The punch an amp projects

[MetalHeadMike]

Some posts in another thread about the punch an amp projects, or at least the way we perceive that, made me think of something I've been chasing for years but unable to duplicate.

So the first Wizard I bought (2017 MCII 100w E34L) absolutely floored me in regards to punch & girth, how much air it moved, how percussive it was. It hit so hard I honestly could not believe it. You felt such a percussive force hitting you it was unreal. It gave near the same experience regardless whether playing it in my large basement space with carpet over concrete or up in a second floor bedroom on vinyl flooring over wood subfloor; cab straight on rubber feet, no castors. Sold that amp before leaving that particular house. Other amps I owned/played in that house with the same signal chain also punched hard and sounded huge, but none as near the Wizard...it's beyond words how hard the perceived punch was on the MCII.

Fast forward six years, three houses, 11 Wizards, and many, many amps later...I have not been able to reproduce that same level of punch/girth from any other Wizard, or any other amp for that matter....not even remotely close. Everything in the signal chain is exactly the same except guitar pickup, string gauge, and tuning. I have not tried the pickup (BK Painkiller), Sting gauge (10-54), nor tuning (Drop C) that I used with that first Wizard that gave that experience.

Everything else; cab, speakers, guitar, pedals, cables, picks, is the same. Tried replacing cables and my trusty and old MXR 10 band to see if that had something to do with it (nope). Now the amps have all sounded great over the years and some are obviously harder hitting/bigger sounding than others, but I've not been able to reproduce that unbelievable level of punch, air movement, girth since that amp in that house.

No idea if it was the space, the pickup, the string gauge, or tuning, or the particular combination of a few, or all, but the difference is staggering and it's the reason I've bought/sold so many Wizards trying to replicate that experience. Even the KT150 MCII I had did not produce anywhere near that experience.

Again, all the Wizards and dozens & dozens of amps I've flipped the last six years have for the most part been great, but not even remotely close to that first Wizard in that house with that signal chain. It literally punched you to the core like a shockwave.

 

[nightlight]

Some posts in another thread about the punch an amp projects, or at least the way we perceive that, made me think of recent something I've been chasing for years but unable to duplicate.

So the first Wizard I bought (2017 MCII 100w E34L) absolutely floored me in regards to punch & girth, how much air it moved, how percussive it was. It hit so hard I honestly could not believe it. You felt such a percussive force hitting you it was unreal. It gave near the same experience regardless whether playing it in my large basement space with carpet over concrete or up in a second floor bedroom on vinyl flooring over wood subfloor; cab straight on rubber feet, no castors. Sold that amp before leaving that particular house. Other amps I owned/played in that house with the same signal chain also punched hard and sounded huge, but none as near the Wizard...it's beyond words how hard the perceived punch was on the MCII.

Fast forward six years, three houses, 11 Wizards, and many, many amps later...I have not been able to reproduce that same level of punch/girth from any other Wizard, or any other amp for that matter....not even remotely close. Everything in the signal chain is exactly the same except guitar pickup, string gauge, and tuning. I have not tried the pickup (BK Painkiller), Sting gauge (10-54), nor tuning (Drop C) that I used with that first Wizard that gave that experience.

Everything else, cab, speakers, guitar, pedals, cables, picks, is the same. Tried replacing cables and my trusty and old MXR 10 band to see if that had something to do with it (nope). Now the amps have all sounded great over the years and some are obviously harder hitting/bigger sounding than others, but I've not been able to reproduce that unbelievable level of punch, air movement, girth since that amp in that house.

No idea if it was the space, the pickup, the string gauge, or tuning, or the particular combination of a few, or all, but the difference is staggering and it's the reason I've bought/sold so many Wizards trying to replicate that experience. Even the KT150 MCII I had did not produce anywhere near that experience.

Again, all the Wizards and dozens & dozens of amps I've flipped the last six years have for the most part been great, but not even remotely close to that first Wizard in that house with that signal chain. It literally punched you to the core like a shockwave.

Could it just be nostalgia? Sometimes we remember things more fondly after time passes.

 

[311boogieman]

Could it just be nostalgia? Sometimes we remember things more fondly after time passes.

Good point.

Also, how different are the rooms you are in from that first room.

 

[Racerxrated]

Good point.

Also, how different are the rooms you are in from that first room.

This. Unless the rooms are similar between the houses, the different acoustics between them could be the difference.

Although, the 2010 MC100 I had, both LP6(Martin, who I bought it from) and Glip22(Gary, who owned it before Martin) said that particular MC100 was the biggest sounding Wizard of all the models they owned(multiple).

 

[Meeotch]

Try spending some time moving your cab around your room and playing. Really try as many locations as possible, even out in the middle of the room. Also try changing your position in relation to the cab. My studio space sounds pretty good with all the acoustic treatment I've built, but I still know where the single best spot in the room is, and that's where my number one cab stays.

You can repeat this process with different rooms, but most of us are limited to a single basement or office space.

All that being said, sounds like you may have had a unicorn that got away. Happens to the best of us! Keep the saga rolling and you will find another man!

