Suggest me EL34 for VH sound in my QR..?

[baron55]

This has been said a gazillion times before, but if you're going for the VH1 sound, no EL34 will get you there. And on top of that, the preamp of the QR is more like a hot rodded JCM-800. TOo much preamp gain.

So he used EL34s. And I can't get his sound with them? Are you referring to the 6CA7 tubes Ed used? Same tube. US version of EL34 is 6CA7.

Big NOPE on this. Yes the 6CA7/EL34 is commonly referred to as the same tube. But in the US Sylvania Made a tube they they called a 6CA7, but it wasn't even close to a EL34. It was a Kinkless Tetrode like a KT77, and KT88. EL34's are power Pentodes. Sylvania also made these tubes re-branded under the RCA name. EVH used these tubes eclusively and bought hoards of them when they were drying up.

The Sylvania 6CA7 is much closer to an aggressive 6L6 than it is an EL34. Ever wonder why every EVH signature amp uses 6L6's? Because they are the closest thing to his old 6CA7's

Sylvania and RCA made a 6CA7 which was a kinless tetrode but they biased up and had similar plate impedance's of EL34's so they were a easy drop in, but in no way sounded or performed the same.

Only Sylvania and RCA made a real 6CA7. Now supposedly Electro Harmonix makes a clone of this type. But the verdict is out on that one.

Every other tube maker in the world that made a 6CA7 was just a re-labeled EL34.


Cool Article

https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences

EL34, 6CA7 AND KT77

EL34 - EUROPEAN INVENTION

Mullard in England developed EL34 in the 1950's. EL34 handled lots of power in a small envelope. EL34 became very popular in audio amplification. The market expanded. And many European tube manufacturers soon started manufacturing EL34.

6CA7 - AMERICA'S ANSWER

Not to be outdone, Sylvania introduced fat-bottled 6CA7 in US soon after. 6CA7 was not a copy of EL34, it was a design of its own. 6CA7 is drop-in compatible with EL34, but it sounds closer to 6L6 because of this.

GEC KT77 - ULTIMATE EL34

GEC in West London, England introduced KT77 as the ultimate medium power audio tube. KT77 employed an internal construction resembling 6CA7. GEC optimized KT77 for use in audio application. This makes KT77 the ultimate EL34 for audiophile.

THEN THEY WERE THE SAME

As years passed, tube manufacturers consolidated worldwide. EL34 and 6CA7 came to be treated the same because they were interchangeable. This is why you see some NOS tubes marked as EL34/6CA7.

KT77 all but disappeared when GEC stopped production in the 80's.

 

[sixstringking713]

This has been said a gazillion times before, but if you're going for the VH1 sound, no EL34 will get you there. And on top of that, the preamp of the QR is more like a hot rodded JCM-800. TOo much preamp gain.

So he used EL34s. And I can't get his sound with them? Are you referring to the 6CA7 tubes Ed used? Same tube. US version of EL34 is 6CA7.

Big NOPE on this. Yes the 6CA7/EL34 is commonly referred to as the same tube. But in the US Sylvania Made a tube they they called a 6CA7, but it wasn't even close to a EL34. It was a Kinkless Tetrode like a KT77, and KT88. EL34's are power Pentodes. Sylvania also made these tubes re-branded under the RCA name. EVH used these tubes eclusively and bought hoards of them when they were drying up.

The Sylvania 6CA7 is much closer to an aggressive 6L6 than it is an EL34. Ever wonder why every EVH signature amp uses 6L6's? Because they are the closest thing to his old 6CA7's

Sylvania and RCA made a 6CA7 which was a kinless tetrode but they biased up and had similar plate impedance's of EL34's so they were a easy drop in, but in no way sounded or performed the same.

Only Sylvania and RCA made a real 6CA7. Now supposedly Electro Harmonix makes a clone of this type. But the verdict is out on that one.

Every other tube maker in the world that made a 6CA7 was just a re-labeled EL34.


