boxes for the Univox and Echoplex switches taped near the pedalboard and EQ's acting as cable loss/buffers all into his Echoplexes and 2 sets of amps consisting of 3 daisy chained heads each, all on 10, with variacs and 2 cabs were miced (one mic on one cab from each amp set) and sent through the PA.

He'd swap amp sets for Eruption and the Univox and having 2 amp sets were also for backup purposes and he also had a 3rd amp set ready to go just in case the first 2 amp sets blew (the miced amp head in each set blew).

 

[paulyc]

He had what he called a Nasty Cordless that he said he used an EQ to boost the signal of, so wireless didn't ditch the EQs

 

[Rocksoff]

He had what he called a Nasty Cordless that he said he used an EQ to boost the signal of, so wireless didn't ditch the EQs

I forgot that one.

I was talking about his pedalboard EQ and the EQ's that were at the end of his cables.

The Univox goes and so does the pedalboard EQ's and switchboxes.

The other EQ's at the end of long cables go after he went wireless.

The Schaffer wireless was built into the amp rack in 1979 if I remember correctly.

The pedalboard with the EQ and switch boxes removed was in 1979 if I remember correctly, there was no need for them because he stopped using the Univox.

1979



1978



1979 Schaffer and wireless and main amp retired



1978 EQ at the end of long cables, in front of the Echoplexes

 

[sg guy]

-after all these decade's, this shit is like crack, one pull off the pipe and I get sucked back in,..

 

[Kelly]

Jose did different mods to suit the occasion.

The zener diode master was only one of them and it was copied by Peavey for their VTM amps.

The Jose zener diode master mod also included an extra amp stage and was towards the higher gain end.

Jose also often used the front panel input sockets for new knobs and EVH's main amp isn't like that at all and neither are his other old Marshall's.

All of that points to Jose making it up and adapting as he went along to suit what the player wanted IMO and I don't know how much of it relates to EVH or if any of it relates to EVH.

I don't know about an extra stage automatically being included with a Jose master, there was a HG and a LG Jose...

The Jose ones I've seen are high gain extra stage zener master's.

I'm not sure if the low gain zeners are Jose or from someone else doing their own variation.

There are/were so many marketing shills into EVH stuff selling their magic potions to EVH fanboys, that believing them is a leap of faith.

Of course EVH was BSing a fair bit as well and some followed his BS.

The only accounts I would tend to believe are the John Suhr one and the Dave Friedman one and one other one that I can't remember at the moment (Steve Fryette VHT) and they all say basically the same things.

John Suhr had EVH's main amp before the rewiring was done by that Dutch dude, and so John Suhr could see the original solder points and what solder points were original and what solder points weren't and he could see the circuit values.

John Suhr's account (from what I can remember) is that the preamp solder points were original (no extra stage mod) except for a fat cap on V2 and the solder points up near the phase inverter could have had something like a master volume connected to them.

Something like a zener master is fine as long as it goes into a good sounding amp in the first place, and the zener voltage can make a big difference.

From Steve Fryette...

"Having worked on the supposed IT amp on more than one occasion, I can speak first hand on some of this.

First of all, hate to blow anyone’s bubbles, but there’s not a thing especially outstanding or unique about this amp. Matt Bruck brought what he said was Eds main amp to me in 1990/1 to “bring it back to life” He said Ed felt it just wasn’t the same as it once was and thought the output transformer was “getting weak”. I told him OT’s don’t get weak, but went ahead and checked it out from top to bottom and found not a thing wrong with it at all. In fact it was bone stock and rather clean inside. It sounded like a stock Marshall, put out full power and all of the caps were in good shape. I might add, and this is just from memory, but I recall that the circuit was actually closer to a 70 JMP than it was to a plexi, something I attributed to this possibly being a transition model, seeing as how it had a plexi panel, but apparently the newer input and feedback configuration. All that aside, Matt insisted that something needed to be done so I gave it a complete once-over and I then took the liberty of installing a Pittbull Classic output transformer into it to see if anyone would notice. Upon getting it back, Matt told me that they noticed no difference in sound and they still thought it sounded weak. I just presumed that something else was amiss or had changed and thought no more about it. I still have the receipt and copy of the check for the work signed by Ed, in case anyone wants to try to discredit this claim. I don’t usually talk about it, because frankly Scarlett…but since you went to the effort of posting this here, I though it might be fun to respond to some of the idiots history items:"

