Thinking about revamping my entire recording setup. Looking for recommendations

WhiteShadow

WhiteShadow

Active member
Thinking about just gutting the setup I've got so far and just starting over from scratch. I have my reasons for wanting to do this. To make a long story short, it really just boils down to the fact that I've struggled immensely for 4 solid years now to make good recordings and have exhaustively tried what seems like damn near everything, spent so much money on DAWs, plugins, gear, not to mention time and energy practicing, studying, watching tutorials etc... only for my stuff to keep sounding like shite.

I think the issues has to lie somewhere in my gear, bc things just sound "off" and "not right" (for lack of better terms) right out of the gate.

So, I just want to eliminate the possibility of it being in the gear by just jettisoning what I've got, and investing in all new stuff.

I think I want to go with a Macbook and go with Logic Pro X this time, with a better set of monitors and a new interface.

For reference, I currently have a desktop PC which I built. It's got a i5 processor, and 8 gigs ram I think (possibly 16). I can't remember what I put in it in ram. It runs windows 10. Focusrite solo interface. Mackie CR3 monitors.

Was thinking of going with those KRK monitors I see people using. I've heard they're really good for the money, though not sure which model to buy?

If I don't end up buying a new computer, I think I will at least upgrade monitors and possibly interface and see what that does.

Thoughts?
 
Acoustic treatment and THEN good monitors. If your room is untreated and you have standing waves, flutter echoes, phase cancellation, and hot spots, you could literally have a $12k pair of ATC monitors and still pump out shit mixes. Ask me how I know, lol! What kind of budget are you working with?
 
Soundstorm said:
Acoustic treatment and THEN good monitors. If your room is untreated and you have standing waves, flutter echoes, phase cancellation, and hot spots, you could literally have a $12k pair of ATC monitors and still pump out shit mixes. Ask me how I know, lol! What kind of budget are you working with?
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Right now, probably no more than $1,000. If I can cut corners I'd like to see where I can do so.

As far as the room treatment, not sure what that entails or how to do it, but everything is in the box with me, but I'm sure it probably still matters how the room is treated bc you have to hear it right to mix it.

However, I will say that I don't think my issue lies in the mix. I think things are going wrong on a much more fundamental, preliminary level than that. The plugins/vsts etc. just don't sound "right" from the get go, if that makes any sense. It just seems like the audio is crushed and fucked up somehow. I can't really explain. Answering that one question and diagnosing what the issue is is really the million dollar question with me. I think the mixing/mastering/EQing/production thing is further down the line.
 
Acoustic treatment can be pricey, but you can also make your own if you have the tools for it. There's some how to guides over on Gearspace. Basically with an untreated room you'll always be fighting an uphill battle with your mixes. I struggled for years and spent lots of money on plugins and hardware before I realized what all the more experienced engineers were telling me was true.

It would be worth it to buy the Sonarworks calibration set, if not to use the treatment portion of the software, to at least use the analytics so you can see what the frequency response in your room is. It comes with a microphone and you measure something like 46 points in your room while it plays tones. Takes about a half an hour. If you're serious about getting good mixes this is essential. I found the Sonarworks software and microphone package used for $150 on the GearPage. I'm not saying you might not be having software issues either. But it's more likely to me that your untreated room is the culprit. You might be having phase cancellation issues. Try moving your monitors around and see how the sound responds.

It's a lot to unpack to have a home studio where what you're hearing translates to the rest of the world. It's not cheap or quick either. What's your setup like, what DAW are you using, what instruments are you recording and how?
 
Soundstorm said:
Acoustic treatment can be pricey, but you can also make your own if you have the tools for it. There's some how to guides over on Gearspace. Basically with an untreated room you'll always be fighting an uphill battle with your mixes. I struggled for years and spent lots of money on plugins and hardware before I realized what all the more experienced engineers were telling me was true.

It would be worth it to buy the Sonarworks calibration set, if not to use the treatment portion of the software, to at least use the analytics so you can see what the frequency response in your room is. It comes with a microphone and you measure something like 46 points in your room while it plays tones. Takes about a half an hour. If you're serious about getting good mixes this is essential. I found the Sonarworks software and microphone package used for $150 on the GearPage. I'm not saying you might not be having software issues either. But it's more likely to me that your untreated room is the culprit. You might be having phase cancellation issues. Try moving your monitors around and see how the sound responds.