Cool Article

https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences

EL34, 6CA7 AND KT77

EL34 - EUROPEAN INVENTION

Mullard in England developed EL34 in the 1950's. EL34 handled lots of power in a small envelope. EL34 became very popular in audio amplification. The market expanded. And many European tube manufacturers soon started manufacturing EL34.

6CA7 - AMERICA'S ANSWER

Not to be outdone, Sylvania introduced fat-bottled 6CA7 in US soon after. 6CA7 was not a copy of EL34, it was a design of its own. 6CA7 is drop-in compatible with EL34, but it sounds closer to 6L6 because of this.

GEC KT77 - ULTIMATE EL34

GEC in West London, England introduced KT77 as the ultimate medium power audio tube. KT77 employed an internal construction resembling 6CA7. GEC optimized KT77 for use in audio application. This makes KT77 the ultimate EL34 for audiophile.

THEN THEY WERE THE SAME

As years passed, tube manufacturers consolidated worldwide. EL34 and 6CA7 came to be treated the same because they were interchangeable. This is why you see some NOS tubes marked as EL34/6CA7.

KT77 all but disappeared when GEC stopped production in the 80's.

thanks for detailed info

my whole reason for the post was just what should I buy that's currently out there and not NOS etc.. lol. I don't need it identical to his sound, just in the same ballpark. I think people get caught in the weeds fairly quickly chasing ed's tones...

 

[baron55]

This has been said a gazillion times before, but if you're going for the VH1 sound, no EL34 will get you there. And on top of that, the preamp of the QR is more like a hot rodded JCM-800. TOo much preamp gain.

So he used EL34s. And I can't get his sound with them? Are you referring to the 6CA7 tubes Ed used? Same tube. US version of EL34 is 6CA7.

Big NOPE on this. Yes the 6CA7/EL34 is commonly referred to as the same tube. But in the US Sylvania Made a tube they they called a 6CA7, but it wasn't even close to a EL34. It was a Kinkless Tetrode like a KT77, and KT88. EL34's are power Pentodes. Sylvania also made these tubes re-branded under the RCA name. EVH used these tubes eclusively and bought hoards of them when they were drying up.

The Sylvania 6CA7 is much closer to an aggressive 6L6 than it is an EL34. Ever wonder why every EVH signature amp uses 6L6's? Because they are the closest thing to his old 6CA7's

Sylvania and RCA made a 6CA7 which was a kinless tetrode but they biased up and had similar plate impedance's of EL34's so they were a easy drop in, but in no way sounded or performed the same.



Only Sylvania and RCA made a real 6CA7. Now supposedly Electro Harmonix makes a clone of this type. But the verdict is out on that one.

Every other tube maker in the world that made a 6CA7 was just a re-labeled EL34.


Cool Article

https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences

EL34, 6CA7 AND KT77

EL34 - EUROPEAN INVENTION

Mullard in England developed EL34 in the 1950's. EL34 handled lots of power in a small envelope. EL34 became very popular in audio amplification. The market expanded. And many European tube manufacturers soon started manufacturing EL34.

6CA7 - AMERICA'S ANSWER

Not to be outdone, Sylvania introduced fat-bottled 6CA7 in US soon after. 6CA7 was not a copy of EL34, it was a design of its own. 6CA7 is drop-in compatible with EL34, but it sounds closer to 6L6 because of this.

GEC KT77 - ULTIMATE EL34

GEC in West London, England introduced KT77 as the ultimate medium power audio tube. KT77 employed an internal construction resembling 6CA7. GEC optimized KT77 for use in audio application. This makes KT77 the ultimate EL34 for audiophile.

THEN THEY WERE THE SAME

As years passed, tube manufacturers consolidated worldwide. EL34 and 6CA7 came to be treated the same because they were interchangeable. This is why you see some NOS tubes marked as EL34/6CA7.

KT77 all but disappeared when GEC stopped production in the 80's.

thanks for detailed info

my whole reason for the post was just what should I buy that's currently out there and not NOS etc.. lol. I don't need it identical to his sound, just in the same ballpark. I think people get caught in the weeds fairly quickly chasing ed's tones...

Yep for years guys have been doing the EL34 Marshall thing to get his sound and come to know he was using a "harder" sounding tube. NOS US 6CA7's are going for crazy prices.

