Tool's 10,000 Days vs. Metallica Death Magnetic production..

[EXPcustom]

Who gives a shit? You like the song - listen to it, you don't like it - don't. I never liked what Metallica played, make their production as good as you like, I won't listen to it anyway.

Bad production on DM really bothers me. I like to listen to the GH versions of the songs but the CD just sucks balls its somewhere on the floor of my car right now all scratched up and stepped on.

I haven't heard it, but it must be really bad if it bothers you. I mean how bad is it really? I've heard some unknown bands with cool music & bad production that nobody would like to spin in his car, but I doubt that a CD of a well known band would be that bad. I mean I haven't heard it, so if you say it is, then I'll have to trust you.

The songs are not bad but the production is horrible like mentioned before all the clipping and compression. If I could get the GH version on CD it would be in my player right now.

 

[Subclavian]

I've heard there is a Guitar Hero version of the full DM songs that sounds 100% better than the album did...

And the production on Lateralus gives me wood. Tool really knows how to bring out dynamics in their mixes.

I my kids have guitar hero metallica and it sounds waaaaay better than the actual cd.

In my personal opinion though, I'll choose 10k days in this discussion

sub

 

[steve_k]

Tool = quality in all aspects and don't need the hype.
Metallica = commercial in most aspects and love the hype.

Different bands, different genres, different quality of musicians.

Yup, I am all about Tool.

Steve

 

[Joeytpg]

I've never been able to get into Tool. to me it's just to complex-wannabe, and just lacking the commercial aspect of music I feel quite attracted to (yup, I like commercial music).

Great musicians and all, but just not into them. They have very good production though.

Death Magnetic, TO ME is a FANTASTIC album, songwriting/playing wise (Lars drumming could've been more varied, but we know Lars hasn't been a technical drummer since Justice). Now the production really sucks. Too compresed and it's clipping. I still enjoy a lot, since I listen to the Guitar Hero version.

 

[overthemountain]

I tend to agree a bit with this point... 10,000 is a great album and the guitar tones particularly on both this and Lateralus are incredible. I think DM though was going for a totally different, in your face-type vibe, and should be viewed in that context. Some really solid tunes on it imo, and the more I listen to it the less the clipping bothers me as I can get into the vibe of the album. Maybe i just need to listen to the GH version? If it has someone else handling drums & lead duties, maybe it really is superior??? LOL Anyway, I like em both but for sheer production quality I agree 10,000 wins.

I think it's worth mentioning they are both totally different production styles and get the impression their end goal was very different. I don't think Metallica was trying to achieve a big spacious vibe where all the instruments have their own room to breathe. Nor was Tool trying to have a loud, dry in your face production. I think the Black album and 10,000 would be more comparable in that regard. That said, I think 10,000 is an amazing production and is good example of what they wanted to achieve. I dig the music on Death Magnetic, but as a whole I've heard much better examples of dry, in your face records and I'm overall disappointed with the sound quality of the album. Just my $.02

 

[degenaro]

Interesting thread...
I figured I piss my 2 cents in the wind as well...

Obviously the Tool album has killer production values, but seriously are we really gonna discuss this? Who gives two shits whether DM is trashy sounding when the intent was to have it trashy sounding.
This place id full of guys that still haven't got over the fact that Nirvana killed the 80s...it's the song, not the widdles, not the production, it's the fucking song and how it's framed.

As for Metallica being shite musos...REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAALLY!?!?!?!
thus is the shit that kills me about forums, every one types one motherfucker of a world tour. Scott, bro I love ya...,but you haven't got a clue what you're talking about here. I hung with James and Lars during the recording for In Justice..,.,and I sat down with James and jammed with him in his pad, he is a bad motherfucker that mopped the floor with me any which way.

Ralph, Rubin is the shit...it's not that he's great at promotion but rather than he has a nose for what will be a big deal.
If I had ever any doubt about his ability of knowing how to frame a band listen to early Peppers and then listen to the Rubin stuff.

As for production making a good album great...no! A great song is great whether it's a field recordinbg of an acoustic guitar/vocal or a Roy Thomas baker produced 250 track backing vocal Queen like extravaganza.

 

[ctoddrun]

Definitely Tool, though the record itself is completely boring and was a huge letdown after Aenima and Lateralus.

+1, agreed. 2 decent songs, and a bunch of X-trip hum alongs

What are the two that you think are decent?




I'm a fanboy so I count about 8 that are outstanding.

 

[jkdsteve]

I'm gonna take a guess at Vicarious and The Pot.....although to be honest I usually fall asleep before I make it all the way through the disc..so am not that familiar with the back half

 

[EWSEthan]

Definitely Tool, though the record itself is completely boring and was a huge letdown after Aenima and Lateralus.

+1, agreed. 2 decent songs, and a bunch of X-trip hum alongs

What are the two that you think are decent?




I'm a fanboy so I count about 8 that are outstanding.

Man, Im actually scratching my head to try to remember 1 song on 10,000, let alone 2. I tried for the whole first month that album came out to try to like it, but my god was it boring.

 

[ctoddrun]

Man, Im actually scratching my head to try to remember 1 song on 10,000, let alone 2. I tried for the whole first month that album came out to try to like it, but my god was it boring.

No worries. Different strokes and all.


To me, the first two tracks are killer. I love that riff in Jambi (and I love looking at all the Youtube "Tool" guys who ALL play it wrong...).

3 & 4 are basically one long slow song. I initially would skip those two songs and go right into The Pot, but after repeated listenings I get it now. Acquired taste, I guess.

The Pot was one of my favs right away.

