Some cab questions.. :)

[Dragoneti]

Hello everybody!

I have some questions regarding guitar cabs that i would like your opinions...

I have three cabs, one Marshall 1960A (loaded with greenbacks), one framus dragon 4x12A (loaded with t75s now) and one Engl 2x12H pro (classic lead 80s).

Question #1, my engl 2x12H pro is the best sounding cab i have at my disposal, it sounds good either horizontally or placed at its side (like a vertical cab), and with all the speakers i have test it with (many celestion, eminence, ev12l etc). I don't know if this is because it is front loaded, has good wood and construction, has good padding inside on the back, speakers are not slant or all the above but i like its sound in general. So i have begun looking for the equivalent 4x12 cab but at the same time (as i have limited space, too much gear ) I'm thinking to buy just another 2x12H pro and as they have a throu jack to use them stacked as a 4x12.

This will be cheaper (about half the cost for a new or even for a used one) and more convenient space wise but i don't know if it will have a similar sound performance (at least a close one as it is obvious that two boxes cannot have the sound of one bigger, physics wise).


Question #2, On my framus (which comes third in terms of tone among my cabs) it came with some wool padding on its plywood back. Yesterday when I changed speakers to put some T75's I decided to make some tests and eventually replace its wool padding with some acoustic foam (15mm thickness, a bit thinner that the one in the engl) i had laying around. My first test was to remove the wool one and assemble the cab without padding at all. I liked the sound, it was more similar to my Marshall one and it was good in general. Today i thought to place the acoustic foam to the back panel to make it similar to my engl, so i staple it in place and made some test, the cab became a bit bassier but on the same time gained presence and some fizziness that i think it wasn't there with the padding off. I though the padding was primarily to cut highs and make lows tighter but this time it gained presence which was not expected (and not desired).

Is this normal? does padding add presence?

Question #3, I'm thinking of making a plywood back panel for my marshall which has the usual mdf one. The process will not too much trouble as i'm pretty handy working with tools (especially with wood one) and I have all the necessary tools to cut it and shape it (apart from the wood itself and some tolex). What to expect tonally by such modification? Does it worth it?

Thank you in advance for your time and answers!

Stelios.

 

[Spaceboy]

I play two Orange 212s stacked instead of a 412 and it would be incredibly hard for me to admit there's a difference. I decided to get 212s for transportation convenience since I drive a sedan and hauling around a 412 is a pain. These cabinets are very bassy and large though, I imagine there could be a more noticeable difference between a smaller style pair of 212s and matching 412.

 

[Dragoneti]

Engl are also pretty big and heavy, (although I have the advantage not to move my equipment often, pretty much never), I think you are right such big cabs would yield similar tonal effect to one 4x12 thats why i'm thinking of buying just another 2x12 and call it a day...

 

[moronmountain]

Well the change in impedance that you would get using 2 2x12's may affect your tone some as well.

 

[GuitarGuyLP]

I have recently admitted after buying a number of 4x12s that I just prefer the way a 2x12 sounds. I think it has something to do with phasing between the speakers. My latest 2x12 is an EVH 5150 III, and to me it sounds better than my Bogner 4x12. I would say if your 2x12 sounds the best load it up with your favorite speakers, and as long as it is loud enough for your needs call it a day!!!

 

[Dragoneti]

Thank you all for your answers!!

Any suggestions for questions #1 & #3?

 

[chunktone]

If you dig the Engl I'd just go with that. If 1 2x12 is not enough I'd look at the 4x12 version of it. As far as changing the back panel on your other cab, I would not mess with it. I'd just move it, and get something you like.

 

[moronmountain]

Thank you all for your answers!!

Any suggestions for questions #1 & #3?

#3.......... I actually plan on doing this to my 1960a JCM800 cab. My buddy has an old, all wood, metal handled Marshall 4x12 straight that I took apart to check out. In fact, I made a replica of it, but have yet to load it. IMO the wood back makes the cab slightly brighter/woodier sounding. Just keep the old back, and the worst thing that could happen is that you'd lose a few bux on a piece of plywood. Make sure you get marine grade/void free/furniture quality type baltic birch. Most "boutique" cabs are 13 ply, or right at about 3/4". Most nice baltic birch plywood is either 3/4" or 1/2." I know for certain my JCM cab is 5/8", and iirc so is an old Marshall cab. If you want the back to match perfecty, you need to find the 5/8" stuff. I think it's 9 ply for 1/2", 11 ply for 5/8", and of course 13 ply for 3/4". Just take a tape measure with you. Also, the place I bought my stuff from only sold in 5'x5' pieces, so you will end up wasting quite a bit, and it's pretty expensive. I honestly think that the reason many boutique builders put the foam or whatever inside the backs of their all wood cabs is to take off some of the brightness much like the newer Marshall's press board does.

The main reason I'm thinking about doing it is to try and tighten up my Marshall cab some. It farts out at 16 ohms when I'm pushing some volume and have the lows boosted a bit on my Ultra Lead. If I run w Marshalls at 8 ohm, there is no farting, but it's not as punchy either. In comparison, my Deliverance cab doesn't do this at all, but it's sealed back, and front loaded like an 80's Hiwatt cab, so that's probably most of the difference.

 

[moronmountain]

#1, yes you probably like the Engl because it's front loaded if I had to guess. Front load cabs seem to me to be a bit tighter and brighter than rear loaded. If you like the 2x12, why do you want to mess with it at all? If it's for looks, just put your 2x12 on top of a 4x12 for a 3/4 sized stack, and just only use the top one. That's how I'd do it. I have actually thought of building a 6x12 cab, but I need to make sure my practice model 4x12 works ok, and doesn't vibrate, etc.

 

[Dragoneti]

thank you all for your answers!

Yes most likely I like my Engl for being front loaded (and build as a tank in general) etc and possibly that speakers are straight in either position (horizontaly or vertically placed) where the other two cabs have the top ones slant. The only reason I think of another engl cab, is that my Framus is less than optimal both sound wise and construction wise and I was thinking of somewhat put it to the unused side, and making Engl to take its place in either 2x 212 cabs or another 4x12 cab (although the 4x12 is pretty expensive here in Greece and in general, about 400€ more than the classic Marshall one).

As for my Marshall, I like its tone, has the classic Marshall sound (which i love by the way, i'm a Marshall guy), especially loaded with greenbacks so the only reason I ask for the plywood back is due to the fact that it comes frequently on discussions and as its a nice (and easy) project to keep my hands full so I thought why not, but then again, I wanted some feedback first...

As for padding the general consensus is that cuts treble and makes bass tighter, but in my Framus (plywood back which came with foam and now has a different kind one) padding make its more fizzy in the treble side as well as more present... which is unexpected to say the least... I think I will remove it once again just to make sure its not placebo.