Tube/Solid State Rectification

[Iron Dog]

If a tube amp has a solid state rectifier, does it qualify as an all-tube head?

I have two rigs right now, which sound great, but are not all tube and I want an all tube amp, I'm trying out an El Diablo 60 head and it has a solid state rectifier, which has me wondering if it's an all tube head.

How much effect does the rectifier make on the sound?

Does the Mesa Rectifier use a tube rectifier, it seems to show both on their web site.

I may be over-thinking this

 

[hopkinWFG]

mesa rectifier is famous for their sag tone ? which is strictly all tube running 6l6 and 12ax7 ... not a mesa fan here never own one too but have gone over their specs lately... generally a diode formation of a full wave cycle changes the input AC to DC after being step down by the power tranny...while most amp uses diodes... but few have tge option ti choose from to switch from diodes to tube rectification which will sounds warmer and slight compression ... still an amp which runs a set of power tubes and series of preamp tubes are true enough to be call an all tube amp. correct me if am wrong ..

 

[Iron Dog]

Thanks for the reply, I'm not sure if tube rectification defines whether an amp is a tube amp or an all-tube amp and how many other tube amps use solid state rectification?

Again not sure how big a deal this is too an amp and if this something I should be concerned with or not.

 

[benduncan]

It just depends on how literal you take the term "all tube". Though, I don't think that you can make a guitar amp using only tubes

Kidding aside, I think that most people are referring to the pre/power amp when they say all tube.

When using my Triple rec, I always have it in tube rectifier mode. I've never played another amp with a tube rectifier

 

[Iron Dog]

http://www.soldano.com/amp-help/tube-vs ... ectifiers/

Interesting reading, I guess if Solid State Rectifiers are good enough for Soldano, then they are more than good enough for me.

 

[phil b]

With the Mesa you do have the option for either tube or ss when using the rectifier section. Mose tube amps use a ss rectifier so you could say they are all tube, meaning tube pre AND power section. Best way to describe the difference would be if your playing mostly strumming, open chords {Green Day, Foo Fighters etc} then the tube rec. sounds great. If your doing lots of low E triplet type of stuff then your better off with a ss rec. as it tightens things up. Its useful to have the option, but not something that would make or break me buying a particular amp.

 

[C1-ocaster]

If a tube amp has a solid state rectifier, does it qualify as an all-tube head?

I have two rigs right now, which sound great, but are not all tube and I want an all tube amp, I'm trying out an El Diablo 60 head and it has a solid state rectifier, which has me wondering if it's an all tube head.

How much effect does the rectifier make on the sound?

Does the Mesa Rectifier use a tube rectifier, it seems to show both on their web site.

I may be over-thinking this

Imo, yes, an amp with an SS rectifier is still an "all tube amp".
The reason is because the amps tone is still coming from pre and power tubes, along with a tube phase inverter.
The rectifier has more an electronic job to do not so much related to tone, but, does affect the amps "feel".

If you want to try out and hear what tube, SS, or a combination will do to the feel of an amp, try out a Bugera TriRec head.
It has 2 rectifier tubes, and 1 SS rectifier, and you can select either/or, or a combination of tube w/SS.

I picked up a TriRec a bit over a month ago to give it a go, and it's actually a pretty decent amp. It's a take on a Mesa amp, but has some of it's own cool features.
It has a lot of tone shaping controls, 3 fully independent channels each with their own gain, eq, and reverb settings.
It's a good amp by which to hear and feel the difference between rectifiers and whether it makes a difference to you.

For me, I like the combo of tube and SS, as I like the sag of tube and the tightness of SS depending on what style I feel like playing.

 

[Iron Dog]

Thanks guys for all the advice, I think I got it sorted and am more enlightened for it

 

[ibenhad]

Get tube rectified and then buy a SS rectifier - https://tubedepot.com/products/solid-state-rectifier and you can have the best of both worlds. If you feel like have some sag put the tube in, wanna tighten it up put the SS rec in. I do this with my Roccaforte. Nice to have the option.

 

[guitarman967]

Late to the party here but a SS rectifier has nothing to do with an amplifier being all tube or not.
90% of all amps manufactured since the late 60's have had diodes to rectify. Every classic Marshall tone youve ever heard. A tube recifier is the exception to the norm at this point, nothing more than a novelty.

 

[rgorke]

Late to the party here but a SS rectifier has nothing to do with an amplifier being all tube or not.
90% of all amps manufactured since the late 60's have had diodes to rectify. Every classic Marshall tone youve ever heard. A tube recifier is the exception to the norm at this point, nothing more than a novelty.

Nearly all Marshall amps since '68 are SS rectified. And what others have said pre and power tubes = tube amp, IMO and many others.

 

[TrueTone500]

Actually, a rectifier tube uses 2 x diodes for full wave rectification. In the case of the 5U4 tube, the heater and plates constitute 2 x diodes. As far as tube vs SS... You will notice a 'softened' string response, and an increase in 'fatness' (due to a slump in plate voltage) as you place more demand (increasing volume) on the power supply. Theoretically, a GZ34 should react closer to that of a solid-state circuit due to its cathode design.