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Could it just be nostalgia? Sometimes we remember things more fondly after time passes.

Believe me, I've pondered that same question for a long time, but I don't think so honestly.

Good point.

Also, how different are the rooms you are in from that first room.

Well the basement I used to play in the house with that first Wizard was much larger in square footage, but I've played in several houses after with rooms similar size to smaller, carpeted concrete floors to the same vinyl plank over wood subfloor. That said, the house I'm in now does have 9ft ceilings vs 8ft in that house where I had the experience.

This. Unless the rooms are similar between the houses, the different acoustics between them could be the difference.

Although, the 2010 MC100 I had, both LP6(Martin, who I bought it from) and Glip22(Gary, who owned it before Martin) said that particular MC100 was the biggest sounding Wizard of all the models they owned(multiple).

The rooms between houses is definitely not the same, not worlds apart in my mind, but maybe I've greatly underestimated room acoustics. I thought for a long time it was the particular amp too, hence part the reason I've flipped through so many Wizards. Again, all the Wizards I've flipped, and most all the non-Wizard amps have sounded phenomenal, it's just none have come remotely close to the air movement/push/punch. I remember gushing to you when I got that first Wizard at how I was utterly shocked how much push you felt. It would scramble your brains and not through volume, but percussion.

Try spending some time moving your cab around your room and playing. Really try as many locations as possible, even out in the middle of the room. Also try changing your position in relation to the cab. My studio space sounds pretty good with all the acoustic treatment I've built, but I still know where the single best spot in the room is, and that's where my number one cab stays.

You can repeat this process with different rooms, but most of us are limited to a single basement or office space.

All that being said, sounds like you may have had a unicorn that got away. Happens to the best of us! Keep the saga rolling and you will find another man!

I played that particular amp in that basement in so many places and configurations, and it always punched the way I described. I've moved the cab around this current space a bit and tried 4 different cabs, including the original that I had that experience with years ago, also have tried sitting in various locations relative to the cab. I thought for a long time it must have been that amp, like you said, a unicorn. But honestly at this point I feel it was more the sum of many parts to form the perfect storm. That amp, those spaces in that particular house, that tuning and even string gauge, the particular bridge pup.

I'm honestly done trying to replicate it and to be honest I'm better off because that level of volume and addictive punch is in part what thrashed my hearing and led to permanent tinnitus...that and the last LOG show I saw at Red Rocks some years back...LOL!

 

[Techdeth]

I’ve had a lot of amps and my two wizards punch more than anything. One more than the other .

Could it just be nostalgia? Sometimes we remember things more fondly after time passes.

this has happened to me a few times

 

[Meeotch]

Damn man, I was probably at that same show! Damaging your hearing is one of the most disappointing things that can happen. Luckily my tinnitus is mild but my hyperacusis is the big downer...it was years in the making, but one particular Gojira show really did me in.

You mentioned 11 Wizards lol, what's in your stable now?

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Damn man, I was probably at that same show! Damaging your hearing is one of the most disappointing things that can happen. Luckily my tinnitus is mild but my hyperacusis is the big downer...it was years in the making, but one particular Gojira show really did me in.

You mentioned 11 Wizards lol, what's in your stable now?

What a show that was...loudest concert I've ever been too, stupid loud, but damn. I left my earplugs in the car and was too lazy to leave my seat...stupid!!!

MCII
MC25
SD60
SLO30
MKIII+ blue stripe
KSR Orion

 

[braintheory]

If you come across an amp like that again that you feel is special I’d say just keep it and use it as a side by side benchmark to really know which amp is the true king of air moving punch. For me it’s been so far a 2023 Wizard Hell Razor KT150 I tried the other day and the Megalith Beta next to it (I also own one) has the craziest low end push I’ve heard so far from an amp (sublows especially). Kings of tone and feel would be for me very different amps

 

[the4thlast1]

The BK Painkiller has a deep and punchy lowend , the tuning matters too. It was prob that particular guitar with that setup that made it all come together.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

If you come across an amp like that again that you feel is special I’d say just keep it and use it as a side by side benchmark to really know which amp is the true king of air moving punch. For me it’s been so far a 2023 Wizard Hell Razor KT150 I tried the other day and the Megalith Beta next to it (I also own one) has the craziest low end push I’ve heard so far from an amp (sublows especially). Kings of tone and feel would be for me very different amps

I hear ya, but I do think that particular experience was honestly the sum of many parts to bring it all together. I've had so many amps since then, probably like 40 or more, and never have I felt that percussion, that push of air again.

The BK Painkiller has a deep and punchy lowend , the tuning matters too. It was prob that particular guitar with that setup that made it all come together.

