Sweep guys, give me your learning experiences good or bad.

[Digital Jams]

So I have decided to focus about 1/2 my practice time on sweeping so I am trying to avoid doing things wrong from the start. I picked up a basic 2 string 3 note triad exercise that runs up the board and I have learned that you really need a "trigger" to stay sync'd up. I use the down part of my foot to start the progression while the metronome is in the background and it seems to help. Once I have this nailed I am going to move to 3 string triads, I figure this is the best progression? For further information I practice that 2 string progression at around 138-142 bpm now to give you an idea of where I am at.


Give me your experiences please

 

[killertone]

I started with 3 string 4 note triads on the treble strings. The shape that starts on the 5th (G string) then the root (B string) then the 3rd (E string), then the 5th again (E string). I ran that up and down the board shifting the 3rd from major to minor randomly to get the feel for both shapes. Does that make any sense?

 

[Digital Jams]

I started with 3 string 4 note triads on the treble strings. The shape that starts on the 5th (G string) then the root (B string) then the 3rd (E string), then the 5th again (E string). I ran that up and down the board shifting the 3rd from major to minor randomly to get the feel for both shapes. Does that make any sense?

Makes sense and I screw around with that, sounds killer as well going back and forth. I am starting slow because I have a bad habit of running before walking hence the 2 string stuff first.


I should go back to Terry as I know he would whip me into shape in regards to sweeping

 

[Jakem]

I started with 3 string sweeps which mostly were parts of some Yngwie solos. Solos like Liar, Demon Driver, 7th Sign, Never Die, Fire & Ice etc contain some nice progressions. Hell, there are tons of Yngwie songs that contain nice 3 string sweeps! Try and learn muting the strings with your left hand by lifting your finger a bit so that the note chokes and also with your picking hand.

This lick got me seriously started on sweep picking and it helped me a lot:

d= down picking
u= up picking



-----3--2--1--4----1--2--3--2--1--4----1--2--3--finger
E|--------12-17-p-12----------12-17-p-12---------
B|-----13------------13----13-------------13------
G|--14------------------14-------------------14---
D|-------------------------------------------------
A|-------------------------------------------------
E|-------------------------------------------------
......d...d...d..u..........u...d...d...d...u..... .....u...d

 

[Digital Jams]

One problem that I have Jaakko is that my pinkie is flying high after the pull offs, probably from years of bad technic. I have started that exercise and I also do this....

E|--------12-17-p-12----------12-17-p-12---------
B|-----13------------

But take the 17 and move it to 18 and then back to 17, sounds good. Ant has a vid of him doing that exercise I think, freaking sick how in the zone he is with it

 

[Jakem]

One problem that I have Jaakko is that my pinkie is flying high after the pull offs, probably from years of bad technic. I have started that exercise and I also do this....

E|--------12-17-p-12----------12-17-p-12---------
B|-----13------------

But take the 17 and move it to 18 and then back to 17, sounds good. Ant has a vid of him doing that exercise I think, freaking sick how in the zone he is with it

Cool. Yeh, try to keep the movement as little as possible. It makes things easier with sweeping.

Scott, if you wanna see some fingerings on 3 string sweeps, these old vids of mine might help:

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~kemppaja/Digikamera.wmv

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~kemppaja/Thisandthat.wmv

I think there are sweeping parts from Yngwie's Demon Driver and Never Die but I'm not sure. Dunno which vid is which.

 

[killertone]

I started with 3 string 4 note triads on the treble strings. The shape that starts on the 5th (G string) then the root (B string) then the 3rd (E string), then the 5th again (E string). I ran that up and down the board shifting the 3rd from major to minor randomly to get the feel for both shapes. Does that make any sense?

Makes sense and I screw around with that, sounds killer as well going back and forth. I am starting slow because I have a bad habit of running before walking hence the 2 string stuff first.


I should go back to Terry as I know he would whip me into shape in regards to sweeping

That particular shape is nice because you can do it as a sextuplet and get a nice rhythm going with it.

Terry used to freak me out with his sweeping. Dude is unreal.

 

[Digital Jams]

I started with 3 string 4 note triads on the treble strings. The shape that starts on the 5th (G string) then the root (B string) then the 3rd (E string), then the 5th again (E string). I ran that up and down the board shifting the 3rd from major to minor randomly to get the feel for both shapes. Does that make any sense?

Makes sense and I screw around with that, sounds killer as well going back and forth. I am starting slow because I have a bad habit of running before walking hence the 2 string stuff first.


I should go back to Terry as I know he would whip me into shape in regards to sweeping

That particular shape is nice because you can do it as a sextuplet and get a nice rhythm going with it.

