This may be a stupid question, but....

[MadAsAHatter]

If guitar is mostly a mid frequency instrument and that's their place in a mix, why do guitar amps only have one mid knob? Would it not be more useful to at least split it into hi-mid & low-mid?

I pose the question because channel 3 on my ENGL Steve Morse has the mid matrix which has hi-mid & low-mid controls with a frequency shift button for each. Even without the frequency shift I find having the mids split into hi & low makes it easier to dial in and not have to compromise on one or the other. I can get the low-mid growl without too much hi-mid honk, but enough to cut. I think better control of mids is why I've liked my Blue VooDoo so much too. It's hi-mid voiced, but has a selectable mid frequency boost. I can set the main hi-mid voicing to cut without the honk then boost the low mid frequency to add in the growl. With only one mid knob like on other amps it always feels like a compromise between the two; The right amount of low-mid, but too much hi-mid honk, or the right hi-mid, but not enough low-mid growl. Or vice-versa if the amp is low-mid voiced.

 

[cardinal]

Guitar amps use to not have a mid knob at all, and then I think we got stuck just reproducing '60s designs with tweaks. The Mark EQ and the two-band mids like on the Engl and some Gallien Krueger bass amps are very useful, but the Deluxe Reverb and 1959 didn't have controls like that so I think most amps don't either. I think it's just general lack of originality, not because it isn't useful.

 

[Beyond Black]

Remedied with an EQ.

 

[Monkey Man]

It's a good point 'though.

A simple constant-Q parametric for the mids would solve most midrange "issues" and only use 1 extra knob.

So, just a frequency-select and a cut / boost knob.

 

[cardinal]

Also sweepable mids could make an amp sound terrible if there's a lot of range, and maybe companies don't want their amp getting a bad rep just because people can't figure out how to use it.

 

[Monkey Man]

True dat I reckon.

They choose the range of operation to compliment / safely alter the natural voicing for sure.

 

[Devin]

It's one of the reasons I loved the ENGL E530 preamp so much. The dual mid controls fuck hard

 

[japetus]

Bonus thought: why do some of the greatest amps ever have NO mid knob?

 

[Monkey Man]

Bonus thought: why do some of the greatest amps ever have NO mid knob?

When you use classy components and have great circuit design...

Look at home-stereo amps. Generally, the better the amp, the less need for EQ.

Same goes for hooked-up monitors. If your monitors are great, you should never need EQ for listening to movies or music. Your own material, well that's a different story.

 

[RaceU4her]

I would get a parametric eq for the loop

 

[Monkey Man]

Seems like the obvious solution in this case mate.

 

[ZEN Amps]

Would it not be more useful to at least split it into hi-mid & low-mid?

For some players, some of the time - yes. For most players, most of the time - no. Besides adding complexity to a design, that's your basic answer.

 

[SpiderWars]

Bonus thought: why do some of the greatest amps ever have NO mid knob?

My guess is that they were designed to remain very simple circuits. More complexity and more parts cost more so they were designed as simple as they could get away with.

 

[Clay K]

I played the Morse model when I was in Amsterdam. Loved the mid matrix.

 

[TheToneDig]

It's a double-edged sword. MESA 5 band onboard EQ is a pain for some people who find it a nightmare to get a good tone from a unit. If you have more dials, then its more ways not to dial in the tone you want. Some amp makers go for toggle switches instead. Dark/Normal/Bright so you only have 3 additional modes in addition to whatever you dial in with the amp. It is also how an amp ends up with a signature tone. A Peavey 5150/6505+ is well known for having constraints over its signature tone like that. You need an EQ pedal to hear what happens when you push the levels outside of its EQ constraints.

 

[japetus]

It's a double-edged sword. MESA 5 band onboard EQ is a pain for some people who find it a nightmare to get a good tone from a unit. If you have more dials, then its more ways not to dial in the tone you want. Some amp makers go for toggle switches instead. Dark/Normal/Bright so you only have 3 additional modes in addition to whatever you dial in with the amp. It is also how an amp ends up with a signature tone. A Peavey 5150/6505+ is well known for having constraints over its signature tone like that. You need an EQ pedal to hear what happens when you push the levels outside of its EQ constraints.

Bro you say a lot but nothing at all

 

[311boogieman]

Keep in mind, a guitar amp is going to have a mid centric circuit anyway. So you can think of the bass, middle, treble to be your low, mid, high 'mids'. Also, in many amps these controls all interact with one another and can drastically effect the gain structure. So if your amp is not giving you what you want, you can try a pedal first or spends tons of time and money on pickups and speakers but ultimately, you may need a different amp.

Keep in mind also, I don't design amps or write books about things I don't know anything about.

 

[TheToneDig]

Bro you say a lot but nothing at all

That's quite an empty statement if you can't explain what was objectionable to what I said. My bet is nothing at all. Quote the bit you are having trouble with. Probably isn't anything though.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Interesting answers so far.
I'll add some extra food for thought to my original question. With limited ability to shape the mids having only one knob, in a 2 guitar band you lose ability to compliment each other. If both are trying to boost the same frequencies it can become a competition of who's pushing the hardest to cut through and be heard. One inevitably becomes lost behind the other. <--- I've been in that situation enough times with people who didn't know how to occupy their sonic space. With better control one guitar can fill mid-mids to hi-mids and the other fill low-mids to mid-mids thereby filling the midrange sonic spectrum by complementing each other instead of trying to out compete.

 

[Monkey Man]

The obvious solution to that scenario is for each to use a different amp, which I'd say is what happens most-of-the-time.