That old pic of them in the recording studio with that old Marshall with the mystery Jose knob, shows a quad of big bottle 6CA7's

 

[CP5150]

This has been said a gazillion times before, but if you're going for the VH1 sound, no EL34 will get you there. And on top of that, the preamp of the QR is more like a hot rodded JCM-800. TOo much preamp gain.

So he used EL34s. And I can't get his sound with them? Are you referring to the 6CA7 tubes Ed used? Same tube. US version of EL34 is 6CA7.

Big NOPE on this. Yes the 6CA7/EL34 is commonly referred to as the same tube. But in the US Sylvania Made a tube they they called a 6CA7, but it wasn't even close to a EL34. It was a Kinkless Tetrode like a KT77, and KT88. EL34's are power Pentodes. Sylvania also made these tubes re-branded under the RCA name. EVH used these tubes eclusively and bought hoards of them when they were drying up.

The Sylvania 6CA7 is much closer to an aggressive 6L6 than it is an EL34. Ever wonder why every EVH signature amp uses 6L6's? Because they are the closest thing to his old 6CA7's

Sylvania and RCA made a 6CA7 which was a kinless tetrode but they biased up and had similar plate impedance's of EL34's so they were a easy drop in, but in no way sounded or performed the same.

Only Sylvania and RCA made a real 6CA7. Now supposedly Electro Harmonix makes a clone of this type. But the verdict is out on that one.

Every other tube maker in the world that made a 6CA7 was just a re-labeled EL34.


Cool Article

https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences

EL34, 6CA7 AND KT77

EL34 - EUROPEAN INVENTION

Mullard in England developed EL34 in the 1950's. EL34 handled lots of power in a small envelope. EL34 became very popular in audio amplification. The market expanded. And many European tube manufacturers soon started manufacturing EL34.

6CA7 - AMERICA'S ANSWER

Not to be outdone, Sylvania introduced fat-bottled 6CA7 in US soon after. 6CA7 was not a copy of EL34, it was a design of its own. 6CA7 is drop-in compatible with EL34, but it sounds closer to 6L6 because of this.

GEC KT77 - ULTIMATE EL34

GEC in West London, England introduced KT77 as the ultimate medium power audio tube. KT77 employed an internal construction resembling 6CA7. GEC optimized KT77 for use in audio application. This makes KT77 the ultimate EL34 for audiophile.

THEN THEY WERE THE SAME

As years passed, tube manufacturers consolidated worldwide. EL34 and 6CA7 came to be treated the same because they were interchangeable. This is why you see some NOS tubes marked as EL34/6CA7.

KT77 all but disappeared when GEC stopped production in the 80's.

Yeah, I've heard all that before. And I've heard EL34 Marshalls come damn close if not have the early VH sound. I can't afford to do it, but I'd love to buy a Bogner Helios and a Fryette Power station. I'd bet I can get the 1984 tone with it. Especially Drop Dead Legs.

I've been and will continue to play 5150 amps since they came out. What's always missing is the EL34 chunky knock sound. I suspect KT88s can do it too. Think Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love intro. That's what's missing from my 5150 amps. It's a subtle thing. But it's a piece of the the VH puzzle I miss. Nuno gets it. And what's he using? A JMC 2000 with a Ratt pedal in front that he hides behind his Randall amps. Or did. I think the Randall amp deal is dead for him.

One last thing and I'll stop. If the 6L6 is closer to what Ed used and or wanted then why is he now making an EL34 5150 III? Which from a design standpoint is a disappointment. Maybe it sounds good? I dont know. Maybe. Wish he had done something closer to a Marshall with power scaling like his new combos.

 

[Rick Lee]

If the 6L6 is closer to what Ed used and or wanted then why is he now making an EL34 5150 III?

I don't think he had much to do with it. He mentioned in an interview that people were clamoring for the old, vintage Brown Sound. Fender's marketing folks put their heads together and thought the EL34 head would be a winner. I haven't gotten to play one yet, but I have had all the other EVH heads and they do not do the vintage Marshall thing at all.