 

[bog70]

The amount of discussion on trying to find this sound is never ending. I go back to the 70's. Guys were using 50 watt Marshalls in High School Gyms and bars with Les Pauls and sounded killer. When the MXR Distortion+ came out, EVERYBODY used one.
That EVH 1st album tone is cool, but it's the PRODUCTION that makes it sound so cool.
The same guy did the 1st Montrose album, and those were stellar tones for 1974......and what was it? A Bandmaster and a Big Muff.
If it was a magic amp, the 2nd, 3rd etc VH albums would have had the same vibe, but they don't. The 2nd and 3rd VH album guitar tones are just as good as the 1st, IMO though different.

I spent DECADES trying to sound like Jimi/ Trower. It ain't gonna happen. After you mature, you go for YOUR OWN tone, IMO.

 

[CP5150]

The amount of discussion on trying to find this sound is never ending. I go back to the 70's. Guys were using 50 watt Marshalls in High School Gyms and bars with Les Pauls and sounded killer. When the MXR Distortion+ came out, EVERYBODY used one.
That EVH 1st album tone is cool, but it's the PRODUCTION that makes it sound so cool.
The same guy did the 1st Montrose album, and those were stellar tones for 1974......and what was it? A Bandmaster and a Big Muff.
If it was a magic amp, the 2nd, 3rd etc VH albums would have had the same vibe, but they don't. The 2nd and 3rd VH album guitar tones are just as good as the 1st, IMO though different.

I spent DECADES trying to sound like Jimi/ Trower. It ain't gonna happen. After you mature, you go for YOUR OWN tone, IMO.

I'd argue the fundamental tone is the same. From I thorough 1984. Hot for Teacher and Panama have the Same fizz and grind as anything on VH I. And it's there on VH II. It's more prominent on WACF. Which I think is closest sounding to VH I. The rest is studio, eq, cables, mic and the mic placement and what have you. We've seen behind the curtain there's no mystery anymore. It's a variac and a Super Lead plexi Marshall at 90 volts and biased to match that 90 volts. Pickups are more mysterious and interesting to me at this point. Though that's pretty much covered too. Mr. Friedman very recently said he played that "magic" Marshall and I think he said it was just a good Marshall. Then Ed played it and it sounded like Ed. So there ya have it. Buy a Marshall. I'm trying the el34 5150 III. But I'm a sucker for a gimmick.

 

[scriptphase]

Played tons of amps that do reasonable approximations, but IMO the only amps that flat out nail the vibe are 12000 series Marshalls or clones.

 

[Mesa\Kramer]

EVH's amp Mod

 

[Mesa\Kramer]

...

 

[Rocksoff]

EVH was using his Bandmaster into a Marshall cab in the February 1975 Pasadena clip below, maybe he was using his Goldtop LP into the dimed Bandmaster then into the Marshall cab, he also had a Wah.

He got his Ibanez Destroyer not long after.

Ronnie Montrose used his 3x10 Bandmaster with a stock PAF loaded LP and he only used the Big Muff for some effect in Bad Motor Scooter I think and nothing else, so it was a PAF straight into a 3x10 Bandmaster for the first Montrose album.

According to Ted Templeman EVH wanted to borrow Ronnie's amp.

Whether he did or not who knows.

Pete Townshend used a 3x10 Bandmaster on Won't Get Fooled Again but it wasn't driven that hard.

Imagine putting a hotter pickup into the Bassman in the clip below.

Maybe there is something Fendery and Jensen speakers about VH1.

As any amp sim guru will say, the sound is dominated by the speakers/cab, that's why cab IR's work the way they do.

Also micing.

Trying to guess gear based on what's heard is often a losing battle due to variables and things not being distinct enough to ID 100%.

------

Pasadena 1975

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW4yYck1-f4

1959 Bassman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgqrOCUQzH0

1975