This is what burns my ass in regards to the axe-fx zealots.

[steveb]

Best thing mentioned in this thread, IMO:

 

[digwhisper]

how it will never replace a tube amp and all that shit.

IMHO its not "shit"..... its a fact that the Axe will by no means replace tube amps. Maybe sometime in the future when computers get fast enough to truly capture everything about a tube amp.... maybe just maybe then the digital thing might really become more the norm than tubes but who can say Fractal will be around then. That said even at that time I sure tube amps will still be cool to some players.

The problem here is that I never said it would. I would just come on and say that I got this Axe Fx and that I love it and I'd get jumped by all these different people going all tube nazi on me. I agree that quite a few Axe Fx users I've heard from come across as elitist but it goes both ways. In fact, when I started introducing the Axe Fx to the forums I hang out on I wasn't even comparing it to tube rigs, I was comparing it the Vetta II head that it replaced for me.

I never said that it would replace all tube amps or that it should. I'm of the thought that it's another tool to have around. For me it did replace tube rigs, because I can get a fuckload of totally usable tones in a small and relatively cheap package.

 

[ejecta]

But lets see what happenes in a few decades when th guitar has gone the way of the saxophone.

Oh God I hope that never happens.

 

[digwhisper]

Best thing mentioned in this thread, IMO:

Yummy.

 

[Hacksaw]

because of all the intense hype back and forth.. I am analyzing this piece of gear way more than any amp I ever bought and I don't own the Axe-fx. Even since using modelers and other gear from the late 70's to this day, I am really critical this time. it's a shame! Good thing I know someone doing most of this for me!

Oh heck with the thread! I just got derailed! See post above! haha

 

[JamesPeters]

It's also amazing to think people just can't appreciate a piece of gear for what it's best at, especially if it suits their tastes, and leave it at that. It's always "better" this and "best" that. I particularly find that amusing about pickups; there's always someone going zomg about some pickup I've never used, and when I do use it (in my guitars, all of which sound great or I wouldn't own them), the pickup doesn't float my boat as much as the pickups I already use. I can explain why I prefer the pickups I use, and there's always someone going "I dunno man..." as though I'm making up lies about it for some unknown and illogical reason. It reminds me of in the 80s when everyone was yanking pickups from Gibson guitars and putting in Duncans saying that they were way better...and Gibson pickups have only increased in popularity since then.

As for whether tube amps are going anywhere or not...hey I thought they would've been going extinct a couple decades ago. If the demand for them dies, I'm sure I'll find a way to live. I'm not going to worry about it though.

 

[ejecta]

I would just come on and say that I got this Axe Fx and that I love it and I'd get jumped by all these different people going all tube nazi on me. I agree that quite a few Axe Fx users I've heard from come across as elitist but it goes both ways. In fact, when I started introducing the Axe Fx to the forums I hang out on I wasn't even comparing it to tube rigs, I was comparing it the Vetta II head that it replaced for me.

I never said that it would replace all tube amps or that it should. I'm of the thought that it's another tool to have around. For me it did replace tube rigs, because I can get a fuckload of totally usable tones in a small and relatively cheap package.

See thats the thing, why is it "elitist" or being a "tube nazi" for a guy who plays tube amps to say the Axe isnt like a tube amp and he prefers a tube amp? I mean sorry but the Axe is not 100% like a tube smp and cant be. This is proven true by math and phsyics. The software and computers just arent fast enough yet to capture the sum of the whole in tube amps. Now if its close enough for some people then great but I dont see someone saying the Axe doesnt get them where a tube amp can and they can tell the difference between the two makes them an elitist.

It's also amazing to think people just can't appreciate a piece of gear for what it's best at, especially if it suits their tastes, and leave it at that.

Exactly!

 

[steveb]

ok, I'll add some Axe content along with the Sandra bullock pic I agree with whoever above mentioned that people get protective of gear they've spent a bunch of money on and tend to get defensive to justify their purchases. The only thing that really matters is if the tools work for you, not what anybody else thingk of it, although there are plenty of people on gear forums who seem to enjoy belonging to certain "clubs" based on the gear they buy. The gear only has meaning in how it allows you to express yourself musically.

Of course its not just guitar boards that have this issue.... amateur astronomers know too well that there are plenty of people who love to build bigger and bigger telescopes but can't find anything in the sky.

I can't blame Scott P. for waxing eloquently about the AxeFx. It's cool he's found a piece of gear he can feel so passionate about, I'm sure that helps translate to his playing. Its all just tools.

