Trump tells Christians they won't have to vote after this election

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1. The modern left.
Meaning everyone who's on the left in modern times? Or are you trying to be funny?
2. Which is why I Included "or equate"
The only thing I was equating was the non-uniformity of both parties membership, not the relative goodness or badness of party member actions beyond what's required to classify things as reprehensible or not. But it was meant only as an example of another party with a mixed bag, and not to say "see, the right does bad things too so the left is justified" or anything like that, and we've gotten perhaps a bit too hung up on it. The short story is that I don't think everyone on the left is a piece of trash.
3. There are no "some" at this point. Anyone who plays along, votes for it, down plays it, or even simply agrees to something because "my party" is culpable, imo. Modern "liberal" movements are anything but virtuous. They aren't about equality. They're about domination of mind and will. There's no supremacist boogieman loading people on trains to camps. There's no Hitler. It's all a fantasy that has gone too far.
So in an earlier statement about "garbage humans" you were referring to everyone on the left in modern times?
Not entirely sure which portion this is for, maybe my whole reply? Probably doesn't matter.
Look, I don't really care about most of what the right is doing.
I didn't say that you should, sorry if it seemed like I was implying that.
Modern "liberalism" has cried wolf so many times
On this I agree. E.g., one prolific OTC poster's constant stream of apparently nothingburger videos. Maybe some aren't nothing, but 2 out of 2 that I've looked into have been, so not worth my time to look at the rest if those two are an example of what he judges to be trustworthy.
But not at the cost of others.
Agreed.

Anyhow, I think our disagreement lay in what criteria we were using to define "garbage humans." If I'm understanding you correctly, you find many (all?) of the policies/practices currently pushed by people on the left to be morally bankrupt and so anyone supporting the left in any way is classified as a garbage human because they in some way (large or small) support immoral stuff.

Meanwhile, I was reading "garbage human" as something akin to "absolutely no value whatsoever, and a rabid idiot." Based on my personal experience, it is completely incorrect to call everyone on the left that, which is why I took issue with the your post that I initially replied to. Now I'm not certain I agree with what I think your definition of "garbage human" is either, but I don't care to argue definitions right now so I'm going to step out. Thanks for the discussion.
 
I really don’t like the left/right descriptors. And liberal/conservative is useless these days too. Really, the majority of politicians on either side are centrist/corporatist. The supporters are a mixed bag that unfortunately find themselves funneled into one or the other side, which is all really the same side — the war-party, the uniparty, etc. People on any side need to wake up: left or right, none of these parasites give a shit about what’s important to you. They just talk to your values to get your vote.
 
I really don’t like the left/right descriptors. And liberal/conservative is useless these days too. Really, the majority of politicians on either side are centrist/corporatist. The supporters are a mixed bag that unfortunately find themselves funneled into one or the other side, which is all really the same side — the war-party, the uniparty, etc. People on any side need to wake up: left or right, none of these parasites give a shit about what’s important to you. They just talk to your values to get your vote.

enjoy the decline.
 
Meaning everyone who's on the left in modern times? Or are you trying to be funny?

The only thing I was equating was the non-uniformity of both parties membership, not the relative goodness or badness of party member actions beyond what's required to classify things as reprehensible or not. But it was meant only as an example of another party with a mixed bag, and not to say "see, the right does bad things too so the left is justified" or anything like that, and we've gotten perhaps a bit too hung up on it. The short story is that I don't think everyone on the left is a piece of trash.

So in an earlier statement about "garbage humans" you were referring to everyone on the left in modern times?

Not entirely sure which portion this is for, maybe my whole reply? Probably doesn't matter.

I didn't say that you should, sorry if it seemed like I was implying that.

On this I agree. E.g., one prolific OTC poster's constant stream of apparently nothingburger videos. Maybe some aren't nothing, but 2 out of 2 that I've looked into have been, so not worth my time to look at the rest if those two are an example of what he judges to be trustworthy.

Agreed.

Anyhow, I think our disagreement lay in what criteria we were using to define "garbage humans." If I'm understanding you correctly, you find many (all?) of the policies/practices currently pushed by people on the left to be morally bankrupt and so anyone supporting the left in any way is classified as a garbage human because they in some way (large or small) support immoral stuff.

Meanwhile, I was reading "garbage human" as something akin to "absolutely no value whatsoever, and a rabid idiot." Based on my personal experience, it is completely incorrect to call everyone on the left that, which is why I took issue with the your post that I initially replied to. Now I'm not certain I agree with what I think your definition of "garbage human" is either, but I don't care to argue definitions right now so I'm going to step out. Thanks for the discussion.