Terry used to freak me out with his sweeping. Dude is unreal.

I would watch Terry show me some stuff and I probably looked like a complete dork because I would just stare with this blank expression I was so floored The biggest thing he taught me was that there should be no excuses due to his hand condition, he had to relearn a ton due to it.

I will admit I was way intimidated going there he is so scary.


Vintage Berklee Terry.....

 

[James Lugo]

DJ,

I took lessons from Paul Gilbert in '86 - '87 and he was obsessed with sweep picking and probably about the best on earth at it too. His approach was simple, to try and get every note to sound exactly the same as the note before no matter what finger you use, what stroke (up or down), what string or if you hammer or pull. One sound, tone and feel. Think one. His advice for me when I started was to play a C chord form (5 strings, A string though high E string) starting with the pinky on the 5th fret of the A string (making the first chord actually a D.


DS = down stroke
UP = upstroke

pinky fifth fret A string DS
ring finger 4th fret D string DS
first finger 2nd fret G string DS
middle finger 3rd fret B string DS
first finger 2nd fret E string DS
pinky finger 5th fret E string US
first finger 2nd fret E string DS
middle finger 3rd fret B string US
first finger 2nd fret G string US
ring finger 4th fret D string US
pinky fifth fret A sting US

Play slow with a metronome. Make everything balanced and almost machine like. Play in half steps up and down the fret board 4 hours a day. Increase the metronome speed very slowly, when you feel compelled to speed it up wait, stay slow get the tone right and don't be afraid to dig in, to many guys play the sweeps to light IMO and the sweeps don't speak they just lay there like a stupid trick a kid can't wait to show off at GC. They have to be played with authority, that's what Paul was so good at. I took lessons at his apartment on Cherokee in '86 and he use to practice unplugged all the time and as the elevator door would open I could hear his right hand from the elevator, his front door was a good 20 feet away with the door closed. He knew how to dig in and play like a man!!!!!! None of that pussy sweep picking. You can do it. The key is slow and get it sounding like a machine. Dig in and get the note, don't just glide over it, make it count.

 

[Digital Jams]

DJ,

I took lessons from Paul Gilbert in '86 - '87 and he was obsessed with sweep picking and probably about the best on earth at it too. His approach was simple, to try and get every note to sound exactly the same as the note before no matter what finger you use, what stroke (up or down), what string or if you hammer or pull. One sound, tone and feel. Think one. His advice for me when I started was to play a C chord form (5 strings, A string though high E string) starting with the pinky on the 5th fret of the A string (making the first chord actually a D.


DS = down stroke
UP = upstroke

pinky fifth fret A string DS
ring finger 4th fret D string DS
first finger 2nd fret G string DS
middle finger 3rd fret B string DS
first finger 2nd fret E string DS
pinky finger 5th fret E string US
first finger 2nd fret E string DS
middle finger 3rd fret B string US
first finger 2nd fret G string US
ring finger 4th fret D string US
pinky fifth fret A sting US

Play slow with a metronome. Make everything balanced and almost machine like. Play in half steps up and down the fret board 4 hours a day. Increase the metronome speed very slowly, when you feel compelled to speed it up wait, stay slow get the tone right and don't be afraid to dig in, to many guys play the sweeps to light IMO and the sweeps don't speak they just lay there like a stupid trick a kid can't wait to show off at GC. They have to be played with authority, that's what Paul was so good at. I took lessons at his apartment on Cherokee in '86 and he use to practice unplugged all the time and as the elevator door would open I could hear his right hand from the elevator, his front door was a good 20 feet away with the door closed. He knew how to dig in and play like a man!!!!!! None of that pussy sweep picking. You can do it. The key is slow and get it sounding like a machine. Dig in and get the note, don't just glide over it, make it count.

Thanks James, cool exercise and agree 100% about that pick attack. My old instructure had the same view, avoid that washed out sweep sound and get every note to ring out.

 

[GtrWiz]

Get Sheets of Sound, JaZ is irritating but it's a really good book.

I would watch Terry show me some stuff and I probably looked like a complete dork because I would just stare with this blank expression I was so floored The biggest thing he taught me was that there should be no excuses due to his hand condition, he had to relearn a ton due to it.

I will admit I was way intimidated going there he is so scary.


Vintage Berklee Terry.....

I was at Berklee around this time, and knew Terry a little... What was wrong with his hand?

BTW the drummer in the vid is Joe Travers from Zappa Plays Zappa.

