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harddriver
Well-known member
Very Nice Spider!
SpiderWars
Well-known member
Thanks @harddriver !
Last pics. I'll try to make a clip tonight. I think it sounds great even tho it doesn't have a ton of gain. With an SD1 it's killer tho. And I'm super pleased with the noise floor.
I know I'll reach for the wrong knobs (and this Master is kind of trigger-finger-ish) so some easily removable labels on the bottom shelf until I do it right. And real vintage knobs for the two Gain controls because that's all I had. But they are slightly smaller so they work there. They are both pulled in the pic.
![IMG-20220331-132140.jpg[\img]](https://i.postimg.cc/FRC9whHP/IMG-20220331-132140.jpg[\img])
Last pics. I'll try to make a clip tonight. I think it sounds great even tho it doesn't have a ton of gain. With an SD1 it's killer tho. And I'm super pleased with the noise floor.
I know I'll reach for the wrong knobs (and this Master is kind of trigger-finger-ish) so some easily removable labels on the bottom shelf until I do it right. And real vintage knobs for the two Gain controls because that's all I had. But they are slightly smaller so they work there. They are both pulled in the pic.
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nico22
Member
You Said too bright in jel mode : try 680n electrolytic cathode caps, also first couling cap is 2,2n , not 22n as it seems you put in your amp… also Check supply voltage at Pi (about 320v)) and first tube ( about 250v) . Play with res droppers to get those voltages.
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harddriver
Well-known member
Looks great Spider so you are able to switch between the two cathode resistor values with the push/pull switch?
Looks like you have a stock 10K value and a 3.3K/.68uf cathode values on V1A.
I built a 50 watter about 12 years ago where I used a three way switch to select between three different cathode values. Stock 10K, 2.7K/.68uf Cameron and I can't remember what the third value was but it was ripping little amp. I was a hodge podge of Marshall and Cameron values. I wish I had gotten some clips of it. It's too bad you can't make them footswitchable... I think you possibly could with a single latching footswitch without a relay. The original Splawn modded amp would shunt a 6K cathode resistor for increased gain.
That amp should scratch the 2203 itch and then some, I like all of the JEL clips that I have heard. Your ignored ole Super Bass should be getting more playtime soon.
Looks like you have a stock 10K value and a 3.3K/.68uf cathode values on V1A.
I built a 50 watter about 12 years ago where I used a three way switch to select between three different cathode values. Stock 10K, 2.7K/.68uf Cameron and I can't remember what the third value was but it was ripping little amp. I was a hodge podge of Marshall and Cameron values. I wish I had gotten some clips of it. It's too bad you can't make them footswitchable... I think you possibly could with a single latching footswitch without a relay. The original Splawn modded amp would shunt a 6K cathode resistor for increased gain.
That amp should scratch the 2203 itch and then some, I like all of the JEL clips that I have heard. Your ignored ole Super Bass should be getting more playtime soon.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
Thanks man! Yep that's the standard JEL arrangement AFAIK on the cathode. You also simultaneously add a 220k (270k in my case) resistor across the Gain pot to keep it tight and not too out-of-control. But that part of the switch doesn't affect the Lo Gain input, the cathode stuff still works in plexi mode.
If you listen to some of the JEL clips you can hear the brightness, I went back and listened after I first built it but before I added the extra 1n snubber. Sometimes that stuff doesn't come across at first in clips, especially ones designed to make it sound good. That snubber was really the ticket in this particular amp. I might be using that term wrong but it's in parallel with the 270k in the Gain switch so it goes straight from Gain input terminal to ground when engaged. It's necessary in this amp to keep both modes compatible wrt to tone and top end and it just sounds better.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
And a quick clip. I start in 2203+ mode then kick on the SD1 then turn the SD1 OFF and pull the Gain switch for 2203++ mode then kick on the SD1 there then a quick noise floor demo. Jalen Fair Warning bridge pickup.
RedPlated
Well-known member
Great job man sounds fantastic.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
I missed this somehow. Thanks for the tips! I do have 2n2 first but they are just laid out reversed. The Hi Gain input jack goes to V1b, then to the 2n2 cap then to the 470k//560p then to the Gain control. It was only too bright when I pulled the Gain switch, regular JEL mode sounded great.
RedPlated
Well-known member
PI @ 320vdc is a nice setting. Depending on the amount of gain in the amp a little higher can be better. 320-340 is a good range.
I like the first plate to have lower voltage than 250vdc. Is there a stock 100k plate R in there now? Bumping that to 220k or higher may help with feel, compression, and top end response.
I like the first plate to have lower voltage than 250vdc. Is there a stock 100k plate R in there now? Bumping that to 220k or higher may help with feel, compression, and top end response.
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harddriver
Well-known member
Sounds great Spider! It growls like a beast!!!!!!!
And it's very Jakey,you have to be happy with the results! I think it sound better than the Friedman smallbox that Jake was playing live when I saw him in 2019 which was a little mushy. I'm not hearing any mush at all... awesome!I love the crunchiness of it! I know Friedman likes the electrolytic .68uf bypass caps but I think they smooth things out too much for my tastes, those Generic Polyester .68uf caps are crunchy as hell! Love the way they sound in you clip!
So since you are using the DPDT switch I am assume it is similar to like when you use a DPDT switch on a Split/Shared cathode selector switch so you have two modes with this? The 10K cathode cold clipper and then the 3.3K/.68uf cathode correct. So you have separate gian controls for each cathode value? Are you still running an 820ohm on V2A cathode? Are you bypassing V2A with a .68uf capacitor?
So when you pull the DPDT switch is it shunting the 10K to ground with the 3.3K/.68uf cathode which gets you close to a 2.7K/.68uf value, that's what it look like to me form the pics?