 

[hammered]

This has been said a gazillion times before, but if you're going for the VH1 sound, no EL34 will get you there. And on top of that, the preamp of the QR is more like a hot rodded JCM-800. TOo much preamp gain.

So he used EL34s. And I can't get his sound with them? Are you referring to the 6CA7 tubes Ed used? Same tube. US version of EL34 is 6CA7.

Big NOPE on this. Yes the 6CA7/EL34 is commonly referred to as the same tube. But in the US Sylvania Made a tube they they called a 6CA7, but it wasn't even close to a EL34. It was a Kinkless Tetrode like a KT77, and KT88. EL34's are power Pentodes. Sylvania also made these tubes re-branded under the RCA name. EVH used these tubes eclusively and bought hoards of them when they were drying up.

The Sylvania 6CA7 is much closer to an aggressive 6L6 than it is an EL34. Ever wonder why every EVH signature amp uses 6L6's? Because they are the closest thing to his old 6CA7's

Sylvania and RCA made a 6CA7 which was a kinless tetrode but they biased up and had similar plate impedance's of EL34's so they were a easy drop in, but in no way sounded or performed the same.

Only Sylvania and RCA made a real 6CA7. Now supposedly Electro Harmonix makes a clone of this type. But the verdict is out on that one.

Every other tube maker in the world that made a 6CA7 was just a re-labeled EL34.


Cool Article

https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences

EL34, 6CA7 AND KT77

EL34 - EUROPEAN INVENTION

Mullard in England developed EL34 in the 1950's. EL34 handled lots of power in a small envelope. EL34 became very popular in audio amplification. The market expanded. And many European tube manufacturers soon started manufacturing EL34.

6CA7 - AMERICA'S ANSWER

Not to be outdone, Sylvania introduced fat-bottled 6CA7 in US soon after. 6CA7 was not a copy of EL34, it was a design of its own. 6CA7 is drop-in compatible with EL34, but it sounds closer to 6L6 because of this.

GEC KT77 - ULTIMATE EL34

GEC in West London, England introduced KT77 as the ultimate medium power audio tube. KT77 employed an internal construction resembling 6CA7. GEC optimized KT77 for use in audio application. This makes KT77 the ultimate EL34 for audiophile.

THEN THEY WERE THE SAME

As years passed, tube manufacturers consolidated worldwide. EL34 and 6CA7 came to be treated the same because they were interchangeable. This is why you see some NOS tubes marked as EL34/6CA7.

KT77 all but disappeared when GEC stopped production in the 80's.

Yeah, I've heard all that before. And I've heard EL34 Marshalls come damn close if not have the early VH sound. I can't afford to do it, but I'd love to buy a Bogner Helios and a Fryette Power station. I'd bet I can get the 1984 tone with it. Especially Drop Dead Legs.

I've been and will continue to play 5150 amps since they came out. What's always missing is the EL34 chunky knock sound. I suspect KT88s can do it too. Think Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love intro. That's what's missing from my 5150 amps. It's a subtle thing. But it's a piece of the the VH puzzle I miss. Nuno gets it. And what's he using? A JMC 2000 with a Ratt pedal in front that he hides behind his Randall amps. Or did. I think the Randall amp deal is dead for him.

One last thing and I'll stop. If the 6L6 is closer to what Ed used and or wanted then why is he now making an EL34 5150 III? Which from a design standpoint is a disappointment. Maybe it sounds good? I dont know. Maybe. Wish he had done something closer to a Marshall with power scaling like his new combos.

Can you play like Ed and capture his vibe ? That's gonna be the most important thing if your trying to nail his tone

 

[gtrjunior]

Ive got the stock tubes that Scott installs in mine and they sound pretty damn good. So far I havent had any reliability issues. They are about a year old but I havent pushed them too hard yet. They have seen only about 3-4 gigs so far. I have swapped out the preamp tubes for some NOS beauties I have.

 

[napalmdeath]

I don't think one power tube over another will get you VH tone. Pretty silly, if you ask me.