 

[stratotone]

One thing I do to break it up a bit is to sweep pentatonic scales - your two string pattern can be used say in Em here:

15th B string to 12th E string hammer 15th E Pull 12th E rinse/repeat

move the whole shape down a string staying in the E minor shape - G string 14th fret (or 15th!) to B string 12th fret hammer B 15th pull B 12th R/Repeat

Keep going down... when you get good at it, play the one starting on B once, then go to G string, play once, D string, play once, etc. Sounds cool on pentatonics since you're flying and the notes are spaced out a bit.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I found if you have any oil in the garage you better speedy dry that stuff cause it ruins your broom bad.

 

[Digital Jams]

Get Sheets of Sound, JaZ is irritating but it's a really good book.

I would watch Terry show me some stuff and I probably looked like a complete dork because I would just stare with this blank expression I was so floored The biggest thing he taught me was that there should be no excuses due to his hand condition, he had to relearn a ton due to it.

I will admit I was way intimidated going there he is so scary.


Vintage Berklee Terry.....

I was at Berklee around this time, and knew Terry a little... What was wrong with his hand?

BTW the drummer in the vid is Joe Travers from Zappa Plays Zappa.

What he said,

a degenerative condition in my hand called focal dystonia. It gradually robs me of the use of my left hand and i'd like to make as much music as i can and get it out there as i'm not sure what i'll be able to still do, year to year.

 

[Sick Michael]

The Frank Gambale book is good, but takes fekkin ages to incorporate it if you've never done that kind of thing before.

I think the most important thing is to learn it with the intention to blend it effectively in with the rest of your playing. The world does not need one more moron with isolated sweep disease.

I learnt the standard Yngwie/Gilbert stuff then just adapted it to different areas on the fretboard. I dig the full width sweep and then right hand tap/slide combo.

Again, like the other stuff, think relaxation and economy of effort...

 

[Digital Jams]

One thing I do to break it up a bit is to sweep pentatonic scales - your two string pattern can be used say in Em here:

15th B string to 12th E string hammer 15th E Pull 12th E rinse/repeat

move the whole shape down a string staying in the E minor shape - G string 14th fret (or 15th!) to B string 12th fret hammer B 15th pull B 12th R/Repeat

Keep going down... when you get good at it, play the one starting on B once, then go to G string, play once, D string, play once, etc. Sounds cool on pentatonics since you're flying and the notes are spaced out a bit.

Very cool idea, thanks Pete

Have to run now as I think Danyeo's fancy Lexus SUV has a leaky main seal..........

 

[70strathead]

my two cents..


My Good Experiences

1.) Efficient/effective practicing...pick a cool ( musical) chord progression to study around so that not only are u improving the technique side but musical theory as well. its way funner than just picking one key pattern stuff. IMO..here's a common one to start Gmin Cmin F Bb Eb Cmin D sus D ...I used the Hammer on part in "Eruption" as a two/three string arp exercise , totally different sound.. The Yngwie two/three string arpeggio's are great too. there's a ton of them and they're like mini-compositions.

2.) play slowly, listen carefully ( record yourself ), clean tone, note consistency, choose a technique that sounds right and are comfortable with...experiment your ass off.

3.) Meter/phrasing/tone - Metronome is your best friend ...accenting on the choice notes, i like to go for where I can achieve the tone Im hearing in my head.. neck/fingering.

4.) Control/Right hand palm muting and minimze left hand finger. when you kick in distortion u dont want it to sound like a mess.

My Bad Experiences .

1.) Rushing and not being relaxed...the metronome and a good red wine should do the trick ive learned to be more patient

2.) Pullin off stuff you just cant do earlier on..i fell victum to this.

3.) too much information and approaches. it can get overwhelming with so many different ways to approach Arpeggio's and it can throw u off ..find your home ; )

4.) Ear training/art of listening...if u can't hum it in your head and feel it, the results probably wont be what u want. i was terrible at this until i became obsessed with transcribing. it opened up all doors.


good luck

A : )

 

[Digital Jams]

Thanks Ant, very cool advice.

 

[GtrWiz]

Get Sheets of Sound, JaZ is irritating but it's a really good book.

I would watch Terry show me some stuff and I probably looked like a complete dork because I would just stare with this blank expression I was so floored The biggest thing he taught me was that there should be no excuses due to his hand condition, he had to relearn a ton due to it.

I will admit I was way intimidated going there he is so scary.


Vintage Berklee Terry.....

I was at Berklee around this time, and knew Terry a little... What was wrong with his hand?

BTW the drummer in the vid is Joe Travers from Zappa Plays Zappa.

What he said,

a degenerative condition in my hand called focal dystonia. It gradually robs me of the use of my left hand and i'd like to make as much music as i can and get it out there as i'm not sure what i'll be able to still do, year to year.

damn, that's my worst nightmare. mojo sent!

 

[Drkorey]

nice tips guys thnx