I'm thinking this is why, the sum of all parts made it so. Those heavy gauge strings with drop C, that guitar, that amp, the room. I am planning on putting the PK back in the same guitar which would be the first time since that situation, but I'm not likely changing back to Drop C or the heavier string gauge.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

If you come across an amp like that again that you feel is special I’d say just keep it and use it as a side by side benchmark to really know which amp is the true king of air moving punch. For me it’s been so far a 2023 Wizard Hell Razor KT150 I tried the other day and the Megalith Beta next to it (I also own one) has the craziest low end push I’ve heard so far from an amp (sublows especially). Kings of tone and feel would be for me very different amps

I have come across a couple special amps lately...the SD60 and this MKIII+. Like I mentioned when we chat after I first got the SD60, I liked it but wasn't floored. Well several months in and I'm now floored. It had a bad power tube and once I replaced both, man...what an amp. Never had an amp so aggressive and cutting yet so warm (lacking that sometimes annoying strident/grainy high end a lot of amps get when you dial them to be bright/cutting/present) and so natural sounding with the crazy level of saturation it has. It has a bunch of attributes that you wouldn't think could exist together but somehow they do in this amp.

 

[braintheory]

I have come across a couple special amps lately...the SD60 and this MKIII+. Like I mentioned when we chat after I first got the SD60, I liked it but wasn't floored. Well several months in and I'm now floored. It had a bad power tube and once I replaced both, man...what an amp. Never had an amp so aggressive and cutting yet so warm (lacking that sometimes annoying strident/grainy high end a lot of amps get when you dial them to be bright/cutting/present) and so natural sounding with the crazy level of saturation it has. It has a bunch of attributes that you wouldn't think could exist together but somehow they do in this amp.

Naylor’s are killer. Worth trying also EL34’s if you haven’t. So far Naylor’s and Wizard’s are the only non-vintage high gain amps I’ve tried that seem to have a good amount of that organic, raw sound in there. I’m sick of this filtered/less flavorful sound recent amps tend to have

 

[bubucci]

I am quite suprised how loud is Naylor 60, it getting louder even after 2 o'clock My gig volume is around 10 o'clock. I had MCII EL34 100W too but Duel 60 is still the amp I enjoy every time I play. MC was very unforgiving, dry sounding and I just doesn't enjoy gigging with it as much.

 

[Racerxrated]

That Naylor is indeed a killer amp...waited a year for it, and at first it was missing something I couldn't put my finger on...sounded great; but then I realized the feel was not what I remember. But, after 3 months or so that 'sticky' feel was back. There is a real thing called 'amp break in' that I had experienced.

Going back to that 2010 MC100, I literally gave myself a sound concussion with that amp. That was the 2nd time; first was the C+ slaved into a S 400 power amp. Did it again with my 72 SL.
But the low end thump of that Wizard, insane. Each time I'd get a strange headache after playing at such high volumes. It's a rush, but risky.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Naylor’s are killer. Worth trying also EL34’s if you haven’t. So far Naylor’s and Wizard’s are the only non-vintage high gain amps I’ve tried that seem to have a good amount of that organic, raw sound in there. I’m sick of this filtered/less flavorful sound recent amps tend to have

I had 6550 in the SD60 until the new tubes came and liked it but haven't tried EL34 yet. I put the new set of TAD 5881WXT in there and have been happy.

I hear ya. The Orion isn't the most organic/raw sound either, but I do still enjoy it for what it is. It still has decent dynamics and is just pissed sounding, but it is a tad on the "processed" sounding end of the spectrum compared to the Mesa, Wizard, or Naylor.

I am quite suprised how loud is Naylor 60, it getting louder even after 2 o'clock My gig volume is around 10 o'clock. I had MCII EL34 100W too but Duel 60 is still the amp I enjoy every time I play. MC was very unforgiving, dry sounding and I just doesn't enjoy gigging with it as much.

I honestly haven't even cranked up the SD60 much...it sounds so good at low/medium volumes. That's another reason I love it...saving the little hearing I have left is a top priority.

That Naylor is indeed a killer amp...waited a year for it, and at first it was missing something I couldn't put my finger on...sounded great; but then I realized the feel was not what I remember. But, after 3 months or so that 'sticky' feel was back. There is a real thing called 'amp break in' that I had experienced.

Going back to that 2010 MC100, I literally gave myself a sound concussion with that amp. That was the 2nd time; first was the C+ slaved into a S 400 power amp. Did it again with my 72 SL.
But the low end thump of that Wizard, insane. Each time I'd get a strange headache after playing at such high volumes. It's a rush, but risky.

I get the "sticky" feel comments. Its a weird way to describe these things (the feel of an amp) many people don't seem to understand these types of descriptions, but I do. Yes, it has this certain reaction/feel under the fingers, like your really connected to the amp...I think "sticky" is a good way to put it. It's just such a thick yet super articulate/clear tone too. Like I said above, so many great things happening that normally I don't get out of one amp. Tight, articulate, thick, warm, aggressive, smooth but raw, vintage but somehow modern too...it's a unique amp for sure.

 

[gtrwun]

I REALLY misinterpreted the thread title……..
I thought we were going to form a coalition of badasses here on RT, and travel to different locations and find amps that we hate, and punch the fuck out of them!

Oh well, another dream is crushed….??????

 

[7704A]

I REALLY misinterpreted the thread title……..

That makes two of us, and now my amp's warranty is void.

 

[thegame]

Respectfully, since that was six whopping years ago, could it be that you're just a shell of the man you used to be and have now become a bitch picker? Again, respectfully.