CECamps":3qipu45h said:
Wow, just saw this.
FWIW, I don't have anything against anyone who disagreed with me in that thread. I know how discussions can get in forums, and debating differences of opinion is actually IMHO one of the things I enjoy most about them.
Steve and Rob may have seemed to be ganging up on me, along with some other folks but honestly it was just a bunch of dudes debating differences of opinion. It's all good. In the context of public posts in that thread, I was obviously in the minority.
I think the
impassioned opposition to what I was saying stemmed from the countless nightmare stories we've all heard about where people put money down, wait for ages, and get screwed in the end--and wasn't necessarily intended to be an attack on me personally. I don't blame people for getting pissed about that, and I can totally understand how easy it must have been to channel that pissed off-ness toward me in that thread. But like I said, it's all good.
Steve and I definitely have way different approaches to design, SCM, and payment policy. In all truth though, neither is right or wrong outside of the context of our businesses. I think he has a great looking product and I hope his venture works out for him.
I guess what I'm saying is that IMO, it's OK for people to have opinions on forums regardless of whether or not they align with my own--and it's OK if they argue passionately with me or anyone else about them in a thread. Essentially, it's one of the things that makes the world go 'round.
Craig,
I'm really glad you came into this thread and responded. I really enjoyed our discussion in that old thread, regardless of how it's been interpreted here.
As I said in the previous thread, I really appreciate your level-headed ability to debate an issue, and regardless of our opinions, I have a lot of respect for what you are doing because I've experienced some of it as well now as I'm getting started...
My responses in that thread were more driven as a consumer than as a business owner, although it may have seemed the opposite. I've had some really bad experiences with custom guitar and amp builders where I've been flat out lied to multiple times, been cut out of communication and in some cases never received my gear and had to go through massive gyrations (including driving over two hundred miles to a guy's house) to get my money back when I was fed up. I've always been reasonable in expectations and was given countless excuses as delivery timeframes were exceeded again and again. This is not just isolated incidents, but a repeated problem for me. That is the reason I'm so adamant against not taking money up front for standard products (I certainly understand for custom, "one off" work).
Although, I felt for the most part we were just having an interesting, impassioned discussion, I do think I may have gone a bit far with some of my sarcastic comments and I think it is really cool that you don't harbor any ill will over it. As you say, it is just the way things go on forum discussion sometimes. I don't think that people were supporting my point because of some kind of clique-ish behavior as DarrenX thinks - I just think some others, fed up with some dubious business practices, were venting in the same way I was. Of course, you've already alluded to all this in your post and I'm sure you are correct.
One thing I will say is that DarrenX has taught me an important lesson with his responses here. As soon as I became a business owner in a guitar related business, my ability to have these kind of discussions ended. The truth of the matter is, that no matter how well intentioned, having opinionated, passionate disagreements (as interesting as they may be) in public forums is going to sour some on you and your business. I've watched countless builders implode on these forums, never to be heard from again, usually defending their products or business practices. In the end, they leave the forums with their tails between their legs and people bash them endlessly afterword even though they weren't even members when the original discussions occurred. I thought it would be different for me because I wouldn't do that sort of thing, but no matter what I think I'm doing, all that really matters is the interpretation of others, even the minority here like DarrenX. You can see in how he lashed out at my sharing my forays into the amp business here, how negatively he feels towards myself and my business, when he doesn't even know me. Regardless of whether I think he's misinterpreted me, the bottom line is, he's right, I shouldn't be having these types of discussions, especially with other builders, because all it takes is a few people who interpret the discussion like he did, to start a negative campaign against me and my business. So... I will be staying out of controversial topics around music-related businesses from now on regardless of my experiences as a consumer. Actually, I'll probably refrain from giving my opinions on any controversial topics, although for the most part I do that anyway...
I enjoy being here, sharing clips and talking with many long time forum friends. I want to stay around regardless of the fact that I am starting a related business. Unfortunately, although I enjoy some of the spirited debates we have, I just have to behave in a different way now and I get it. I'm definitely going to stop sharing anything related to my business here as well. If people want to find out about what I'm doing, I've got a website, facebook, twitter, etc. I think it was ok to talk about things here before I was actually selling things, but as I get close to that point, I think that has to end...
I also want to apologize directly to you Craig for anything I said in that thread that upset you. I can certainly see how some of the things I said, even if they were said jokingly, may have been offensive. Even though you appear to have taken things in stride and may not feel it is necessary, I offer it anyway... I don't know you very well, but you seem like a great guy with a well considered approach to your business and my opinions on business models are irrelevant and should have been kept to myself.
Steve
