Suhr Iso Line-Out Box vs Marshall SE-100 (Line Out quality)

[Bevosss]

Hi guys, I'm pretty sold on the Ownhammer nebula cab impulses, so I need to get my amps (Herbert/Recto) into my daw direct from the power amp. I already own the SE-100 from years ago, it works as a reactive load ok, but mostly I can run through cabs here anyway, except mainly late at night...so, I'm more interested in the respective line out quality on each.

I've read some good things about the Suhr unit, I know it's balanced out which the Marshall isn't for starters...does anybody have experience with both? Like, will I see a noticeable difference in tone using the Suhr over the SE-100?

Just to fully clarify, I'll be recording through a Diezel Herbert or Recto Power Amp into a Mesa O/S cab, but taking a tap off which ever power amp I'm using (the pre will be one of the above or more likely a Mako MAK4), into a Fireface 800 line input..

Thanks for any advice! I hope somebody had experience with both. Or, if you think I can do better eg Faustine/Torpedo, please advise me. I just want a transparent line out that a speaker would otherwise receive, preferably without breaking the bank.

Cheers!

 

[JTyson]

Why not use the balanced output on your SE100? I've had good luck with mine as a second track, but from what I've heard of the Suhr's iso box, it sounds as good if not better than the SE100, you just have the option of pushing the amp harder with less room volume with the SE100. I like miked cab tones better for a main source, sometimes I'll add the SE100 on a seperate track with some sauce added. The SE100 seems to suck a little top out of the tone, I usually have to add some highs when using it. I would not say it was transparent, it does seem to color the tone a bit. The Suhr might be better from that standpoint also.
Psychodaves using a Suhr Iso box in his clips, they sound great

 

[Bevosss]

Why not use the balanced output on your SE100?

The balanced out on the SE-100 is compensated only, I need an uncompensated line in...balanced should be quieter at least.

 

[JTyson]

Check out the clip-collective sub forum, Dave has several in there lurking about

 

[Rogue]

I can't speak of the line out of the SE-100. Well, really I can't speak of the Suhr either, but I can speak of DI boxes in terms of reactive and resistive loads. I don't know what kind of load the SE-100. I would guess at best it's partially reactive and partially resistive. This is going to influence your sound going to the DAW.

For recording purposes, IMO you're going to get the best tone (going direct) with amp--->suhr iso--->cab...with the suhr going to the DAW for the IRs. This will give you a real speaker load and your amp will behave normally. Any other load, unless a really good reactive load device that mimicks speaker load, is going to lessen the quality of your tone.

Keep the suhr inline all the time, record with the cab as load for best quality and SE-100 as the load when you want to mess around silently.

I'm curious about the Nebula. What's the difference between Nebula and a standard convolution plug in?

 

[Bevosss]

I don't know what kind of load the SE-100. I would guess at best it's partially reactive and partially resistive. This is going to influence your sound going to the DAW.

Nah, I'm going to use the cabs mostly for a reactive load, as I said earlier...I'm just curious what improvement if any the Suhr gives me over the Marshall re line box out.

I'm curious about the Nebula. What's the difference between Nebula and a standard convolution plug in?

Nebula uses dynamic convolution...to me, it sounds like miking a real cab. Static convolution sounds 2D for want of a better descrription.

 

[sysexguy]

The Suhr ISo-LO does not provide any load so a speaker must be connected and the volume managed if required. Not connecting a speaker will damage your amp. You could connect the ISo-line out in between the amp and a loadbox (like the se-100) and then you're good to go. While you're at it, give the Torpedo PI-free a shot too http://www.two-notes.com/pi-free Yes I'm affiliated with both companies but hope this info is useful and pertinent to the discussion.

Andy

 

[Bevosss]

I'm not actually interested in a load box guys...I already have one (the SE-100), and I'm more likely to be running the speaker when recording for optimum feel.

Basically, I just need a comparison between the Suhr and the Marshall as a LINE OUT...if anyone knows how much better the Suhr is, if at all.

Thanks for the Torpedo suggestion sysexguy, I have been trialing that for a few days also...it's a pretty good plugin in a lot of ways! It's power amp modelling isn't quite right though, seems to truncate a lot of bottom end with the power amp volume down, plus it needs an auto-gain or compare feature to compare properly (like on the Slate FG-X), it seems you need to really push it to make it sound better, by which stage it's really loud, so you are always juggling balancing the overall volume against the power amp volume. Even that aside, the Ownhammer nebula impulses sound and feel more like playing through a real cab to me, and sit in the mix beautifully...more 3D and 'real' to my ears. The Torpedo does seem a step up on static convolution though eg Redwirez, very easy to use bar the power amp, and will have some cool mic choices.

I guess I'll trial the full version and make up my mind, but at this stage I'm favoring the Nebula Cabs sound and workflow...I could well end up with both though!

Enough derailing my own thread...anyone got any thoughts on Suhr vs Marshall as a line out box?

 

[bmi]

Nebula brings nothing or just for nobrainers.

