The shelf life of gear value

[prsplayer86]

So I've come across a few scores(gear wise) over the last 6 months. These are becoming more and more available in my particular part of the world. Amps that once brought 1400 used are now being seen anywhere from 350-950. This is fantastic from a buyers perspective but horrible for a collector/sellers point of view.

Example. Dual Rectifier, 2 channel , 1996 build with good glass and in great condition. I just scored this for 699 out the door. I know of two more of these for sale in my area for 800 bones each. (Let me know if your interested in one... I'll try to help a brother out) .

We all (if you've been in the gear trading business for 10 years or so ) can remember when theses easily brought 1,200 or 1400-1800 with a cabinet. Even after the 3 channel versions came out.

We've seen it here in the classifieds too... there have been incredible steals on Soldano, Peavey, Mesa, and Cthulhu know what else. So I guess the question is .... What dictates the value of used gear ?? When does something that was once very marketable and valuable become something you cant get rid of?


A few things to consider right out of the gate:

1. Its only worth what someone is willing to pay.

2. People (Particularly most gear heads) will sell something they're happy with to try something new (even at a lose). Present company (me) included.

3. Companies , for better or worse, Screw with components and designs on a nearly yearly basis. Even if the tone change can't be heard... your going to have someone say " well that year they changed to "blah" caps and it doesn't have the same feel.. Hence, the perceived value is lowered.

4. It's just not as cool to be in a band as it was 8-20 years ago. This means less people moving gear to play on, and more people bailing on gear to get it out of their closet.

5. The more "just take it off my hands" kind of deals you see, can and will effect the over all value of an item. If John Doe has a 1983 (forget the exact year) JCM 800 2203 Full stack for 1,200 ( saw this in Dallas, TX 4 months ago)... and has it posted on EVERY possible classified.... Now everyone who has seen that listing has the " well there was just a full stack for 1,200, why would I pay 1,200 for just the head ???" ammunition to haggle with.

There are more reasons I can think of... but for the sake of the post size.. I'll hold off. I think this is something that effects most of the RT users on here. Some of us have thousands, if not tens of thousands, tied up in gear. The idea of music equipment not holding its value is scary.. Guns and guitars have always been the two things that hold value ... and they're just not anymore.

Thoughts ?

 

[Oblivion DC]

IMHO - Everything goes in cycles. If you've got good gear just hold on to it for a while and in time it'll be worth what you might be interested in letting it go for.

 

[messenger]

Gear prices always fluctuate. I remember in the mid/late 90's you could get an old JCM 800 half stack for $1000. Then just couple years later the heads were going for $1200

 

[thiswaythatway]

Guitar in the USA is slowly going the way of the horn section, extinct in popular view. The gear market will suffer which is why buying used makes more sense than ever.

The market hasn't been great and it's the smaller companies they get hit first with lower value on the used market. You can see it now where some guys buy custom Suhr's or Anderson's for 4k and can't sell them. Gibsons and Fender, as shitty as they are, are a safer bet because of the past hero's that used them which keeps their value up.

It IS and eye opener to see how well the Fractal value has held on the used market. A lot of tube snobs predicted that by now all the Axe-Fx's would have been in the used gear junk bin for dirt cheap when that just hasn't been the case. The Axe-Fx holds it value better than any tube amp right now.

 

[Brandon Breeze]

I too have noticed this. Especially in the Mesa category. IMO there are a ton of amp makers out there that are either relatively new, or people are just finding out about them. People like trying new things, so the regular stuff goes down in value. Companies like Diezel, Laboga, CAA, ENGL, KSR, Framus, BadCat etc are really mixing the market up right now.

Then you also have to consider stuff like axe fx, kemper making it possible to have the sound of many of these amps for a fraction of the price and still sound darn good.

Example I downloaded Amplitube(free) on my iPad. It has many amp profiles on it as well as effects pedal simulators for only a few bucks. From my experience these simulations are not far off. I can plug my guitar into my iPad, plug the iPad into a power amp with a cabinet and have many amp profiles for under $50. As you can see I still like the real deal, but with all of the kids growing up with iPads/cell phones that can do almost anything, these virtual amps/pedals are going to be their choice.

 

[jcj]

The price drop thing is a self perpetuating cycle. People know if they end up selling something, they're going to take a huge hit, so they grind as hard as possible when buying; that becomes the new benchmark, and the cycle repeats. It's definitely taken the fun out of buying something just to give it a fair shot.

A. There's virtually nothing that's new or exciting.

B. Buying to try is effectively dead, because selling has become a huge pain in the ass.

C. Most of us who bought and sold a ton of gear have tried everything of interest.

 

[Steinmetzify]

The price drop thing is a self perpetuating cycle. People know if they end up selling something, they're going to take a huge hit, so they grind as hard as possible when buying; that becomes the new benchmark, and the cycle repeats. It's definitely taken the fun out of buying something just to give it a fair shot.

A. There's virtually nothing that's new or exciting.

B. Buying to try is effectively dead, because selling has become a huge pain in the ass.

C. Most of us who bought and sold a ton of gear have tried everything of interest.

All of the above, but most especially the bolded part.

I gave up. Guys that expect a brand new guitar when they know they're buying used and paying half price on something really started pissing me off. "But I found a ding that's half a centimeter long and you didn't say anything about it....I'm going to need $50 from you or I'm filing a claim with PayPal." This is what happens when collectors and resellers start buying your shit.

I've gotten a lot more suspect in who I deal with, and certainly with what I buy. Buying to try is over for me, because I won't sell it on if I hate it because of the assholes out there that have the balls to ask for a return on a used guitar purchased from a private seller. I have a closet with 8 guitars in it that aren't for me, but I'll be damned if I'm going to list em all and deal with people. I'd rather give em to a student music group or a church or something.

