Tube Replacement

[GuitarGoat]

I picked up a Mesa/Boogie .50 Caliber + the other day with a Recto 2x12 cab. It sounded really good in the store and now I've got it home and I've noticed the top end is a little harsh on the lead channel (kind of gritty sounding if that makes sense). Should I get some new tubes and see if replacing tubes helps? Either that or it's just the room I'm playing in or my guitars...Any help is appreciated.

Jake

 

[blackba]

Awe the old, sounded better in the store than at home. Run into that many times.

For harsh treble, I find that preamp tubes generally help. I would get a few different brands from Doug at dougstubes.com and try swapping them in the slot that is first for the lead channel. It should say in the manual roughly what each preamp tube does....

 

[JakeAC5253]

Did you play it through the Recto 2x12 at the store? Did you play it with your guitar at the store? How big is the room you are playing it in? Hardwood floors? Rug? Playing it on the floor or is it elevated? In a corner or isolated from the walls?

 

[GuitarGoat]

Did you play it through the Recto 2x12 at the store? Did you play it with your guitar at the store? How big is the room you are playing it in? Hardwood floors? Rug? Playing it on the floor or is it elevated? In a corner or isolated from the walls?

Same cab, different guitar. I was thinking it might be the guitar at the store was lower output or something, but it's kind of harsh with all my guitars, no matter if it's my EMGs, Gibson pickups, Dimarzios, Duncans, or anything. I've got it in my room which is pretty small. I don't know exact dimensions but the room at the store was bigger. It's a carpeted floor and the amp is on the floor. It's up against a wall (the back is against a wall). Any suggestions? I'm going to go look for tubes today during my lunch break.

 

[D-Rock]

It's most likely your room that the amp is in. Small rooms can be rough on the ears with high gain amps. The V30's are probably adding to the problem as well.
Not sure a preamp tube swap will cure the problem, but I would try some JJ ECC83S's, which have a rich sounding gain but are darker sounding than most other preamp tubes.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Same cab, different guitar. I was thinking it might be the guitar at the store was lower output or something, but it's kind of harsh with all my guitars, no matter if it's my EMGs, Gibson pickups, Dimarzios, Duncans, or anything. I've got it in my room which is pretty small. I don't know exact dimensions but the room at the store was bigger. It's a carpeted floor and the amp is on the floor. It's up against a wall (the back is against a wall). Any suggestions? I'm going to go look for tubes today during my lunch break.

Tubes are cheap, but good technique is cheaper. Try moving the cab to a better spot in the room. Away from the walls and pointing into the meat of the room. Get the cab off of the floor if you can. If you are trying to get a good tone and you have the amp turned up quite a bit, keep the head off of the cab or put something which is vibration absorbent between the head and cab. If you have the gain quite high, try backing it off a tad and hitting the input with a clean boost or overdrive pedal set to clean boost. If all of this fails to reproduce good sound, try moving the entire amp to a larger room and repeat the process. Still no dice? Maybe your cables are bad?

 

[GuitarGoat]

It's most likely your room that the amp is in. Small rooms can be rough on the ears with high gain amps. The V30's are probably adding to the problem as well.
Not sure a preamp tube swap will cure the problem, but I would try some JJ ECC83S's, which have a rich sounding gain but are darker sounding than most other preamp tubes.

Thanks for the advice. I'll check out those tubes sometime.

Same cab, different guitar. I was thinking it might be the guitar at the store was lower output or something, but it's kind of harsh with all my guitars, no matter if it's my EMGs, Gibson pickups, Dimarzios, Duncans, or anything. I've got it in my room which is pretty small. I don't know exact dimensions but the room at the store was bigger. It's a carpeted floor and the amp is on the floor. It's up against a wall (the back is against a wall). Any suggestions? I'm going to go look for tubes today during my lunch break.

Tubes are cheap, but good technique is cheaper. Try moving the cab to a better spot in the room. Away from the walls and pointing into the meat of the room. Get the cab off of the floor if you can. If you are trying to get a good tone and you have the amp turned up quite a bit, keep the head off of the cab or put something which is vibration absorbent between the head and cab. If you have the gain quite high, try backing it off a tad and hitting the input with a clean boost or overdrive pedal set to clean boost. If all of this fails to reproduce good sound, try moving the entire amp to a larger room and repeat the process. Still no dice? Maybe your cables are bad?

I'm going to try the amp in a different room and all that tonight or in the next couple of days. I've got the gain at about halfway I think, so it's definitely not maxed out. A clean boost works pretty well with the amp I've noticed, but I haven't liked the sound from my Tube Screamer with it. My cables are all fine (I checked this yesterday thinking it could've been the culprit). I'll just try it in a different room tonight and hopefully that'll help. I'm also going to look around for tubes as well. The worst that could happen there is I have extra tubes when I'll actually need them

 

[scottcrud]

I've got two .50Cal+'s, love them! Try this, V-1 and V-3 are the Lead channel preamp tubes. Mess around with those, I use NOS tubes in those positions. Old NOS Teslas, and a Mazda Bugle Boys are my current favorites, Although RFT's and old RCA's and GE's work great too.
Another trick I use is that I put a 12at7 in V-5 (the Phase inverter). Takes a little of the sizzle out and provides clarity.