I'm not here to justify my views, explain to the offended what words mean to me, or agree that personal views have requirements imposed or needed in order to classify anything as anything. That's actually pretty scary. If one person finds Trump or Biden reprehensible, they don't need to check a predetermined box written by someone else to feel that way. They don't need to agree with me and vice versa.

If someone votes for a Nazi because they're a hateful person or they vote for a Nazi because they are being offered clean drinking water, they're still voting for a Nazi. It's really that simple with me. ?‍♀️ Am I saying that person is a Nazi? No, and it doesn't matter if they are or aren't. They know the platform. They know the policies. They know the lies and bullshit. They are culpable. I'm simply not going to play along or support it at any level.
 
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I'm not here to justify my views,
Well, what are you here for then? I'm here to express my opinions (clarifying as necessary), and to try to understand other's opinions, maybe even learn a thing or two. Hence why I'm asking questions, and occasionally looking into the schlock videos/articles posted in OTC to see if I misjudged them. If you're saying that you don't want to explain your opinions though (are you?), I'll bugger off.

Also, if my questions are coming off as overly confrontational or interrogative, say so and I'll try to improve on that metric since that is not my intent. I am trying to be direct though.
explain to the offended what words mean to me,
1) Disagreement ≠ offense, if you're referring to me.
2) A common understanding of terms is necessary for effective two-way communication, hence my requests for clarification when I think a term plays a key role and that I might not understand how you're using it.

Again, if you're saying you don't want to do any explaining (?), I'll bugger off.
or agree that personal views have requirements imposed or needed in order to classify anything as anything. That's actually pretty scary.
Not sure what you mean by this, or how it relates to what I said. Either you misread or I misspoke. Could you maybe rephrase and/or clarify?
If one person finds Trump or Biden reprehensible, they don't need to check a predetermined box written by someone else to feel that way. They don't need to agree with me and vice versa.
I didn't say they did, so I'm not sure what this is in relation to.
If someone votes for a Nazi because they're a hateful person or they vote for a Nazi because they are being offered clean drinking water, they're still voting for a Nazi. It's really that simple with me. ?‍♀️ Am I saying that person is a Nazi? No, and it doesn't matter if they are or aren't. They know the platform. They know the policies. They know the lies and bullshit. They are culpable. I'm simply not going to play along or support it at any level.
I think this is related to my comments on the phrase "garbage humans," and is confirming what I summarized your position as, which was "supporting/voting for things I find morally bankrupt = garbage human being." Correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree that they are culpable, and it brings to mind Martin Niemöller and his confession of culpability in the Holocaust as expressed in his oft-repeated "First they came for the communists..." speech and blurb.

Now I said I don't want to debate what "garbage humans" should mean, and I hold to that, but I'm open to hearing what you mean by it if you're willing to explain, hence why I'm still engaging with this line of discussion.
 
Well, what are you here for then? I'm here to express my opinions (clarifying as necessary), and to try to understand other's opinions, maybe even learn a thing or two. Hence why I'm asking questions, and occasionally looking into the schlock videos/articles posted in OTC to see if I misjudged them. If you're saying that you don't want to explain your opinions though (are you?), I'll bugger off.

Also, if my questions are coming off as overly confrontational or interrogative, say so and I'll try to improve on that metric since that is not my intent. I am trying to be direct though.

1) Disagreement ≠ offense, if you're referring to me.
2) A common understanding of terms is necessary for effective two-way communication, hence my requests for clarification when I think a term plays a key role and that I might not understand how you're using it.

Again, if you're saying you don't want to do any explaining (?), I'll bugger off.

Not sure what you mean by this, or how it relates to what I said. Either you misread or I misspoke. Could you maybe rephrase and/or clarify?

I didn't say they did, so I'm not sure what this is in relation to.

I think this is related to my comments on the phrase "garbage humans," and is confirming what I summarized your position as, which was "supporting/voting for things I find morally bankrupt = garbage human being." Correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree that they are culpable, and it brings to mind Martin Niemöller and his confession of culpability in the Holocaust as expressed in his oft-repeated "First they came for the communists..." speech and blurb.

Now I said I don't want to debate what "garbage humans" should mean, and I hold to that, but I'm open to hearing what you mean by it if you're willing to explain, hence why I'm still engaging with this line of discussion.
Every Dictionary, circa 2015

Garbage Human; noun

Those lacking in the grassroots advancement of humanity, cultures, and peace and without interruption or undue disrespect to existing cultures.
Those who speak for people they aren't.
Those who use political correctness or identity politics as a guise for false virtue, tokenism, division, and racism.
Those who exaggerate and lie to promote teribble agendas.
Those who are led by leaders less intelligent than they are. At least on average.
Those who promote things simply because they either don't understand the realities of the consequences. Often due to immaturity.
Those who promote terrible eventuals out of fear or fear of reprisal from not playing along.
Those who promote terrible eventuals out of spite.