I would skip the two tracks that lead into Rosetta Stoned for the longest time. Then one day I guess I finally figured out where they were going with those. My hypothesis is that the track with the howling feedback and indian chanting was the Main Character tripping on LSD in the desert "just outside Area 51" and ultimately being abducted by aliens. Then the next track is the Main Character being admitted into the hospital and being so scared/whacked out that he was unresponsive... until he finally lets the Doctor know what happend, "all-right then, picture this if you will"...

Rosetta Stoned is one of my favorites just for the humor in the lyrics and the almost endless variations of the riffs. Very cool.

Right In Two is too freaking cool as well. My wife dug it because there is a tabla solo in the middle and it reminded her of Sgt. Pepper... I just dig it.


Anyway, no biggie if its not for you.

I'm headed to San Antonio on Friday to catch them live, then driving straight to Dallas the next day to see them again on Saturday. Not sure why they are playing so few dates on this "tour", but I'll be there.

 

[Joeytpg]

hey Ed, comment a bit more on that Hetfield playing encounter!

btw, Lars is one smart mother fucker..... I've read that he's REALLY smart, did you noticed this or just got the "Lars' an asshole" thing?

 

[degenaro]

hey Ed, comment a bit more on that Hetfield playing encounter!

btw, Lars is one smart mother fucker..... I've read that he's REALLY smart, did you noticed this or just got the "Lars' an asshole" thing?

Make a long story short...back in 88 when I was living in LAI was friends with a bunch of Swedish strippers (read I lived with them and they fed me, being that any muso without s stripper was homeless back thenz), when Metallica stayed in town I became friends with Fleming who was Lars' tech (actually I believe he still is). Anyways, we went out parting a few times with Lars, and james and one time we took the party back to his pad. He some Jackson King V there and those little Marshall Studio 12 stacks that always sounded like ass to me. Now I've sat with Yngwie and jammed and did just fine, but James just completely annihilated me. His right hand was serious, h owned the down beat. And is tone through that crap set-up beyond killed. Me...I sounded like I'd been playing for a few month. I was a complete embarrassment to the family.

 

[Joeytpg]

that's a nice story Ed. I'd livo to sit with you a couple of beers and share stories of my fav. band!

 

[Digital Jams]

I should have been more specific and to a point I understand being brought to the table by Ed.

Mid 80s I agree that Het had an incredible right wrist second to none and yes Lars was on his game while he was still hungry, I feel imo the past 10 years they have been mailing it in living off those years gone by. I have seen nothing the past 10 years that have made me look at them any different. I stay out of 99% of these threads but I still do get sucked in to mctallica threads.

I still stand behind my comments about the bands today though, imo Tool are far better at their craft than mctallica today.

 

[degenaro]

I should have been more specific and to a point I understand being brought to the table by Ed.

Mid 80s I agree that Het had an incredible right wrist second to none and yes Lars was on his game while he was still hungry, I feel imo the past 10 years they have been mailing it in living off those years gone by. I have seen nothing the past 10 years that have made me look at them any different. I stay out of 99% of these threads but I still do get sucked in to mctallica threads.

I still stand behind my comments about the bands today though, imo Tool are far better at their craft than mctallica today.

Fair enough...

 

[mctallica1]

Very interesting thread


Tool is one of those very good bands that just never grabbed me (U2 is in this category too)...I know they are good musicians and put out good music, but it does nothing for me. I don't care how good the production is...something about the music has to "move" me and theirs doesn't. If you dig it, very cool

Metallica, on the other hand, still kicks my ass. I have been a fan since I first got my grubby paws on a bootleg of No Life til Leather.....wanna talk about CRAP production ...but the music grabbed me and hasn't let go.


I hear all the negatives about the DM production, but I love that album. Fact is, other than Opeth's Watershed, I listen to DM more than any other album on a regular basis.


As for the "mailing it in" comments about Metallica, I call bullshit. I have seen them in concert well over 50 times....maybe even 100 and they still bring it live. Hell they are a little older than me and I am not sure I could bring the intensity they do for the length of their shows.



I said it before and I will say it again. James Hetfield is THE reason I picked up a guitar over 20 years ago and he still inspires me on a regular basis

 

[Joeytpg]

Very interesting thread


Tool is one of those very good bands that just never grabbed me (U2 is in this category too)...I know they are good musicians and put out good music, but it does nothing for me. I don't care how good the production is...something about the music has to "move" me and theirs doesn't. If you dig it, very cool

Metallica, on the other hand, still kicks my ass. I have been a fan since I first got my grubby paws on a bootleg of No Life til Leather.....wanna talk about CRAP production ...but the music grabbed me and hasn't let go.


I hear all the negatives about the DM production, but I love that album. Fact is, other than Opeth's Watershed, I listen to DM more than any other album on a regular basis.


As for the "mailing it in" comments about Metallica, I call bullshit. I have seen them in concert well over 50 times....maybe even 100 and they still bring it live. Hell they are a little older than me and I am not sure I could bring the intensity they do for the length of their shows.



I said it before and I will say it again. James Hetfield is THE reason I picked up a guitar over 20 years ago and he still inspires me on a regular basis

man! +1!

 

[fearhk213]

James still has a monster right hand. I wish I could find the video that I saw a while back with him in the studio for DM. It was really short & I can't remember what he played, but I was like WTF when I saw how fluid yet powerful it was. Yeah I know there are cats that can down pick as fast and can speed pick faster, but there's more to it than that. He definitely had that extra fire.

 

[Joeytpg]

is this it?

 

[stephen sawall]

That's crazy Ed .... I was living with two sisters that were dancer's in 88. In Skyway across from the bowling ally where I ate breakfast with Jimi's dad a few times. That was the 5 years when I was always living in a party house. I must agree about James right hand, it's a machine.

I have a copy of 10,000 around here some place. I do not think I ever made it all the way to the end of the disc ? The last Metallica album I was into was Master.

Still like seeing both live.

Both of these band have had more for me a long time ago.