The Real Reason(s) Amplifier Modeling Doesn't Stand a Chance

[BeZo]

My guitarist uses a Helix, and I hear first hand how great it sounds. Recording direct, and sending a direct signal to FOH and our IEMs is really useful. I guess the whole point is that in order to get stage volume, he runs a Mesa 50/50 into a Mesa Recto 4x12. I guess the point is that if modelers are there to replace the guitar rig, why is a tube amp and guitar cab so necessary? What the hell is the difference between the Helix alone, and the Helix through an effects loop of an amp? Why not just have an effects processor with IRs?

 

[Panhead5]

Here's the deal --Depending on what you do they have their place and some sound damn good. and The amp and effects choices are huge for not a whole lot of money , but that's the problem . i bought a Helix LT and paid for patches and thought I would like it but I ended up constantly dicking with it instead of playing guitar. It totally didn't make sense . I'm older and a tube amp guy but If you travel or need to go light and plug and play it might be your thing . Me I love 4x12's and a wound up Tube amp !!!! Oh YEAH 11

 

[ZEN Amps]

For me it's very simple. It's not about needs, or convenience, or size, or weight, or cost. It's about the inspiration and enjoyment I get from playing through something cool. Digital emulations don't bring me either, and without that I may as well take up the accordion.

 

[NeubyWanKaneuby]

I like tubes. I like modelers. Hell, I even like plugins. Use what inspires you.

 

[Techdeth]

For me it's very simple. It's not about needs, or convenience, or size, or weight, or cost. It's about the inspiration and enjoyment I get from playing through something cool. Digital emulations don't bring me either, and without that I may as well take up the accordion.

I feel this way . Tube amps inspire me with their sounds . Honestly it’s just as important as practicing to me .

 

[TheGreatGreen]

I like good tube amps and good modelers, both. "Good" being the operative word here. There are great and awful examples of both.

Really good tube amps are great because they're iconic, awesome pieces of analog gear that achieve their sound by physically driving a bunch of components way over their intended operating ranges. It's fun to drive the shit out of stuff and see what happens, and it's particularly glorious when doing that happens to give you a sustainable, great sounding result... like what happens when you drive an amp to the point where it feels like you're controlling thunder and lighting with your fingers. They get hot and their components glow like something you'd see in a mad scientist's lab. Playing a tube amp and knowing the tubes in it won't last forever kind of makes you feel like you're buring fuel, and perhaps not coincidentally, given the right setup, a good tube amp doesn't sound too far off from a roaring engine. And not for nothing, tube amps look sweet as hell in a head+cab stack setup. How can something like that not be inspiring?

Really good modelers are great because they're infinitely flexible pieces of gear that achieve their sound by digitally approximating a whole bunch of analog components through equations in a virtual realm. Basically anything is possible in this format. You can surgically mix, match, and tweak stuff in ways you couldn't dream of doing with a real tube amp, which can get you great tones that simply aren't currently possible to get with real tube amps without altering them forever at best or blowing them up at worst. And you can automate a digital rig to an insane degree, anything from changing a few virtual stompboxes with a single button presse, to entire rigs with a button press, to syncing it with a DAW and having it do all the switching work for you so all you have to do is play the guitar. And, a modeler's virtual tubes don't need to warm up, and virtual tubes and caps will never wear or burn out, and any given sound you come up with can effectively be 100% consistent, forever. How is that not cool as hell and inspiring to use?

They can both sound fantastic, and they're both great for different reasons. Both of them inspire me in different ways.

I absolutely believe one can sound as good as the other in any context as well. Anybody who says modelers can't move air is mistaken, and simeply doesn't understand where amp modeling stops and IR's + FRFR starts. Anything routed into IR's and an FRFR PA system will never sound the same it does routed into a guitar cab, and this includes tube amps into reactive loads. On the other side, anybody who has played a good modeler + good solid state amp and guitar cab setup that's been dialed in knows it can be every bit as good as a tube amp in the same situation.

 

[jinch0]

A 4x12 FRFR still won't feel the same. You might as well just throw a couple extra PA speakers on stage.

What will get you there is a modeler through a power amp into a normal guitar 4x12. I have a rig set up just like that: my Fractal FM3 presets have two output paths, one with a cab block that can go to FOH or DAW and another without a cab block that goes to a Powerstage 170 to run through a guitar cab.

I've tried my fm3 with tube and solid-state power amps ,monitors and frfr and it's doesn't compare. Sure they are convenient but they're not a replacement for the real thing.

 

[rottingcorpse]

I am willing to bet that when cars first came out the owners of horse drawn carriages waxed poetic about how travel will no longer be as elegant and enjoyable as it was when they could sit behind the ass end of a horse and smell the glorious nature that surrounded them instead of the toxic fumes of the internal combustion engines of modern technology.

I felt the same way when I saw and felt the first fake tits in the early 80s.
Now I prefer fake titties.
They certainly have less sag than some older amps I have played.

There WILL come a time when the modelers we have today will be comparable to the first cars.
Same with plug-ins.
And there will still be old and new tube amps and these same conversations from people(or our robot masters)about which is better.
By then I will have become my screen name and won't care anyway.

 

[PDC]

Pure tube amp guy here. Played 3-4 nighters 50 weeks a year back in the day. Don’t get to play out near as much as I would like. I do have a couple of friends who play out regularly now - both use Fractals for all the known reasons, small, light, easy, consistent. Both guys have incredible tone because both guys are great players with great ears and spent a ton of time being very deliberate and patient dialing their sounds in. Both guys admit in an instant that they much prefer playing through their tube amps. I agree with an earlier post that the weak link is the power stage. Run your modeled sound into the input or FX return of a clean tube amp driving a quad of lower wattage speakers and you have a totally different thing going on than sending that signal through those little self powered FR wedges. I’m a guy who can make peace driving my hybrid to and from work every day as long as I can fire up my 426 Hemi Cuda on the weekends.