...Page 9,001:
Those who strive for edginess over morality. They have made this the core of who they are.
Disrespectful, ignorant, and confident in their individualism.
The list goes on to even more dangerous eventuals when considering the big picture.
Those who either don't realize or pretend to not realize these traits in themselves or others.

Obviously it's not just one side of humanity that has the capacity to carry any of these traits, but there is only one side that I see as dangerous to themselves and others whether through promotion of laws and policy or direct action. It's not the right, at least as a whole. The traits seem to incur from a lack of confidence, emotional maturity, and/or wisdom. They're still humans. I don't feel that most of them see their actions as sinister. They've just been tricked over their life to believe in fairy tales.

Many of those fairy tales are dangerous and I see as the bulk causation of our lack of unity. Unfortunately, if someone is too lazy to look behind the curtains and see the wizard for who they are, than I have no sympathy for them in return. Nor should anyone in today's age of information access, imo. It's been going on for a while and it's extremely obvious. Yet, people will rabidly latch on to easily dissaprovable/over exaggerated/out of context/cherrypicked bullshit and cause social chaos in many forms in order to change the rules to benefit no one but the people pulling the strings.

I agree with a great many of the core ideas these people have, as do most people I gather. The ones I don't agree with seem dangerous to extraordinarily dangerous in either the short term, long term, or both. Their dangerous ideas are far more dangerous than I feel that they realize. Policies and laws, promotion of social, cultural, and human genocides, eugenics, ego over morality, so on while believing the oppsoite is ocurring. I feel that most of it is not grassroot beliefs, but propaganda and social sabotoge.

You have to understand that I don't go out of my way to hate these people. That would be a waste of energy and life. I've just watched a monster evolve over my life from hippies, granolas, and those who want equality into corpo tech overlords, grifters, propagandists, and those who want imbalance to serve their personal goals. Out of control, corrupt, and morally bankrupt. Those who praise false ideals or present themselves in manners they are not just to manipulate and control social policy, morality, and liberties. No thanks, none for me.
 
I'm not making any value judgments on it I'm just saying he knows how to connect with common working Americans. For whatever reason he has the ability to speak their language, and is then perceived as one of them by those people even though he is a billionaire. Meanwhile the Yale and Harvard grad lawyer-politician doesn't really have that connection. Ivy league 30 years ago was like home ownership today, out of reach for most people. A world outside the working class. Trump has the political silver tongue. Says enough things right to enough right people to gain a ton of popularity and a rabid fanbase. It doesn't have to be high on actual content for that to happen.
Smartest thing you’ve ever said. Only thing I’d change, is he “says enough things wrong”.

You are 100% correct. Dems use language that isn’t accessible. And then, many of them have a tendency to get angry at working class folks that have chosen conservatism for not understanding them. It’s insane. Dems need a true working class figure that doesn’t talk down to people.
 
The democrats actually used to be the party of the working class.
 
Smartest thing you’ve ever said. Only thing I’d change, is he “says enough things wrong”.

You are 100% correct. Dems use language that isn’t accessible. And then, many of them have a tendency to get angry at working class folks that have chosen conservatism for not understanding them. It’s insane. Dems need a true working class figure that doesn’t talk down to people.
Politically you are probably correct; but I also think that if a candidate ever came out and spoke eloquently and succinctly about important shit, instead of slinging tabloid bullshit, he/she would also grab the attention of a lot of people.
 
Smartest thing you’ve ever said. Only thing I’d change, is he “says enough things wrong”.

You are 100% correct. Dems use language that isn’t accessible. And then, many of them have a tendency to get angry at working class folks that have chosen conservatism for not understanding them. It’s insane. Dems need a true working class figure that doesn’t talk down to people.
Thanks Beater and good morning. I meant "says enough things right", meaning, what that group of people want to hear, not that any of it is right. As I said I wasn't passing judgments. As for the democrats I just think they lost the plot when they stopped supporting small farms and working and middle class people, which actually are the backbone of this country IMO. Both sides sold out to big ag starting in the 90's. And both sides allowed to many manufacturing jobs to go to abroad starting in the late 60's...
 
Smartest thing you’ve ever said. Only thing I’d change, is he “says enough things wrong”.

You are 100% correct. Dems use language that isn’t accessible. And then, many of them have a tendency to get angry at working class folks that have chosen conservatism for not understanding them. It’s insane. Dems need a true working class figure that doesn’t talk down to people.
This would be a good start to get back to reality

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Screenshot 2024-07-30 234329.png
 
Every Dictionary, circa 2015

Garbage Human; noun

Those lacking in the grassroots advancement of humanity, cultures, and peace and without interruption or undue disrespect to existing cultures.
Those who speak for people they aren't.
Those who use political correctness or identity politics as a guise for false virtue, tokenism, division, and racism.
Those who exaggerate and lie to promote teribble agendas.
Those who are led by leaders less intelligent than they are. At least on average.
Those who promote things simply because they either don't understand the realities of the consequences. Often due to immaturity.
Those who promote terrible eventuals out of fear or fear of reprisal from not playing along.
Those who promote terrible eventuals out of spite.