*Don't place a 5U4 tube in a amp that is designed to run a GZ34, as the current draw may be too much for the transformer.

 

[jiveturkey]

I use tube rectification on my Tremoverb. It definitely has a looseness compared to when I use solid state. FWIW, as a side note, an El Diablo is a dangerous purchase to make as you will end paying someone to take it off your hands. One of the most reviled amps ever.

 

[FourT6and2]

Y'all are over thinking this shit. A rectifier is merely for the power supply. "All tube" usually refers to the preamp and power amp as in no transistors or diode clipping circuits, nothing digital, etc. But as someone else already said, most amps these days have solid state rectification. Tube rectifiers are the odd-man-out.

Personally, I prefer solid state power rectification. Faster response, less sag. One less tube to worry about.

 

[guitarman967]

Late to the party here but a SS rectifier has nothing to do with an amplifier being all tube or not.
90% of all amps manufactured since the late 60's have had diodes to rectify. Every classic Marshall tone youve ever heard. A tube recifier is the exception to the norm at this point, nothing more than a novelty.

Nearly all Marshall amps since '68 are SS rectified. And what others have said pre and power tubes = tube amp, IMO and many others.

Many feel that the first great fabled guitar tone was EVH's Plexi marshall on VH-1. That head did not use a tube rectifier. The immediate punch and attack from the SS diodes were a part of that tone in contrast to the slower rising attack of the tube rectifiers of the past.
I feel that if the inefficient sag of tube rectifers added something of value to amplification, then they would still be used more prominently. Ask most builders why they dont use them.
I dont think it was purely a $ issue although Im sure it did factor into the tube rectifiers demise in guitar amplification.

 

[TrueTone500]

Don't forget about filtering. Increasing and decreasing the filtering plays a major role in feel and response. (value and size)

I haven't read much about differences in actual filter can size, but I recently compared 1/2 size (F&T and Mundorf) 50uf/50uf 500VDC to full size cans in my RK100. Although the 1/2 size cans are rated the same as the full size cans, the result was a faster, tighter, more modern sounding response similar to Diezel and VHT. In the end, I returned to the ARS full size cans.

 

[chunktone]

Late to the party here but a SS rectifier has nothing to do with an amplifier being all tube or not.
90% of all amps manufactured since the late 60's have had diodes to rectify. Every classic Marshall tone youve ever heard. A tube recifier is the exception to the norm at this point, nothing more than a novelty.

Nearly all Marshall amps since '68 are SS rectified. And what others have said pre and power tubes = tube amp, IMO and many others.

Ya, I believe most consider an amp all tube, if it has an all tube signal path. The rectifier tube(s) are a function of the power supply, and while they do have some effect on the tone, it's not nearly as much as components that are in the signal path.

 

[Mailman1971]

On my Dual rec I run it in bold setting or the solid state rectifier setting. Just sounds a tad crisper to me.
Tone wise the amps sounds the same but in the spongy setting the sag is definitely noticeable by me.

 

[FourT6and2]

Don't forget about filtering. Increasing and decreasing the filtering plays a major role in feel and response. (value and size)

I haven't read much about differences in actual filter can size, but I recently compared 1/2 size (F&T and Mundorf) 50uf/50uf 500VDC to full size cans in my RK100. Although the 1/2 size cans are rated the same as the full size cans, the result was a faster, tighter, more modern sounding response similar to Diezel and VHT. In the end, I returned to the ARS full size cans.

If the caps were the same value, then the difference was that your old caps were either leaking or had drifted and the new caps were the correct value. The physical size of the cap doesn't matter.

 

[TrueTone500]

Don't forget about filtering. Increasing and decreasing the filtering plays a major role in feel and response. (value and size)

I haven't read much about differences in actual filter can size, but I recently compared 1/2 size (F&T and Mundorf) 50uf/50uf 500VDC to full size cans in my RK100. Although the 1/2 size cans are rated the same as the full size cans, the result was a faster, tighter, more modern sounding response similar to Diezel and VHT. In the end, I returned to the ARS full size cans.

If the caps were the same value, then the difference was that your old caps were either leaking or had drifted and the new caps were the correct value. The physical size of the cap doesn't matter.

The ARS cans are less than 6 months old. I installed the shorter cans as an experiment - not necessity.

1. The original cans were JJ brand which I first replaced with the short F&T capacitors. The result was a tighter, faster response which I did not like. I then installed a tall set of ARS capacitors, and the original (stock) response returned.

2. Before switching over to Takman CF resistors (awesome sounding resistors), I decided to try-out the short Mundorf capacitors. The Mundorf caps are only $25.00 per unit, so why not? The result was the same as the JJ to the short F&T. Metal players would probably prefer the faster/tighter response, but I don't play like that. Both F&T and Mundorf are German made capacitors, so maybe...?