It's a lot to unpack to have a home studio where what you're hearing translates to the rest of the world. It's not cheap or quick either. What's your setup like, what DAW are you using, what instruments are you recording and how?
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I didn't even know about the Sonarworks set, thats cool. I'll look into that. Thanks!

You know, the funny thing is I've known guys who had utter junk and used nothing but free software and made killer sounding tracks. They weren't even pros or schooled in audio production in any way. These two guys I knew who owned a cell phone repair shop just used a crappy laptop and wired this old iphone dock station to use as their monitors, and their stuff sounded like a pro record. They were using all free software

Then there's this other kid I know who literally just got into this stuff. Just downloaded a random DAW and free plugins, doesn't even have a set of monitors, he just uses this bluetooth earphone set, and he just fired his software up and laid down some tracks without mixing or anything and it sounded like a million bucks.

So I'm just scratching my head here wondering what on earth I'm doing wrong. Something is going on on a much more fundamental level.
 
Where are you located? I have a bunch of 2’x4’x4” panels I built a few years ago that works great. I’ve since replaced them and they’re just sitting in my garage. You’d be welcome to them, actually anyone in the Atlanta area is welcome to them.

I think room treatment is the basics, must have, everything else builds from there. After years of trying different gear, it’s amazing at the difference treatment makes.

Sounds like you may have level issues or something clipping. Do you have everything set to match in line levels (-10 dBV and +4 dBu), recording well under the red lines that indicate clipping, nothing should be hitting red, etc…
 
Fuck plugins.. The Plugins included with your Recording Software are more than adequate. What a scam.

HARDWARE is where it's at. A good Mic Pre will make a difference even if it's a clone.. https://www.sweetwater.com/c662--Warm_Audio--Preamps

If you don't have Monitors, I'd get that right now. I have a pair of 3.5"Monitors in my Basement from Presonus and they crank.. Bigger ones could only sound better. A pair of 8" are $500 bux..

https://www.sweetwater.com/c405--Ac...s=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJCcmFuZCI6WyJQcmVTb251cyJdfX0
 
My mac died late last year and thought about a whole new setup too but realized the room treatment and monitors/subwoofer was gonna be a rabbit hole. Decided on the Slate VSX headphones instead of all that and very glad I did. My mixes are sounding great now the first time. Don’t even need to check them in the car anymore and its all in the box. Definitely would look into these if I were you.
 
Yup, I was going to suggest trying headphones exclusively for starters.

He wouldn't need to buy the VSX system (pricey) 'cause Waves, for example, has some plugin-only options that're way-cheaper.
 
Monkey Man said:
Yup, I was going to suggest trying headphones exclusively for starters.

He wouldn't need to buy the VSX system (pricey) 'cause Waves, for example, has some plugin-only options that're way-cheaper.
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I’ve heard its a bad idea to mix on headphones, not sure if thats true though?

Whats a good cheaper set?
 
I have no advice. I have given up on it. Once I do get whatever working…tonocracy, stl, reaper, audacity, NAM….latency ruins it. And I can’t live record with a digital sound for shit because of the latency. And recording with a dry signal to reamp is horrible. Of course my laptop is probably way too underpowered for recording.
 
WhiteShadow said:
I’ve heard its a bad idea to mix on headphones, not sure if thats true though?

Whats a good cheaper set?
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Ah but I suggested trying it for starters brother.

That way it'll eliminate the room and / or monitors being possible culprits. Sure, it's not-ideal, but the idea is to see whether or not the full-on crap sound you speak of goes away. FWIMBW, it's possible to mix well on headphones. My best demo ever was mixed entirely on a $25 set of foam-backed Sennheisers back in the '90s. The foam was disintemagrating but no matter. One of the tricks is not to mess with the low end too much.

My stage-2 follow-up, assuming the first showed promise, was to then buy into the speaker-simulation thing as cheaply (but well) as possible, hence the Waves suggestion.
 
The VSX may be pricey compared to others (didnt know there were others), but so worth it compared to time spent testing mixes on different systems, and the money youd spend on a good monitoring setup/room treatment. I took a gamble at getting these and very happy. You forget youre even wearing headphones when you use them.
 
