Tell me about 5150-III stealth vs. 5150-III EL34

[romanianreaper]

So I have the 5150-III EL-34S combo and I was curious how it would compare with the 50 watt stealth? Here is what I'm wondering about primarily:

- How are the cleans, identical?
- For "classic" rock tones, which sounds better?
- Are the blue channels different?

On my amp, the amp seems really gainy/heavy even at the 8 o'clock position. I know these amps have a tone of gain but crazy it is not more gradual around the dial.

Any other things that I didnt include, I'd be curious about. I just don't want to play Mastadon, etc type riffs and hoping thr stealth covers a bit of everything. Thanks!

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Disclaimer: these videos compare the heads only. Not sure about the differences between the heads and combo versions of the amps.

The last video compares the standard v2 6L6 50w (concentric pots) head but trust me, the v2 6L6 50w is so close to the Stealth 50w that it makes no difference. I own the v2 6L6 and compared it to two different Stealth 50w amps in my own studio environment for about two weeks and my conclusion was that even though I *wanted* to like the Stealth 50w more (because it looks cooler) is that the amps are so close that it literally doesn't matter. I couldn't tell them apart in clips I recorded on my own gear and played back for myself, other than when they were set to some extreme settings, like when the gain on the Blue channels were set at 1 out of 10, for example.

 

[Cap217]

I don’t understand the differences. I also don’t understand how the 100 is so much more than the 50. What’s going on there?

 

[Techdeth]

I don’t understand the differences. I also don’t understand how the 100 is so much more than the 50. What’s going on there?

The 100 definitely opens up more . I like the extra head roam . It’s a little less compressed than the 50 . My take atkest. It stays less compressed at louder volumes

 

[VESmedic]

The 100 watt el34 5153 is absolutely insane, the best incarnation of that amp to me. Phenomenal amp. Not really able to compare it to the 5153 50 watt el34, much different sounding amp. the 2nd channel specifically, has absolutely zero of the problems the 50 watt El34 does.

 

[romanianreaper]

The 100 watt el34 5153 is absolutely insane, the best incarnation of that amp to me. Phenomenal amp. Not really able to compare it to the 5153 50 watt el34, much different sounding amp. the 2nd channel specifically, has absolutely zero of the problems the 50 watt El34 does.

What problems are you talking about?

 

[napalmdeath]

What problems are you talking about?

Farty, squishy low end.

 

[Shask]

The 6L6 50W head has probably the most 'Marshall' sounding Blue channel. It is really easy to get those 80's style Marshall sounds on that particular version.

 

[Techdeth]

100 watt stealth 6l6 is my favorite. Use channel 3 for brutal riffs . It’s monstrous and not just for the leads

 

[TheToneDig]

People who bought the amp complained they weren't getting EVH tones from it, so you got the EL34 version to help move it a little more in that direction. Basically, they should have bought a Plexi instead.

Designed as a high gain amp that didn't need boosting, works well for down-tuning, death metal/alt metal tones, the 6L6 was the obvious choice as that is where 90s death metal went after Marshall Valvestate. Things started going back to EL34 a few years ago which is why more high-gain amps have EL34s in them and the Stealth does that. It works for people who want that mid-range bark through EL34 power tube tones.

If I wanted an EL34 amp I wouldn't be looking for an EVH 5150III. If I was in the market for 6L6 high gain, then EVH 5150III is on the list as long as the songs I am doing work with that mid-range bark. That's it. Gojira etc. The green channel is what I would use for distortion pedals that emulate 6L6 amps. It works best IMO for those types of pedals but other than that if you are in the market for clean headroom 6L6s/EL34s you should look elsewhere.

As for the 50W being gig ready. Yes it very much is and the green channel is even gig-ready at 50W despite not having the same headroom as the 100W head. As long as it's in the hands of someone who understands their tech.

Buckethead, green channel EVH 5150III 50W. Yeah, as a pedal taker.

1 Hour 30 min of 50W killing it.

Siege Engine comes in at 29 min and Soothsayer! at 1hr 13 min.

 

[TheToneDig]

The 6L6 50W head has probably the most 'Marshall' sounding Blue channel. It is really easy to get those 80's style Marshall sounds on that particular version.

Lambchoppers has done the best work in finding versatility out of the 5150III 50W, IMO.

He was able to get Metallica-ish tones from the red channel near the end.

I use a Maxon 808 boosting the blue channel for a sort of 2.5 channel on the amp, lol.

 

[TheToneDig]

Farty, squishy low end.

Let's say it sounds like a dying cat. In a mix, or in live situations, where that sort of tighter low-end is going to be part of a high-gain metal song, is it going to out-compete the drummer and bass player for low-end?

