Tone is in the fingers/hands?

[JakeAC5253]

I was talking to a custom guitar maker recently and he went off on a five minute rant about how guitar players are idiot snobs who think wood types make any difference in an electric guitar and that it couldn't be further from the truth.........

WTF....??? Does he build miniature model custom guitars for dashboards or the real deal? How the hell can anyone concur with this when the simplest of simple comparos (that being maple versus rosewood versus ebony fingerboards) shows differences that are so obvious? Soooooooooooooo, this custom guitar maker thinks plywood or pine would sound just as good as mahogany?

Clueless. But what gets me is he MAKES guitars?!?!?!??!?!
V.

A/B comparisons between anything that requires taking strings off is moot. Such slight differences in string and pickup height can cause huge tone variations. When we are talking about two different guitars the amount of variables exceeds in my opinion what any average human is capable of controlling, let alone to call it an A/B comparison.

 

[robertkoa]

Gear sets how high the bar is, your hand and fingers determine how close you can get to that bar.

Ooh... I like that.

Wow- that's a really concise explanation with a LOT of truth! BRILLIANT!

 

[wIsEbLooD]

i have an old plywood kramer with a jb that sounds pretty damn good actually.

 

[Ventura]

I was talking to a custom guitar maker recently and he went off on a five minute rant about how guitar players are idiot snobs who think wood types make any difference in an electric guitar and that it couldn't be further from the truth.........

WTF....??? Does he build miniature model custom guitars for dashboards or the real deal? How the hell can anyone concur with this when the simplest of simple comparos (that being maple versus rosewood versus ebony fingerboards) shows differences that are so obvious? Soooooooooooooo, this custom guitar maker thinks plywood or pine would sound just as good as mahogany?

Clueless. But what gets me is he MAKES guitars?!?!?!??!?!
V.

A/B comparisons between anything that requires taking strings off is moot. Such slight differences in string and pickup height can cause huge tone variations. When we are talking about two different guitars the amount of variables exceeds in my opinion what any average human is capable of controlling, let alone to call it an A/B comparison.

Alright, I too concur with this - but overall, rather than the A/B approach, let's just look at the BIG PICTURE.... Overall, ebony and maple and rosewood fingerboards have a character to them that is both noticeable and unique unto each other. Across the board. So rather than look at it from a micro approach, I'm looking at it from a macro approach. And - this is coming from a guy who at one time felt very strongly that there is nothing but strings vibrating within a flux field which is being picked up by a conductor and sent to an amplifier...in which case, wood is not a variable whatsoever. But then the argument of resonance and sustain crept in. I saw that argument and understood it to be true. Then the argument of the wood's coloration of tone came in, it was a hard one to chew off as I was looking at it from a strictly scientific/electrical point of view - but wood does give color. Maple topped Lesters versus mahogany Lesters...not guitar for guitar, but model line for model line - macro - the maple topped Lesters have more zing...the mahogany topped Lester, darker.

So it's not an argument I want to believe, but it does seem to hold some water. And if any one could truly explain just how it is that a WOOD has an effect on what the pickup's pick up when a metal string vibrates over its flux field at 440 times a second - I'd be real pleased to read it. I also know there's a lot of chat about the effects of lacquer on a guitar's tone - granted, I'd be up for understanding this more fully too.

V.

 

[FriedChickenBandit]

I was talking to a custom guitar maker recently and he went off on a five minute rant about how guitar players are idiot snobs who think wood types make any difference in an electric guitar and that it couldn't be further from the truth.........

WTF....??? Does he build miniature model custom guitars for dashboards or the real deal? How the hell can anyone concur with this when the simplest of simple comparos (that being maple versus rosewood versus ebony fingerboards) shows differences that are so obvious? Soooooooooooooo, this custom guitar maker thinks plywood or pine would sound just as good as mahogany?

Clueless. But what gets me is he MAKES guitars?!?!?!??!?!
V.