I bought and sold 17 guitars last year. This year so far? ONE, and I'm keeping it.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

I'm sick of selling my stuff to cheap fucking scabs. So, therefore, I'm never selling anything again.

Anybody want to buy a 5150 + Head?

 

[fretout]

I think you nailed it in your OP. If you can buy the same thing cheaper somewhere else, why would a buyer pay more? Thats my basis when buying gear, but it's important to know that there is a balance between condition, quality and price. If you want gear that barely works, it should be cheaper than something that's spent its life in a closet.

 

[blackba]

The price of gear just shows me a few things

1. The Economy is still crappy
2. Rock is dead
3. Modelers are really eating into tube amp values

I have been tempted by that mark Iva on the classifieds. It's at $950 now, they used to sell for $1400. Sure back in the late 90s a mark IV could be had for $700 to $1000, but I never thought I would see one under $1000.

I will say , now is the time to sell. Its tax return time. If gear is not moving in the next few months, than its worse than I thought.

 

[glip22]

The resale market has been terrible for a long while now. I think I am getting a good price but when I try to resell I have to lower it at a loss. I find it interesting the bigger dealers are still around and competing. People will beat the crap out of you on a like new used piece of gear but will buy new from dealers at 40% more.

 

[jsp]

There was a time when Mesa Rectifiers and Marks were THE high gain amp to have, and there are a lot more choices now, so it's normal for prices to go down. Plus, there are many buy-to-try people who have either tried everything by now, moved onto modelers, settled on mini versions of amps which are become more and more common, or aren't flipping often because the market sucks, which makes it suck even more. Massive backlines are becoming less and less common as more bands are starting to go direct, so fewer and fewer people are going to be going for multiple 100W+ amps.

The same for the Axe-FX II and Kempers, which are THE modelers to have right now and have pretty good resale. Once there are other comparable options of similar quality and the market gets saturated, used prices will drop.

On top of that, rock, especially heavy music, is dying, sadly. People like to hate on fads like numetal and screamo, but, at least they kept young people interested in picking up instruments. Doesn't seem to be the case any more.

 

[Mailman1971]

I think there will always be a market for tube amps. Like mentioned above....all goes in cycles.

 

[JeffHenneman]

I have a total of 9 heads and a rack setup with 5 preamps and a power amp. Low used prices is what helped me build up this arsenal. I got some great items for hella cheap, but it's a tuff market to try and sell anything.

 

[BrentSSL]

Lol amp dealers could start cash for clunkers for the amps to get the junky ones off the market like they did for cars. That way the market wouldn't be so flooded with some of the not so good amps out there. Or we could just start asking for more money for our amps on allbthe forums and try to drive the market back up.

 

[Jay Strange]

The price drop thing is a self perpetuating cycle. People know if they end up selling something, they're going to take a huge hit, so they grind as hard as possible when buying; that becomes the new benchmark, and the cycle repeats. It's definitely taken the fun out of buying something just to give it a fair shot.

A. There's virtually nothing that's new or exciting.

B. Buying to try is effectively dead, because selling has become a huge pain in the ass.

C. Most of us who bought and sold a ton of gear have tried everything of interest.

GREAT POST!!

 

[rottingcorpse]

Saying "I play guitar in a band" isn't as cool as it used to be. Now its kinda sad.

As for the price of gear, its what the market will bear. People buy modelers or profilers, and dump the tube heads. Some buy a bunch of killer amps, build an arsenal, and realize "damn,I could have bought a new car instead." Or "I need to pay for my dogs gender reassignment surgery".

I have a beater car, beat up clothes, a beater girlfriend, and awesome gear. Gotta have your priorities right. Gotta run, time for my shrink appointment.

 

[Stealthtastic]

If you're talking tube amps, then yes. AFXII/Kemper/Pods make way more sense for most people and their situation so tube heads are getting redundant.

 

[BrentSSL]

The price drop thing is a self perpetuating cycle. People know if they end up selling something, they're going to take a huge hit, so they grind as hard as possible when buying; that becomes the new benchmark, and the cycle repeats. It's definitely taken the fun out of buying something just to give it a fair shot.

A. There's virtually nothing that's new or exciting.

B. Buying to try is effectively dead, because selling has become a huge pain in the ass.

C. Most of us who bought and sold a ton of gear have tried everything of interest.

GREAT POST!!

Yes it is and I am hoping rock isn't dead

 

[Heritage Softail]

It may sound old, boring, and maybe not fit in this post...

But the best gear you have once you get baseline decent gear is your brain.

Guitsr lessons from a studio musician on how to coax the music out of your head and out the 1/4" jack is the most valuable thing.

That said, something great in its musical arena holds value. A MKIIC holds value well. A Collings double cut with P90's that is on so many albums holds value very well.

As others have mentioned about guitR in general, it has moved from rock based metal to the classic rock tones now in rock based new country IMO.

I also wonder about how much we were getting jacked on gear in the past by booteek guys. They were able to get that fat coin in the past but today it does not happen so much.

The EVH Stealth is a great example of a blistering amp that won't break the bank. My Rhodes Gemini with the programmable foot switch and pimped out color changing faceplate still wasn't that expensive for all it does.

But when the market gets saturated it will lose value.

And why not get a Kemper? They sound great? That just made a wall of tube amps pretty much obsolete except for those wanting to spend thousands more for that little bit extra.

I think we should look to women for how to value something people want. There is lots of pussy running around but if it is in a hot package and has a tight bottom end... It ain't never cheap.

The great stuff never is. When it comes to gear, don't buy the used fat girl, nobody is gonna buy it later and you know it.