As to the Axe not "getting you there" to exact tube ampishness... well, the tube amp can't "get you there" towards Axeishness either. So what? They both take a guitar in one end and put out amplified guitar tone at the other... there is no "better", just different. We need to get over this "real" verses "fake" dichotomy and appreciate what each does.

My current rig of choice... best of both worlds... hard to beat a Boogie AxeFx combo for me!

 

[digwhisper]

I would just come on and say that I got this Axe Fx and that I love it and I'd get jumped by all these different people going all tube nazi on me. I agree that quite a few Axe Fx users I've heard from come across as elitist but it goes both ways. In fact, when I started introducing the Axe Fx to the forums I hang out on I wasn't even comparing it to tube rigs, I was comparing it the Vetta II head that it replaced for me.

I never said that it would replace all tube amps or that it should. I'm of the thought that it's another tool to have around. For me it did replace tube rigs, because I can get a fuckload of totally usable tones in a small and relatively cheap package.

See thats the thing, why is it "elitist" or being a "tube nazi" for a guy who plays tube amps to say the Axe isnt like a tube amp and he prefers a tube amp? I mean sorry but the Axe is not 100% like a tube smp and cant be. This is proven true by math and phsyics. The software and computers just arent fast enough yet to capture the sum of the whole in tube amps. Now if its close enough for some people then great but I dont see someone saying the Axe doesnt get them where a tube amp can and they can tell the difference between the two makes them an elitist.

My problem is that I never hear, "thanks but I prefer a tube amp". I am told that modelers will never do this or never do that or that tubes can do this and modelers can't do that. Your post is a perfect example, "the Axe is not 100% like a tube smp and can't be". I never said that it was, could, or should. I didn't say anything about tube amps or modelers being better or worse than another. I just mention the Axe Fx and this conversation comes up all the time.

One of the first places I tried to introduce the Axe Fx was over at the John Petrucci forum. I hadn't even got my Axe Fx yet and I was actually comparing it to a Line 6 Vetta and I got jumped by the "tube" guys.

http://www.petrucciforum.com/forums/sho ... hp?t=41129

I just don't understand why gear has to be a competition. Get the gear that does what you need it to for what you can afford and play on.

 

[degenaro]

I would just come on and say that I got this Axe Fx and that I love it and I'd get jumped by all these different people going all tube nazi on me. I agree that quite a few Axe Fx users I've heard from come across as elitist but it goes both ways. In fact, when I started introducing the Axe Fx to the forums I hang out on I wasn't even comparing it to tube rigs, I was comparing it the Vetta II head that it replaced for me.

I never said that it would replace all tube amps or that it should. I'm of the thought that it's another tool to have around. For me it did replace tube rigs, because I can get a fuckload of totally usable tones in a small and relatively cheap package.

See thats the thing, why is it "elitist" or being a "tube nazi" for a guy who plays tube amps to say the Axe isnt like a tube amp and he prefers a tube amp? I mean sorry but the Axe is not 100% like a tube smp and cant be. This is proven true by math and phsyics. The software and computers just arent fast enough yet to capture the sum of the whole in tube amps. Now if its close enough for some people then great but I dont see someone saying the Axe doesnt get them where a tube amp can and they can tell the difference between the two makes them an elitist.

It's also amazing to think people just can't appreciate a piece of gear for what it's best at, especially if it suits their tastes, and leave it at that.

Exactly!

Let me do the devil's advocate thing...The elitist thing is when folks dismiss other folk's choices with that "I know better" attitude. Doesn't really matter what any one thinks works for them, when they start telling me is when I get mildly amused. Seriously, I like to think I know enough about amps and what makes my tone tick, and what I like to hear that when I get told to us ....because of....
Really? Some guy that has no similarity in style, taste, approach, usage thinks he knows enough to tell what to use? Hell no.

 

[ejecta]

ok, I'll add some Axe content along with the Sandra bullock pic I agree with whoever above mentioned that people get protective of gear they've spent a bunch of money on and tend to get defensive to justify their purchases. The only thing that really matters is if the tools work for you, not what anybody else thingk of it, although there are plenty of people on gear forums who seem to enjoy belonging to certain "clubs" based on the gear they buy. The gear only has meaning in how it allows you to express yourself musically.

Of course its not just guitar boards that have this issue.... amateur astronomers know too well that there are plenty of people who love to build bigger and bigger telescopes but can't find anything in the sky.