Here is another way of looking at it. What difference will the bass going through 0-10 make? I think it is not uncommon for many high-gain metal guitarists to have the bass on 0 for both mixes and live or even if they don't, the sound engineer will likely be cutting it, if not yourself using a frown shape EQ to get the sort of mid-range tone death metal is known for.

So really 100W for low-end is pretty specialized when you think about it. The answer to all that in modern metal is 7 or 8 string guitars and playing like you are Meshuggah chugging (don't know why it's called Djent) out like you are on a baritone and as it happens their amp setup is a whole other world away from tubes, wattages, and analog systems. Like Gojira, they are using IRs and FRFR. Gojira use the 100W EVH5150III through a Two Notes Torpedo Live 2x12 Eddie cab. 6 string humbucker telecaster. Meshuggah are the 7+ string guitars, playing the top two strings and profiles on Axe-FX from what I remember. Have heard both live more than once. Arguably the heaviest and loudest bands at the festivals both doing cab sims. Hmmmm...

On the other end of the spectrum of alt-metal, you have Friedman/Orange and Mastodon doing a whole other thing all-analog tubes and cabs. I have heard them three times. They are very loud also. Different playing styles.

Anyway, the point is, the practical use of electric guitar low-end frequencies in high-gain songs in band mixes seems not to rate highly on the issues for consideration in mixes due to competitive issues. Seems more of something the first few rows in a gig might experience before the stage monitors wash that out or something you will get playing by yourself in the basement/barn through a 4x12. Outside of that, it seems they get cut.

 

[baron55]

People who bought the amp complained they weren't getting EVH tones from it, so you got the EL34 version to help move it a little more in that direction. Basically, they should have bought a Plexi instead.

Designed as a high gain amp that didn't need boosting, works well for down-tuning, death metal/alt metal tones, the 6L6 was the obvious choice as that is where 90s death metal went after Marshall Valvestate. Things started going back to EL34 a few years ago which is why more high-gain amps have EL34s in them and the Stealth does that. It works for people who want that mid-range bark through EL34 power tube tones.

If I wanted an EL34 amp I wouldn't be looking for an EVH 5150III. If I was in the market for 6L6 high gain, then EVH 5150III is on the list as long as the songs I am doing work with that mid-range bark. That's it. Gojira etc. The green channel is what I would use for distortion pedals that emulate 6L6 amps. It works best IMO for those types of pedals but other than that if you are in the market for clean headroom 6L6s/EL34s you should look elsewhere.

As for the 50W being gig ready. Yes it very much is and the green channel is even gig-ready at 50W despite not having the same headroom as the 100W head. As long as it's in the hands of someone who understands their tech.

Buckethead, green channel EVH 5150III 50W. Yeah, as a pedal taker.

1 Hour 30 min of 50W killing it.

Siege Engine comes in at 29 min and Soothsayer! at 1hr 13 min.

Yet EVH never used EL34 based Marshalls, they were all equipped with Sylvania 6CA7's which were beam tetrodes and were basically a supercharged 6L6. And all his signature amps were and are 6L6.


6CA7's and EL34 are confused quite a bit because they use the same bias range and have similar plate resistances. But the US made Sylvania 6CA7's had nothing at all in common with the EL34. What is confusing, is many EL34's are also labeled as 6Ca7's.

 

[TheToneDig]

Yet EVH never used EL34 based Marshalls, they were all equipped with Sylvania 6CA7's which were beam tetrodes and were basically a supercharged 6L6. And all his signature amps were and are 6L6.


6CA7's and EL34 are confused quite a bit because they use the same bias range and have similar plate resistances. But the US made Sylvania 6CA7's had nothing at all in common with the EL34. What is confusing, is many EL34's are also labeled as 6Ca7's.

Probably what matters more is the Plexi circuit which doesn't have the 5150III's mid-range bark and Eddie's use of a VARIAC to get the brown sound.

Some say the EVH5150III was inspired by Soldano.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

@TheToneDig the “farty, squishy low end” of the EVH 50w EL34 vs EVH 50w 6L6 has NOTHING to do with watts. The Blue channel of the 50w EL34 amp has more bass routed into the gain stages of the preamp than the Blue channel of the 50w 6L6 amp, so it sounds flubby and mushier by comparison. People have remedied this by clipping one of the legs of the C137 component on the 50w EL34’s board to send that extra pre-distortion bass to ground which resolves the issue.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. You come into multiple threads and start droning on and on about your ideas about “low end” in general concerning 100w amps with the ulterior motive of pushing low watt amps and selling your moronic book on Amazon, when the thread is about the difference between two very specific 50w amps. Have you compared them? Have you even played either one of them? No? Then shut up. Stop spamming every thread with your dumb non-sequitur misinformation bullshit.

