SYN-1 tube question for tech types

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fek

fek

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For context, my tube rolling and rabbit hole diving days are over. However, would the tube in the SYN-1 be considered V1?

Completely happy with my SYN-1, but I do remember hearing pretty significant results rolling tubes in the V1 spot on many amps in the past. Just don't remember reading if the V1 spot is in the SYN-1 or the module.
 
fek said:
For context, my tube rolling and rabbit hole diving days are over. However, would the tube in the SYN-1 be considered V1?

Completely happy with my SYN-1, but I do remember hearing pretty significant results rolling tubes in the V1 spot on many amps in the past. Just don't remember reading if the V1 spot is in the SYN-1 or the module.
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Edit: disregard
 
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ibzprestige said:
That’s the phase inverter (v3 in a Marshall jcm 800 for example). You’d get more difference out of swapping the tubes in the actual module.
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It`s actually as Shask stated. Half of V1 is used as the input gain stage, V2 and V3 are in the modules. The signal then goes in the return of the amp using the PI and poweramp of the actual amp
 
BesaMoogie said:
It`s actually as Shask stated. Half of V1 is used as the input gain stage, V2 and V3 are in the modules. The signal then goes in the return of the amp using the PI and poweramp of the actual amp
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My bad, that’s right.
 
Yeah, V1 is the tube in the dock.

Synergy's innovation is that the dock has three cathode bypass values (loosely Fender, Marshall, Mesa/Soldano), and the module tells the dock which of the three to use.

Prior modular preamps like Randall and Egnator had a fixed cathode bypass value (I think the "Fender" value) that all modules were stuck with.
 
If they can put one tube outside each module, why can’t they put all three tubes in the SYN1 and SYN2, and just make modules to be collections of the components and routings That shape the signals from the tubes into what they are on the real preamps?

It would probably make the modules less expensive at least. And I bet they could even use the extra room in each module to do custom circuitry for V1 so it wouldn’t be limited to three standard synergy choices.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
If they can put one tube outside each module, why can’t they put all three tubes in the SYN1 and SYN2, and just make modules to be collections of the components and routings That shape the signals from the tubes into what they are on the real preamps?

It would probably make the modules less expensive at least. And I bet they could even use the extra room in each module to do custom circuitry for V1 so it wouldn’t be limited to three standard synergy choices.
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If the tone stack is on the module but the tubes are on the dock you are going to have reroute the actual audio signal on and off the board multiple times, increase the length of PCB runs of multiple signals, switch signals to individual tubes between modules on channel changes for the more than 1 module docks at multiple points, lose compatibility with MTS and existing modules, etc.

Total non-starter and not worth the effort. They're far too intertwined, the tubes are not just general resources.

The first one is wired to the input and synergy had to compromise the input to being wired one of three 'typical' preconfigured ways with that cathode select switch because of that design choice and that is just a single stage (used the other half as a buffer, IIRC). It'd be a much bigger mess if you tried doing every tube outside the module. Having the tubes be self-contained on the module is useful. You can select different tubes for each module etc.
 
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Elric said:
If the tone stack is on the module but the tubes are on the dock you are going to have reroute the actual audio signal on and off the board multiple times, increase the length of PCB runs of multiple signals, switch signals to individual tubes between modules on channel changes for the more than 1 module docks at multiple points, lose compatibility with MTS and existing modules, etc.

Total non-starter and not worth the effort. They're far too intertwined, the tubes are not just general resources.

The first one is wired to the input and synergy had to compromise the input to being wired one of three 'typical' preconfigured ways with that cathode select switch because of that design choice and that is just a single stage (used the other half as a buffer, IIRC). It'd be a much bigger mess if you tried doing every tube outside the module. Having the tubes be self-contained on the module is useful. You can select different tubes for each module etc.
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I think all the extra routing required to keep the tubes in the dock would increase the noise like crazy.
 
BesaMoogie said:
It`s actually as Shask stated. Half of V1 is used as the input gain stage, V2 and V3 are in the modules. The signal then goes in the return of the amp using the PI and poweramp of the actual amp
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Do the newer modules like the z-wreck have a third 12ax7 for the post phase inverter/power section that supposed to mimic the original circuit more accurately? I’ve never looked in one but this module is on my curiosity list.
 
Subyrocket said:
Do the newer modules like the z-wreck have a third 12ax7 for the post phase inverter/power section that supposed to mimic the original circuit more accurately? I’ve never looked in one but this module is on my curiosity list.
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No, it has only two tubes like all modules. Maybe one of the tubes is used to mimik the effect of the PI.

In mid-gain modules, not every gainstage of the two tubes is used. This would leave you with additional gainstages to be possibly used them for other functions.

From the Synergy site:
„This is Synergy's first module with an integrated, 0-watt power amplifier, complete with a phase inverter and onboard transformer“
 
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