...Page 9,001:
Those who strive for edginess over morality. They have made this the core of who they are.
Disrespectful, ignorant, and confident in their individualism.
The list goes on to even more dangerous eventuals when considering the big picture.
Those who either don't realize or pretend to not realize these traits in themselves or others.

Obviously it's not just one side of humanity that has the capacity to carry any of these traits, but there is only one side that I see as dangerous to themselves and others whether through promotion of laws and policy or direct action. It's not the right, at least as a whole. The traits seem to incur from a lack of confidence, emotional maturity, and/or wisdom. They're still humans. I don't feel that most of them see their actions as sinister. They've just been tricked over their life to believe in fairy tales.

Many of those fairy tales are dangerous and I see as the bulk causation of our lack of unity. Unfortunately, if someone is too lazy to look behind the curtains and see the wizard for who they are, than I have no sympathy for them in return. Nor should anyone in today's age of information access, imo. It's been going on for a while and it's extremely obvious. Yet, people will rabidly latch on to easily dissaprovable/over exaggerated/out of context/cherrypicked bullshit and cause social chaos in many forms in order to change the rules to benefit no one but the people pulling the strings.

I agree with a great many of the core ideas these people have, as do most people I gather. The ones I don't agree with seem dangerous to extraordinarily dangerous in either the short term, long term, or both. Their dangerous ideas are far more dangerous than I feel that they realize. Policies and laws, promotion of social, cultural, and human genocides, eugenics, ego over morality, so on while believing the oppsoite is ocurring. I feel that most of it is not grassroot beliefs, but propaganda and social sabotoge.

You have to understand that I don't go out of my way to hate these people. That would be a waste of energy and life. I've just watched a monster evolve over my life from hippies, granolas, and those who want equality into corpo tech overlords, grifters, propagandists, and those who want imbalance to serve their personal goals. Out of control, corrupt, and morally bankrupt. Those who praise false ideals or present themselves in manners they are not just to manipulate and control social policy, morality, and liberties. No thanks, none for me.
I see, thanks for the thoughtful response.
 
The democrats actually used to be the party of the working class.

Who claims to support opportunity and at the same time hates the minimum wage and unions? The Republican party.

The opportunity to work in hazardous workplaces for crappy pay is not is the the kind of opportunity Americans deserve.
 
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And what have democrats done for the unions ? Besides make their leaders rich and give them a lot less places to work ?
 
Who claims to support opportunity and at the same time hates the minimum wage and unions? The Republican party.

The opportunity to work in hazardous workplaces for crappy pay is not is the the kind of opportunity Americans deserve.
How's that fast food $20 minimum wage working out in California so far?

Only idiots didn't see the unintended consequences. Restaurants open for decades closing, workers losing their jobs or hours,...

Higher human worker costs = incentive for AI and robotics.
 
How's that fast food $20 minimum wage working out in California so far?

Only idiots didn't see the unintended consequences. Restaurants open for decades closing, workers losing their jobs or hours,...

Higher human worker costs = incentive for AI and robotics.
There was no hindsight 20/20 here. They have no excuse since it was already occurring elsewhere. I think it was Sea-Tac here that first did it, followed by the rest of the state. $1 menu is now $5 menu. One of our businesses went from front of house service to wholesale only, because we really didn't feel like paying people $18/hour to stand around on their phones and ignore or be obnoxious to customers. We should have done it a long time ago with that particular place. Profits increased substantially and we donate more to adoption costs for couples as a result.
 
Who claims to support opportunity and at the same time hates the minimum wage and unions? The Republican party.

The opportunity to work in hazardous workplaces for crappy pay is not is the the kind of opportunity Americans deserve.
It's a mistake to think that a minimum wage is a rising tide that lifts all boats. No, it’s a higher hurdle that less productive workers will not be able to jump. Economics 101 bro.

And tell me a hazardous job that does not pay more than a comparably skilled job that is safe.
 
It's a mistake to think that a minimum wage is a rising tide that lifts all boats. No, it’s a higher hurdle that less productive workers will not be able to jump. Economics 101 bro.

Translation: damn, what a shame that I can't pay people 50 cents an hour.

And tell me a hazardous job that does not pay more than a comparably skilled job that is safe.

Again, the opportunity to work in hazardous workplaces for crappy pay is not is the the kind of opportunity Americans deserve.



 
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