 

[JakeAC5253]

I've got two .50Cal+'s, love them! Try this, V-1 and V-3 are the Lead channel preamp tubes. Mess around with those, I use NOS tubes in those positions. Old NOS Teslas, and a Mazda Bugle Boys are my current favorites, Although RFT's and old RCA's and GE's work great too.
Another trick I use is that I put a 12at7 in V-5 (the Phase inverter). Takes a little of the sizzle out and provides clarity.

Doug from Doug's Tubes told me that you shouldn't put a 12at7 where a 12ax7 is supposed to go. He says that they are wired differently. His advice was to try a 12ay7 instead.

 

[scottcrud]

Mike B. from Boogie told me to try it...Who's this Doug again? I know who Doug is and have bought tubes from him, but I think I'll listen to the guy who works on and helps design Boogies.

 

[GuitarGoat]

I thought V5 was for the effects loop?

 

[fishyfishfish]

Try a different speaker. I had tons of Boogies, and to tame the raspy's I changed out speakers more than tubes.
Room make a big diff. as well.

 

[luxxtone]

Try a different speaker. I had tons of Boogies, and to tame the raspy's I changed out speakers more than tubes.
Room make a big diff. as well.

+1000. Speakers make the biggest difference in the tone of an amp, much more than tubes. Tubes will change your tone some obviously....but different speakers will DRASTICALLY make a difference, for better or worse. Try any amp with a 4x12 loaded with vintage 30's, then try the same amp with 75 watters, then Greenbacks. It will sound like a different amp through each cab. I wish I would have tried different speakers back in the day instead of just offing nice amps because of some frequency I didn't like, thinking it was only the amp doing it!

 

[GuitarGoat]

Try a different speaker. I had tons of Boogies, and to tame the raspy's I changed out speakers more than tubes.
Room make a big diff. as well.

+1000. Speakers make the biggest difference in the tone of an amp, much more than tubes. Tubes will change your tone some obviously....but different speakers will DRASTICALLY make a difference, for better or worse. Try any amp with a 4x12 loaded with vintage 30's, then try the same amp with 75 watters, then Greenbacks. It will sound like a different amp through each cab. I wish I would have tried different speakers back in the day instead of just offing nice amps because of some frequency I didn't like, thinking it was only the amp doing it!

Maybe I'll take the head to some music stores to try this...you guys convince me to spend too much money sometimes

That being said, I went to a music store yesterday and they suggested an SPAX7-A for V1 and I got some Mesa 12AX7s to have spares/maybe swap some out to see if it matters. I went to replace V1 last night and it was already an SPAX7! Older but that's what it said on it. I look at V2, same thing. Anyone have experience with these tubes? I'm just curious why the store would suggest one for the V1 position and then they're already in more than just that position...hmmm...

 

[D-Rock]

SPAX7..? Is that the Mesa rebranded pre's?

Remember that the same tube model will not always yeild identical results. I had a Mesa 12AX7 that sounded bland and not very musical. (The tube was fine, no noise and had regular volume) I swapped it with another Mesa tube that was exactly the same and it sounded very nice, so it currently sits in my amps V3 spot.

If you do decide to start exploring speakers, maybe consider swapping just one out of your Mesa 2x12. Something with smoother highend and a bit less mids than the V30.....like the WGS ET-65.

 

[GuitarGoat]

SPAX7..? Is that the Mesa rebranded pre's?

Remember that the same tube model will not always yeild identical results. I had a Mesa 12AX7 that sounded bland and not very musical. (The tube was fine, no noise and had regular volume) I swapped it with another Mesa tube that was exactly the same and it sounded very nice, so it currently sits in my amps V3 spot.

If you do decide to start exploring speakers, maybe consider swapping just one out of your Mesa 2x12. Something with smoother highend and a bit less mids than the V30.....like the WGS ET-65.

They're the "special" preamp tubes. They've also got the standard 12AX7s. I think the special ones are supposed to be quieter? We'll see tonight when I get to play it.

Thanks for the speaker suggestion. I'll keep it in mind.

 

[GuitarGoat]

So I finally got to play...the SPAX7 doesn't even work!

There is good news though. I replaced V3 with one of the standard Mesa tubes I bought and moved the V3 that was in there (a Mesa 7025) to V1 and I think the high end nastiness is gone. Or it was just my ears. I'm not sure but I'm really digging this amp now. It's really sensitive to my guitars though so I kind of have to readjust things a little bit each time I switch. Oh well.

Oh yea, and now I realized that my playing is really sloppy lately because I haven't been doing as much high gain stuff. Looks like someone needs to practice...

 

[JakeAC5253]

Oh yea, and now I realized that my playing is really sloppy lately because I haven't been doing as much high gain stuff. Looks like someone needs to practice...

A Mesa will do that to you

Words out as to whether or not that's a good thing...

 

[GuitarGoat]

Oh yea, and now I realized that my playing is really sloppy lately because I haven't been doing as much high gain stuff. Looks like someone needs to practice...

A Mesa will do that to you

Words out as to whether or not that's a good thing...

I feel like it'll be good. It can only make me better I'd think!

 

[thunda]

the tone controls work differently on Mesa amps as well. Whichever is turned the highest (Bass, Mid, Treble) will be the dominant tone and the others will be diminished. Try spending some time playing the amp and twiddling the tone knobs until you see how the amp reacts. It took me a while with my Heartbreaker but I found myriad tones abound.

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