 

[TheToneDig]

@TheToneDig the “farty, squishy low end” of the EVH 50w EL34 vs EVH 50w 6L6 has NOTHING to do with watts. The Blue channel of the 50w EL34 amp has more bass routed into the gain stages of the preamp than the Blue channel of the 50w 6L6 amp, so it sounds flubby and mushier by comparison. People have remedied this by clipping one of the legs of the C137 component on the 50w EL34’s board to send that extra pre-distortion bass to ground which resolves the issue.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. You come into multiple threads and start droning on and on about your ideas about “low end” in general concerning 100w amps with the ulterior motive of pushing low watt amps and selling your moronic book on Amazon, when the thread is about the difference between two very specific 50w amps. Have you compared them? Have you even played either one of them? No? Then shut up. Stop spamming every thread with your dumb non-sequitur misinformation bullshit.

I have 100W amps in my book. I have them hooked up to everything including speakers, loadboxes, attenuators, and other systems. So whoever told you my book is all about low-wattage amps is simply lying. I mean when there is a 100W JVM Half-stack on the cover that might just be a little bit of an indicator that the book has larger-sized heads in it. What it does is help people who buy large wattage heads deal with them in small spaces. That's it. No need to misrepresent my position or claims to start a flame war. If you want to claim I said something wrong then back it up with quotes and I'll address it or else I just usually stick people on ignore for low-effort lies and that's me done with them and their strawman up in flames.

Second of all, this idea only 10 people on here have ever used 100W heads and can lecture everyone else on them who have no idea what they are talking about has a very narrow view of the sheer scale of electric guitarists out there on the internet. Do you really honestly believe that no one except a few people can spend a few grand on big heads and use them? I don't get how some people can even begin to think that's real.

There was lockdown. I wrote a book about guitar rigs and small spaces. Some people make that into such a big deal for unknown reasons. Fine. Do better then. It won't stop me.

Thirdly, you are very wrong about my experiences with EVH 5150III.

You complain about lack of experience (which I have, see below) and then recommend clipping components inside the amp because you just heard someone did.

Rig-talk is in my book in the references for places people can go. So maybe instead of being on a short ignore list of people who think ad-hominems are arguments, you can actually reference your claims and go read stuff before you comment on it, especially if your goal is to flame something other than your own pants which end up on fire with the strawman.

 

[cragginshred77]

If the context is VH tones the EVH amps have-
Too much gain and compression for any string clarity for me. Try a Slo 30 or 100 at least to hear the open raw gain clarity it offers
The BE deluxe is a plexi with system volume and does a great job too

I do like the first gen 5150 III's less fizz. Just boost the Blue ch with a TS 808 and bam! Listen to Steel panther's 1st few albums as a reference to the best 80's tone ever!

These are really fun to play thru

see if you can hear what I am talking about with open, gain articulation here that does not exist in the EVH line (had em all)
*Not trying to impress anyone with my playing, my vids are only to take us beyond trying to describe tone with words

 

[The One]

People who bought the amp complained they weren't getting EVH tones from it, so you got the EL34 version to help move it a little more in that direction. Basically, they should have bought a Plexi instead.

Designed as a high gain amp that didn't need boosting, works well for down-tuning, death metal/alt metal tones, the 6L6 was the obvious choice as that is where 90s death metal went after Marshall Valvestate. Things started going back to EL34 a few years ago which is why more high-gain amps have EL34s in them and the Stealth does that. It works for people who want that mid-range bark through EL34 power tube tones.

If I wanted an EL34 amp I wouldn't be looking for an EVH 5150III. If I was in the market for 6L6 high gain, then EVH 5150III is on the list as long as the songs I am doing work with that mid-range bark. That's it. Gojira etc. The green channel is what I would use for distortion pedals that emulate 6L6 amps. It works best IMO for those types of pedals but other than that if you are in the market for clean headroom 6L6s/EL34s you should look elsewhere.

As for the 50W being gig ready. Yes it very much is and the green channel is even gig-ready at 50W despite not having the same headroom as the 100W head. As long as it's in the hands of someone who understands their tech.

Buckethead, green channel EVH 5150III 50W. Yeah, as a pedal taker.

1 Hour 30 min of 50W killing it.

Siege Engine comes in at 29 min and Soothsayer! at 1hr 13 min.

You Realize there were Maybe 2 Bands in the 90's that used the Valvestate for Death Metal other than the band Death that is. It feels as if every post you make are exceprts from your book & are simply to hear(read) your self talk. The OP Asked specific questions & probably would like a simple answer rather than a longwinded excerpt from your book. Look at VES Medics Post. While i like to troll VES Medic from time to time, he's a great player in my book & a great recording engineer. Be more like him & K.I.S.S.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

People who bought the amp complained they weren't getting EVH tones from it, so you got the EL34 version to help move it a little more in that direction. Basically, they should have bought a Plexi instead.