A/B comparisons between anything that requires taking strings off is moot. Such slight differences in string and pickup height can cause huge tone variations. When we are talking about two different guitars the amount of variables exceeds in my opinion what any average human is capable of controlling, let alone to call it an A/B comparison.

Alright, I too concur with this - but overall, rather than the A/B approach, let's just look at the BIG PICTURE.... Overall, ebony and maple and rosewood fingerboards have a character to them that is both noticeable and unique unto each other. Across the board. So rather than look at it from a micro approach, I'm looking at it from a macro approach. And - this is coming from a guy who at one time felt very strongly that there is nothing but strings vibrating within a flux field which is being picked up by a conductor and sent to an amplifier...in which case, wood is not a variable whatsoever. But then the argument of resonance and sustain crept in. I saw that argument and understood it to be true. Then the argument of the wood's coloration of tone came in, it was a hard one to chew off as I was looking at it from a strictly scientific/electrical point of view - but wood does give color. Maple topped Lesters versus mahogany Lesters...not guitar for guitar, but model line for model line - macro - the maple topped Lesters have more zing...the mahogany topped Lester, darker.

So it's not an argument I want to believe, but it does seem to hold some water. And if any one could truly explain just how it is that a WOOD has an effect on what the pickup's pick up when a metal string vibrates over its flux field at 440 times a second - I'd be real pleased to read it. I also know there's a lot of chat about the effects of lacquer on a guitar's tone - granted, I'd be up for understanding this more fully too.

V.

I could care less if anyone uses pine wood for a body and mdf for a neck. It's your money..but I will NOT pay anything over $900-1k for Basswood. Now mahogany and ALDER I'll pay what it costs.

Yes, tone will always be in the hands, fingers and don't forget heart. Give me a tube screamer and a $70 practice amp and I'll play whatever style of music you want out of it.

 

[stephen sawall]

Lacquer removes resonance. I do not like what it does to tone at all.

 

[thegame]

And if any one could truly explain just how it is that a WOOD has an effect on what the pickup's pick up when a metal string vibrates over its flux field at 440 times a second - I'd be real pleased to read it. I also know there's a lot of chat about the effects of lacquer on a guitar's tone - granted, I'd be up for understanding this more fully too.

V.

Easy. The wood is ONE of the major factors determining the pattern of string vibration. All wood species resonate differently.

The finish can enhance, or deaden, that resonance.

 

[Digital Jams]

All I am going to say is that I watched one guy burn the joint down with incredible tone, hand the guitar cable to another guy and swear I would never buy that amp in a million years.

That's it.

 

[thegame]

"I sound like myself no matter what I play through".

So ?

EVH sounded like himself on 5150, OU812 with a buzzy over processed shit tone. Great playing, crap tone. Same guy, 1st album, incredible tone.

Billy Gibbons, great tone on Eliminator. Horrible, cheesy 80's Rockman tone on their later albums. I can easily recognize Billy's STYLE, despite him using a shitty TONE during that period.

Late amp tech Cesar Diaz, who helped SRV get his sound together, thought SRV's tone sounded like shit when he first heard him, despite the phenominal playing. Cesar easily distinguished tone vs style.

Personally, I can't make my hands make a Sovtek EL34 sound or feel like a Mullard El34. Or a greenback like a V30. Or a single coil like a humbucker.

See ?

 

[stephen sawall]

it's still in the hands, Eddie still sounds like Eddie on any rig SRV sounded like SRV on any rig,

But SRV and Eddie were not tones, they were STYLES. They sounded like them because of their styles, nothing to do with tone.

I humbly disagree or at least half do.

They definitely definitely have their own defining tones, but SRV is not going to have his Fender tone playing through a Peavey 5150. Same vice versa for Eddie.

I bet they would ..... maybe not the same, but I know I sound like me no matter what I play on. ..... and I have never seen anything different with any other player. In other words I do not think SRV is going to sound like EVH when plugged into a 5150.

Other people play on my rig .... they do not sound like me when playing the same riffs. Tone ....as in high, midrange, lows balance is very much in the fingers.