 

[Rick Lee]

I don't think one power tube over another will get you VH tone. Pretty silly, if you ask me.

There's no single thing that will do it, but rather a bunch of things working together. I really don't hear much difference between power tubes, but we all know EVH was pretty firm on the Sylvania 6CA7s. I can hear a difference in transformers, and Marshall used several different brands over the years. A Dagnall from 1968 is not the same thing as one from 2001. Then you have the Mustard caps, then Donn Landee's magic two microphones and the Variac and the EchoPlex(es) and the wet/dry setup and on and on. Oh, and you need to know how to play that stuff correctly too.

 

[napalmdeath]

I don't think one power tube over another will get you VH tone. Pretty silly, if you ask me.

There's no single thing that will do it, but rather a bunch of things working together. I really don't hear much difference between power tubes, but we all know EVH was pretty firm on the Sylvania 6CA7s. I can hear a difference in transformers, and Marshall used several different brands over the years. A Dagnall from 1968 is not the same thing as one from 2001. Then you have the Mustard caps, then Donn Landee's magic two microphones and the Variac and the EchoPlex(es) and the wet/dry setup and on and on. Oh, and you need to know how to play that stuff correctly too.

The interesting thing with 6CA7's of today, they'd probably be my last choice. I've used both the EH and JJ varieties, (in JVM's and a Mesa Stiletto), and while both sounded good, they really need pushed hard.

And, after owning both a Quick Rod, and a Competition, I'd suggest a David Bray modded Plexi, or one of his own amps. Brown sound out of the box. Being Eddie Van Halen will probably get you there too.

People want "George Lynch tone" too, and out of the gazillion amps he uses, used, and/or endorsed, he still manages to sound like George Lynch. They always seem to sound like them.

 

[sixstringking713]

You guys are way overcomplicating this.. I was basically just asking of those 3 el34, is there one that is an obvious better choice to get closer to evh power section compression than the others..

Obviously a single power tube choice is not going to magically get you evh tone, I'm not asking for that

 

[napalmdeath]

You guys are way overcomplicating this.. I was basically just asking of those 3 el34, is there one that is an obvious better choice to get closer to evh power section compression than the others..

Obviously a single power tube choice is not going to magically get you evh tone, I'm not asking for that

The answer to your question is NONE will get you closer to VH tone. Power tubes are the least likely to get you there, period, end of discussion.

Now, take "I wanna sound like VH" out of the equation, New Sensor Svetlana EL34's have great mid growl, and their Mullards are good tubes as well. Personally, KT77s are my go-to. Most aggressive EL34 variant, for sure.

What do you use for a cab??

 

[sixstringking713]

You guys are way overcomplicating this.. I was basically just asking of those 3 el34, is there one that is an obvious better choice to get closer to evh power section compression than the others..

Obviously a single power tube choice is not going to magically get you evh tone, I'm not asking for that

The answer to your question is NONE will get you closer to VH tone. Power tubes are the least likely to get you there, period, end of discussion.

Now, take "I wanna sound like VH" out of the equation, New Sensor Svetlana EL34's have great mid growl, and their Mullards are good tubes as well. Personally, KT77s are my go-to. Most aggressive EL34 variant, for sure.

What do you use for a cab??

usually one of my marshall 1960 cabs A or B w/ greenbacks

 

[sahlomonic]

Eh, depends on what you consider "nail." IMO the type EL34s will be irrelevant at typical gig volumes, speakers play a much larger role and playing even larger still. Regardless of the type of EL34 no splawn will nail that tone the same as an old nmv marshall cranked to the gills, either. But close enough? Of course.

I agree mostly with this statement. I had a QR for about a year, and just recently serviced my buddy's QR that he's had for 3 years. My JTM45 clone that I modded can 'nail' that early brown sound much better than the QR ever could.

Power tubes (or preamp tubes for the sake of arguement) just aren't going to make that much difference if you're looking to 'nail' a tone. Either the amp has that tone or mojo naturally, or it doesn't.

To answer the OP's question, I like JJ KT77 and also EL34L tubes in the QR, and with very well broken in Greenbacks (I have Blackbacks in my cab).