 

[Rogue]

Nebula uses dynamic convolution...to me, it sounds like miking a real cab. Static convolution sounds 2D for want of a better descrription.

I had heard Nebula doesn't sound any better merely using the IRs, but that it had other features which made it cool. If you're just using the IR, does it still sound better? Is there any comparisons out there? The Nebula files are a more expensive than the wav.

What else does Nebula do? I know it has other "features", but I don't know anything about it. Do you use these other features to get it sound better?

 

[Rogue]

Nebula brings nothing or just for nobrainers.

What does this mean?

 

[Bevosss]

Nebula uses dynamic convolution...to me, it sounds like miking a real cab. Static convolution sounds 2D for want of a better descrription.

I had heard Nebula doesn't sound any better merely using the IRs, but that it had other features which made it cool. If you're just using the IR, does it still sound better? Is there any comparisons out there? The Nebula files are a more expensive than the wav.

What else does Nebula do? I know it has other "features", but I don't know anything about it. Do you use these other features to get it sound better?

It's the IRs that sound more dynamic, Nebula is just the player (although the only player for them at this stage). The Ownhammer impulses need no tweaking, you just need the paid for version of Nebula (I use Nebula3 Pro). The gui is crappy and it's a bit too techy overall, and it doesn't sample amp saturation...but what it does, eg reverbs/tapes/preamps/desks/and now cabs, it does fantastic.

 

[Rogue]

It's the IRs that sound more dynamic, Nebula is just the player (although the only player for them at this stage). The Ownhammer impulses need no tweaking, you just need the paid for version of Nebula (I use Nebula3 Pro). The gui is crappy and it's a bit too techy overall, and it doesn't sample amp saturation...but what it does, eg reverbs/tapes/preamps/desks/and now cabs, it does fantastic.

Can you use the Ownhammers in the demo Nebula? I'd like to try one out and see.

 

[Bevosss]

It's the IRs that sound more dynamic, Nebula is just the player (although the only player for them at this stage). The Ownhammer impulses need no tweaking, you just need the paid for version of Nebula (I use Nebula3 Pro). The gui is crappy and it's a bit too techy overall, and it doesn't sample amp saturation...but what it does, eg reverbs/tapes/preamps/desks/and now cabs, it does fantastic.

Can you use the Ownhammers in the demo Nebula? I'd like to try one out and see.

I think you at least need the cheapest Nebula, which was $20 last I knew...the free version won't run them AFAIK.

Ownhammer sound samples are here, gtr only and mix in a variety of styles, and they are all using Nebula. I've spoken with Kevin via email, and he uses the Nebula cab version himself with a Suhr box. (they are also in sysex and wav)

http://www.ownhammer.com/media/speakercabinets/

Fwiw I ordered the Iso Line-Out Box today, so I'll let you guys know how it stacks up to the SE-100.

 

[Rogue]

Fwiw I ordered the Iso Line-Out Box today, so I'll let you guys know how it stacks up to the SE-100.

I'd be curious to this as well. Even moreso against other DI boxes for anyone that may know.

 

[Bevosss]

Well I did the test...at first I thought there was no difference. No change in noise floor between them, they both sounded pretty much the same upon listening on my first test.

Anyways, I gain-matched them exactly, and flipped the phase on one track...they didn't null. It dropped to around -30dB rms or so, I've been able to null my cheapest and my dearest D.I.s to around -85 or 90dB, so it was a significant difference...mostly bottom end content audible, so I'd say there's some difference there.

I zoomed in on the waveforms and they looked exactly the same, same shape and sample accurate, exact same phase, just very very slight differences in amplitude.

So anyway, I was still having trouble hearing a difference, so I sent the audio out through my Crown K2 power amp into my Mesa O/S cab, cranked up the volume, and switched between the tracks.

The Suhr track at the exact same dB level was slightly punchier and slightly more high end cut and lwo end resonance, it's not huge but it's audible. You have to listen pretty hard to tell though! I duplicated the tracks many times and switched between them with my eyes closed, and I always chose the Suhr track, so I'm confident it's not placebo.

So the verdict: the SE-100 gives a pretty good representation of the power amp line-out, even though it's unbalanced and active, it sounds pretty good. I will use it for sending a second power amp direct to the daw in a flash.

The Suhr is very portable though, more rugged, needs no power supply for the line out, and sounds ever so slightly better. Also it's balanced so probably better on a live gig, although like I said the noise floor was the same on both in my studio.

That's my experience, hope it helps someone sometime...

 

[Rogue]

You used the Suhr inline with the SE100 and your amp or speaker cabinet?

 

[Bevosss]

Yep...power amp -> suhr iso -> se-100 speaker thru -> cab

You can use it in parallel too according to John, as long as they are the same load...it tested the same that way as well. I think I tried every possible way, it still worked.

 

[Jimmie]

Everything with the name "Suhr" on it can be expected to be a quality piece of gear.


Has anyone watching this thread had the ability to A/B any other ISO's against the MW1 Studio tool?

Thanks,
Jimmie

 

[threadkiller]

I think I'm going to try the Suhr Line out box live and see how it sounds.