Designed as a high gain amp that didn't need boosting, works well for down-tuning, death metal/alt metal tones, the 6L6 was the obvious choice as that is where 90s death metal went after Marshall Valvestate. Things started going back to EL34 a few years ago which is why more high-gain amps have EL34s in them and the Stealth does that. It works for people who want that mid-range bark through EL34 power tube tones.

If I wanted an EL34 amp I wouldn't be looking for an EVH 5150III. If I was in the market for 6L6 high gain, then EVH 5150III is on the list as long as the songs I am doing work with that mid-range bark. That's it. Gojira etc. The green channel is what I would use for distortion pedals that emulate 6L6 amps. It works best IMO for those types of pedals but other than that if you are in the market for clean headroom 6L6s/EL34s you should look elsewhere.

As for the 50W being gig ready. Yes it very much is and the green channel is even gig-ready at 50W despite not having the same headroom as the 100W head. As long as it's in the hands of someone who understands their tech.

Buckethead, green channel EVH 5150III 50W. Yeah, as a pedal taker.

1 Hour 30 min of 50W killing it.

Siege Engine comes in at 29 min and Soothsayer! at 1hr 13 min.

@TheToneDig the “farty, squishy low end” of the EVH 50w EL34 vs EVH 50w 6L6 has NOTHING to do with watts. The Blue channel of the 50w EL34 amp has more bass routed into the gain stages of the preamp than the Blue channel of the 50w 6L6 amp, so it sounds flubby and mushier by comparison. People have remedied this by clipping one of the legs of the C137 component on the 50w EL34’s board to send that extra pre-distortion bass to ground which resolves the issue.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. You come into multiple threads and start droning on and on about your ideas about “low end” in general concerning 100w amps with the ulterior motive of pushing low watt amps and selling your moronic book on Amazon, when the thread is about the difference between two very specific 50w amps. Have you compared them? Have you even played either one of them? No? Then shut up. Stop spamming every thread with your dumb non-sequitur misinformation bullshit.

Agreed GG!

I have never ever seen someone talk so much and say so little…
It’s almost like he’s trying to prove something, but I can’t be sure what that is… Maybe like he is some authority on guitar tones?
It’s getting to the point where I’m almost embarrassed for him whenever he posts.

 

[TheToneDig]

You Realize there were Maybe 2 Bands in the 90's that used the Valvestate for Death Metal other than the band Death that is. It feels as if every post you make are exceprts from your book & are simply to hear(read) your self talk. The OP Asked specific questions & probably would like a simple answer rather than a longwinded excerpt from your book. Look at VES Medics Post. While i like to troll VES Medic from time to time, he's a great player in my book & a great recording engineer. Be more like him & K.I.S.S.

Gojira has its origins in Valvestate. Meshuggah used them. Fear Factory. Static-X. Ihsahn. HIM. Prong. Quite a few more. Valvestate was the early days of Marshall doing Death and then they went with 6L6s on other amps as I said. So yeah, not a lot of death metal bands used them after that.

My replies aren't book excerpts. I have experience with 5150IIIs. I own one myself.

Plenty of great studio engineers out there I follow and respect. However, none of them ever started making up stuff they can't quote or began to call me names and make ad hominem attacks over strawman arguments they propagate over multiple threads. So I just ignore them and chalk it down to the usual rig-talk trolling/flaming that has gone on here for years now. I hit the add ignore button and am missing nothing.

No one person has any advantages over another here on tone. Never did. Never will. No matter who tries to play my dad is bigger than your dad, in the mix, to be able to claim you can determine wattage is a big claim. Then again those same will people tell you they can tell the differences between all profiles and the real deal in a mix. Those people aren't me. I find no reason to resort to ad-hominem attacks just because someone might disagree with me there. If I did that over the internet with someone I never met just because they wrote a book I would probably throw out whatever gym supplements are making me crazy.

If you are going to flame someone, at least have quotes and references and actually things to complain about.

BTW, I changed my mind over the past few years by listening to people point out the very problems I am recounting and you know what? They were right. I am not superhuman in my hearing enough to determine what the guitar wattage is in mix. I can't even determine if it's a profile or not. If this is anathema to some, then fine. If not, then you will enjoy my view of things as plenty of competent sound engineers, not to mention amp makers also do. They are apparently in some sort of a conspiracy to lie to us all about what they're less than 100W can do. That's literally the excuse I have been given along with "fuck you stupid bitch". So yeah, that's an easy ignore and low-effort post. There is nothing to respect there, nor good information to glean.