Aboslutely, SRV is definitely not going to sound like Eddie playing through a 5150, I didn't say he would. What I said was his tone is not going to sound like him playing through his Fenders. The fact that he would sound like SRV regardless of what he was playing through has nothing to do with the tones of the amps he is using and everything to do with how and what he plays. There are definitely variations in tonal character that can be achieved through things like picking styles and positions as well as right and left hand technique, but that is never going to change the fundamental sound of the amp/amps you are playing through. If this were the case then there would not be an amp business because I could get Marshall crunch, Vox Jangle, and Recto chunk just from changing my technique.

Again, everyone usually sounds like them when playing through just about anything and I maintain that that has NOTHING to do with tone and everything to do with your style.

I believe it goes beyond technique and style. I agree the amp being used well have a effect on the tone. But I also believe the mass, resonance and a number of other factors of the physical characteristics of the musician has just as much if not more effect on the final tone. No matter what amp is used .... less gain well almost always make these characteristics more apparent.

If three different guitar players play the same guitar and rig playing the same riffs and you can not hear differences I do not know what to tell you. ..... and like I said this goes beyond technique, style and the gear being used.

This reminds me of the classic "chicken or the egg" .... dinosaurs had eggs long before there was any chickens. ..... and there well always need to be a player before a amp. A amp makes no sound without a player.

 

[Heritage Softail]

The mood I am in when I walk in a bar has as much to do with how I may play, or how much I enjoy the band that plays. Give me a shitty ride up with a bitchin woman and EVH is sounding poor.

How many times do you practice at night, turn off the amp, get up the next day and your own rig 'seems' to sound different?

I did some digging on resonance in wood, wood parts, sympathetic vibrations, and phase cancellations of opposite hand pieces of wood in the same instrument top. It is way complicated..... In a nerdy way there are similarities in power supply harmonics regarding frequency cancellations and unisons creating resonance in frequency focus areas. A D28 was the item of study in one article. There were 4 main frequency resonance areas. And then there was a caveat for joint qualities. A quality joint can change alot in your perspective.

Too....late....to.....think.....

 

[slyvren]

You guys are all right and wrong. I see all the arguments, but here's the deal. Tone is a combination of things. Like pick, string, guitar, player, player's mood, how long it's been since the player got laid... Etc. It just so happens that your hands control a very important part of the tone. Don't believe me? Strum next to the bridge and next to the neck.. Notice something? The fundamental tone changes ALOT. There are so many micro variables out there it really doesn't matter. Your playing style changes on different rigs/diff channels/diff guitars anyways. Just play on as much stuff as possible and play as often as possible. Different gear can bring different things out of you that you never knew you could do. Play/experiment your heart out. If you're content with one setup that's fine, but think you're cheating yourself as an artist. It's living in one town and NEVER having left it. Explore the world to it's fullest and stay open minded the whole way. Musicians are supposed to be artists. Not many artisists that did the world any good only used one brush or one color... why argue over where tone comes from? Just play live create and share...
</rant>

 

[jesserides2005]

If so, mine sounds more like it comes from my arse.

I know the title is one of those cork sniffer discussions, but maybe we can put a different spin on it, like:

what gear gives you your core / defining / signature / whatever sounds that you dig? What gear helps you make your fav tones/timbres/sounds you dig most, i.e., your sound?


For me it is my crappy playing (see above, regarding arse tone), coupled with good gear (IMO), primariliy my Rickenbacker guitars into Vox amps for my dry sounds jangle, chime and twang; from clean, edge of break-up / hair, to crunch and power stage saturation. A JangleBox compressor is the only effect I use with this set-up. My other core set of tones comes from a low cost modeler wrapped (in bound is an initial series Vox Tonelab table top version that is replacing my ToneLab LE) with a G-System.

What about you?

Best quote I've ever read on a forum: "Shit in.............Shit Out"!!!!

End of thread, end of forums........... end of internet guitar wannabees!!

 

[annvin]

i have an old plywood kramer with a jb that sounds pretty damn good actually.

How old is it?