I think you could make V1A footswitchable it you are interested PM me but if you are happy with the push pull carry on.
What's the resistor value that's bleeding some gain to ground where you have installed your 1nf/1000pf) snubber?
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SpiderWars
Well-known member
Thanks! Yeah it's pretty tight especially with the SD1.Sounds great Spider! It growls like a beast!!!!!!!
I love the crunchiness of it! I know Friedman likes the electrolytic .68uf bypass caps but I think they smooth things out too much for my tastes, those Generic Polyester .68uf caps are crunchy as hell! Love the way they sound in you clip!
So since you are using the DPDT switch I am assume it is similar to like when you use a DPDT switch on a Split/Shared cathode selector switch so you have two modes with this? The 10K cathode cold clipper and then the 3.3K/.68uf cathode correct. So you have separate gian controls for each cathode value? Are you still running an 820ohm on V2A cathode? Are you bypassing V2A with a .68uf capacitor?
So when you pull the DPDT switch is it shunting the 10K to ground with the 3.3K/.68uf cathode which gets you close to a 2.7K/.68uf value, that's what it look like to me form the pics?
I think you could make V1A footswitchable it you are interested PM me but if you are happy with the push pull carry on.
What's the resistor value that's bleeding some gain to ground where you have installed your 1nf/1000pf) snubber?
The 10k is always in circuit, the switch adds the 3k3//.68u in parallel with that to yield about 2k5//.68. So pretty close to the typ 2k7//.68u. There are a total of two gain controls but it's just one control for each input jack (after the stage after each jack). So the plexi Gain control is always active in all modes. The JEL uses a 22uF fat cap on the V2 820 but I'm using 5uF, always in circuit. The resistor in parallel with the 1n snubber is 270k (220k in the JEL).
Those poly .68s I have in there I bought from Randall Aiken probably 20 years ago. I have a pair of Synergy .68s but they're huge and I already had one of the Aiken ones in there. I thought I had a couple of Nichicon elytics but if I do I can't find them.
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nico22
Member
You can Try small limiting res from cathode 680n caps to ground to émulate electrolityc
SpiderWars
Well-known member
What does 'small limiting res' mean nico?
And I just checked my voltages and they look good, 324vdc at PI supply and 275vdc at V1 supply and that's with the 10k cathode resistor on V1a. I like it as is but I'd like to learn more about the elytic vs poly difference.
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harddriver
Well-known member
Dave Friedman seems to prefer using the .68uf electrolytic cap on the cathodes in his BE100 amps. I think he prefers how they sound versus polyester foil but that was back before the new Synergy polyester foil caps came out. I think they tend to smooth out the tone a little bit to give some of that polished effect to the tone that Dave's amps are known for. For comparison it's kinda like ceramic caps versus silver mica caps IMHO of course.
I bought some of those generic polyester caps from Antique Electronic Supply, I've seen them in some great sounding Cameron modded Marshall mostly in the coupling cap positions but occasionally in the cathode spots. I've mostly seen him use Oranges drops and a few other caps in the cathode positions.
You could try the Nichicon 68uf electrolytic caps(that's the brand Dave uses) to see if you like them but as it stands from that clip those polyester caps sound fantastic for getting that raw crunchy Marshall tone.
So that's a single 270/220K bleeding off gain and not a voltage divider setup then for that gain stage huh? 220K I would think would bleed off alot of gain but it definitely sounds good! Enjoy the amp Spider it sounds like every great 2203 that I have ever heard and them some! Congrats!
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nico22
Member
100 ohm or so in series from caths caps to ground.
What are your power tubes?
What are your power tubes?
SpiderWars
Well-known member
Yeah it's basically making the Gain pot 170k or something like that instead of 1M (which in my amp is effectively 500k due to the extra 1M on the Lo input jack). Doing that reduces gain less than you would think and it does tighten things up for sure. That's why I'm cool with the extra 1M to ground in JEL mode.
Cool thanks. EL34s, these are Mullard reissues.
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harddriver
Well-known member
I just noticed that you a playing the Jalen Fair Warning/Jim Gaustad pickup. Basically it's a 15K JB pickup with asymmetric coils and a rough cast short A-5 magnet.
How do you think it compares to standard JB? I have a Allan Holdsworth JB wind pickup made to Jakes specs and wound by MJ at Seymour Duncan in my Whitey Jake guitar that I built years ago but this Fair Warning pickup is interesting!
How do you think it compares to standard JB? I have a Allan Holdsworth JB wind pickup made to Jakes specs and wound by MJ at Seymour Duncan in my Whitey Jake guitar that I built years ago but this Fair Warning pickup is interesting!
SpiderWars
Well-known member
It seems very different to me. And when I first installed it I forgot that little detail about the 250k Volume pot and was not digging it. I went down to 288k (680k in parallel with 500k pot) and it sounds great there. It has a tone control connected but its almost dimed. It's got a raunchy character for lack of a better word but it dials back nice too. I guess if the JB could have an evil twin this might be it.
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harddriver
Well-known member
Since it's not a super gainy mod does it really need the 470pf mica snubber cap on the V2B cathode resistor? Just curious?
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SpiderWars
Well-known member
No and I don't have it. The schematic I have shows it across the 100k cathode follower cathode resistor but in other Friedman amps I've seen it on that plate resistor. I do have a cap on the 100k cathode resistor but it is only 250pF. I just reused the Treble cap from when it was a SuperBass. I think it was to tame the excessive brightness but I handled that differently. In that recent Tone Talk with Jason Tong Dave mentions how most people are set back a bit by the JEL.