After doing this for decades you come to find the limitations most of the time are going to be you. Sounds harsh but hear me out. I've had primo hardware, mic pres, the most expensive mics, all that stuff. My mixes didn't start to improve until I better understood how all these parts work together to make a whole. Badass gear is how you go from 90% to 100% not from zero to hero.

You can totally stumble onto some good sounding stuff which probably explains your first timer friends having decent sounding mixes. Takes time and understanding to hear something and know what the problem is and how to fix it or to know the kinds of sounds you want to get and how to make them happen.

Will your mixes sound better with Neve mic pres instead of a $100 soundcard? Probably a little but I can promise you that if you made crappy mixes on low end hardware then throwing you into a million dollar studio isn't going to instantly make your mixes any better.

Now if you're getting good sounds, understand fundamentals and just getting shitty mixes- too much lowend, harsh highs, bad imaging type of situations then it's likely room treatment/monitoring holding you back. Hard to paint when you can't see the canvas so to speak.

Might help if you post a mix. I'm sure a bunch of us would be happy to tear it apart for you. :D
 
WhiteShadow said:
It just seems like the audio is crushed and fucked up somehow. I can't really explain.
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Well I guess there is the possibility that the audio is just crushed and fucked up (lol) BUT chances are you're the one crushing it and fucking it up. Go into your daw and throw an MP3 in there and play it. Does it sound fine or crushed and fucked up? If it's crushed and fucked up you've got some sort of a levels or settings issue most likely. If it sounds fine we can eliminate your hardware and computer as the issue. Gain staging is important. Not clipping which is what it sounds like you're are referring to is important. I found some of my first recording from the 90s the other day. Fuck I was garbage. I could hear my 90s Sound Blaster dying and just clipping like a MFer. Knowledge is gonna be your best friend here.
 
mesa4x12er said:
After doing this for decades you come to find the limitations most of the time are going to be you. Sounds harsh but hear me out.
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OP, you're not going to get better advice than this.

The gear you listed is adequate, so time for a new approach. Maybe pay a local engineer for a few hours, check your setup, troubleshoot, offer some advice / informal training etc.

If you're frustrated now, spending lots of dough on new gear and then getting similar results is going to be far worse.
 
This sounds way more basic than all the suggestions here. The way it's being described doesn't sound like a "subtle" thing. It's not like a struggle because of a lack of mic pre.

"However, I will say that I don't think my issue lies in the mix. I think things are going wrong on a much more fundamental, preliminary level than that. The plugins/vsts etc. just don't sound "right" from the get go, if that makes any sense. It just seems like the audio is crushed and fucked up somehow. I can't really explain."

- I'm guessing you are probably using some decent plugin amps as there are a lot of good ones available these days. So that won't be the problem.

- Transitioning to "Macbook and go with Logic Pro X this time" isn't it either. Cool if you like the look of Logic, or some other reason. But that is not what is causing this. What are you using currently as a DAW?

- Are we sure there isn't a fundamental issue, like instrument cable quality? Or even some settings in your DAW? Like the gain settings. You're not clipping are you?

More info on your setup please. Screenshots will help. So will an audio sample. Even if it is just you playing a few chords or whatever.
 
I’d suggest not wasting time with cheap monitors. Go to a Guitar Center where they have the monitor demo area, they generally have KRK’s, Adam’s and Yamaha’s in 3 different sizes and have a hookup for your phone so you can check your own mixes or music you’re familiar with on them. I’m quite certain that doing this would steer you away from those KRK’s immediately.

I upgraded my monitors from Yamaha HS5’s to HS8’s a couple months ago and I REALLY fucking wish I had done it years ago. Without being able to hear the full frequency range, I was shooting in the dark with mixes and because I spent so long training my ears to hear a limited frequency range and how things work within that frequency range, I’m playing catch up on good monitors now.

If you’re going to put money into any plugins, get FabFilter’s Pro-Q3 and use it to learn the frequency range on. The Solo option on it allows you to hear exactly what you’re cutting and that plug-in has taught me just as much as I’ve gotten use out of it. A Waves bundle with some compressors and random shit could be good, but plugins are basically like wanting to learn how to be a great country player and then buying a fuckton of pedals to accomplish it, there’s FAR MORE important shit to learn before jumping into plugins.

Gain staging and giving everything it’s own spot in the mix are so fucking crucial to a mix that you can destroy it before you even get started by not staging properly and not spending enough time getting the source tones sorted before recording.
 
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