I can't blame Scott P. for waxing eloquently about the AxeFx. It's cool he's found a piece of gear he can feel so passionate about, I'm sure that helps translate to his playing. Its all just tools.

As to the Axe not "getting you there" to exact tube ampishness... well, the tube amp can't "get you there" towards Axeishness either. So what? They both take a guitar in one end and put out amplified guitar tone at the other... there is no "better", just different. We need to get over this "real" verses "fake" dichotomy and appreciate what each does.

My current rig of choice... best of both worlds... hard to beat a Boogie AxeFx combo for me!

Cool rig! While I agree 100% about amps and the Axe etc just being tools and we should look at them as means to make what music you like and I get behind this all the way I truly do..... these things are marketed as and are built to be "modelers" so the comparison to the real thing being "modeled" is a very understandable and reasonable thing to have happen.

 

[Hacksaw]

somewhere along the line someone compares it to a tube amp instead of finding what the device is really good at. some await the masterfull device that ends tube amps. Guess it comes down to people don't want to use a tool as it may be intended.. also, all the comparison clips really get things going as well I think. I try to use amps for what each is best at.

 

[JamesPeters]

My problem is that I never hear, "thanks but I prefer a tube amp". I am told that modelers will never do this or never do that or that tubes can do this and modelers can't do that.

It's all just talk because none of us know what the future holds...unless one of us has a crystal ball or something. So let them say that, and be happy with what you have. Neither side can prove the other wrong.

 

[ejecta]

[
Let me do the devil's advocate thing...The elitist thing is when folks dismiss other folk's choices with that "I know better" attitude.

I think people are way too sensitive about this shit. Seriously.

 

[steveb]

Right, a tube front end

Actually, an Axe front end 4CM with the boogie preamp in the Axe loop, Boogie tube back end. I can use the Axe Modellers or the Boogie preamp, whichever.

 

[ejecta]

somewhere along the line someone compares it to a tube amp instead of finding what the device is really good at. some await the masterfull device that ends tube amps. Guess it comes down to people don't want to use a tool as it may be intended.. also, all the comparison clips really get things going as well I think. I try to use amps for what each is best at.

But the Axe, Line 6, Tone Lab, et al are marketed and built to model tube amps and or cabs. Why does it surprise people that they get compared to tube amps and or cabs???

 

[digwhisper]

I love tube rigs. I love the feel and tone of a tube amp cranked up to the point of near explosion and the experience I get when playing with them. They sound monstrous, feel alive, and interact with every nuance of my playing.

For me modelers have never been about building the better mousetrap (tube amp). They're about suspending disbelief. It's about being able to live with the compromise. With a modeler I get a rig that's way more versatile, smaller, lighter, more consistent, and able to sound good at low volumes. Every modeler I tried before the Axe Fx I felt regret while I was playing them. I missed those tubes. I missed the whole experience. It was like jerking off to a picture of hot girl instead of banging her. With the Axe Fx, that regret is gone, and I don't miss those tubes. I get all the things I love about modelers and I it's an acceptable compromise to me.

Every player is different though. We play different stages in different venues at different volumes and have vastly different needs. Want a tube amp? Cool. Want a modeler? Cool. Why would you want to argue over which is better for someone else?

 

[degenaro]

[
Let me do the devil's advocate thing...The elitist thing is when folks dismiss other folk's choices with that "I know better" attitude.

I think people are way too sensitive about this shit. Seriously.

yup...l

 

[jcj]

Jeeezus.....I have one, like it, and I'M sick of hearing about the fucking thing.....

 

[Hacksaw]

somewhere along the line someone compares it to a tube amp instead of finding what the device is really good at. some await the masterfull device that ends tube amps. Guess it comes down to people don't want to use a tool as it may be intended.. also, all the comparison clips really get things going as well I think. I try to use amps for what each is best at.

But the Axe, Line 6, Tone Lab, et al are marketed and built to model tube amps and or cabs. Why does it surprise people that they get compared to tube amps and or cabs???

sometimes I am suprised.. I agree marketed and it's aimed at tubes. comparing can be like splitting hairs, it gets close but its not 100% at what point, or when in time does it not matter to a player? I dunno.. a lot of splitting hairs going on, and i am just watching the game, I know my Rocktron Voodu valve fromthe 90's did a REAL good job at acting and feeling like tubes. this (Axe-fx) isnt anything new.. but improved I would say, yes. ( thats why I dont get all the crazyness I guess)