Various Rack Rig Questions

[guitarmike]

I never had luck with v-30's in lower volume situations. I would try some Scumback m75's, I run 4x12 with them at church and I can make anyone in the room pucker up with the tight bass I get with those speakers. ?
Run the 4x12 cab with just 2 speakers, it will sound huge compared to the cab you have.
Friedman gets a pretty killer tone with his PT20, I think with some eq-ing you can get the tone you want as long as you change out the speakers.

 

[jabps]

I sit here and run through all kinds of rack gear with Mark Cameron and I got to say and Mark agrees that first of all get a 4x12 and your power amp is not cutting it either. Change these two things, first the cab to a 4x12 and power amp to a VHT2150, Classic, Strategy 400, Marshall 9200 or EL34 100 I think you will be one step closer to what you want in terms of tone.

Hope this helps.

ETA, weak power amps are exactly that weak. That's why you never see a power amp like you are using a real recording or touring rig. They just don't cut it.

There are alot of great power amps out there that won't break the bank. When I ran the rack thing years ago I went through the Marshall 9200, the VHT 2150 and the Peavey Classic Stereo 120. All were beasts especially the Peavey. That thing sounded fantastic which I preferred barring the weight.

When I downsized I went through several smaller both tube and SS power amps before I settled...the Boogie 50/50 (nice amp) ended up with Boogie 2:90 for awhile - I loved that power amp but I wanted the Depth/Resonance control so I went with the VHT G250...probably overall my favorite power amp. Then again during my quest I had good luck with higher wattage Mosvalve and Rocktron Velocity...neither were tube but they sounded pretty good. Ultimately my two favorite power amps were the Peavey 120 (just a massively heavy amp) and the VHT G250. Cool story, that Peavey 120 came with 8 6L6's...all Sylvania when I bought it. I used to run a Langner pre-amp and also had racked up a Langner modded ADA. I wish I had kept those two pieces.

 

[Detroit1973]

I sit here and run through all kinds of rack gear with Mark Cameron and I got to say and Mark agrees that first of all get a 4x12 and your power amp is not cutting it either. Change these two things, first the cab to a 4x12 and power amp to a VHT2150, Classic, Strategy 400, Marshall 9200 or EL34 100 I think you will be one step closer to what you want in terms of tone.

Hope this helps.

ETA, weak power amps are exactly that weak. That's why you never see a power amp like you are using a real recording or touring rig. They just don't cut it.

There are alot of great power amps out there that won't break the bank. When I ran the rack thing years ago I went through the Marshall 9200, the VHT 2150 and the Peavey Classic Stereo 120. All were beasts especially the Peavey. That thing sounded fantastic which I preferred barring the weight.

When I downsized I went through several smaller both tube and SS power amps before I settled...the Boogie 50/50 (nice amp) ended up with Boogie 2:90 for awhile - I loved that power amp but I wanted the Depth/Resonance control so I went with the VHT G290...probably overall my favorite power amp. Then again during my quest I had good luck with higher wattage Mosvalve and Rocktron Velocity...neither were tube but they sounded pretty good. Ultimately my two favorite power amps were the Peavey 120 (just a massively heavy amp) and the VHT G250. Cool story, that Peavey 120 came with 8 6L6's...all Sylvania when I bought it. I used to run a Langner pre-amp and also had racked up a Langner modded ADA. I wish I had kept those two pieces.

I bet your Rack Rig with the Langner sound massive.

 

[jabps]

I sit here and run through all kinds of rack gear with Mark Cameron and I got to say and Mark agrees that first of all get a 4x12 and your power amp is not cutting it either. Change these two things, first the cab to a 4x12 and power amp to a VHT2150, Classic, Strategy 400, Marshall 9200 or EL34 100 I think you will be one step closer to what you want in terms of tone.

Hope this helps.

ETA, weak power amps are exactly that weak. That's why you never see a power amp like you are using a real recording or touring rig. They just don't cut it.

There are alot of great power amps out there that won't break the bank. When I ran the rack thing years ago I went through the Marshall 9200, the VHT 2150 and the Peavey Classic Stereo 120. All were beasts especially the Peavey. That thing sounded fantastic which I preferred barring the weight.

When I downsized I went through several smaller both tube and SS power amps before I settled...the Boogie 50/50 (nice amp) ended up with Boogie 2:90 for awhile - I loved that power amp but I wanted the Depth/Resonance control so I went with the VHT G290...probably overall my favorite power amp. Then again during my quest I had good luck with higher wattage Mosvalve and Rocktron Velocity...neither were tube but they sounded pretty good. Ultimately my two favorite power amps were the Peavey 120 (just a massively heavy amp) and the VHT G250. Cool story, that Peavey 120 came with 8 6L6's...all Sylvania when I bought it. I used to run a Langner pre-amp and also had racked up a Langner modded ADA. I wish I had kept those two pieces.

I bet your Rack Rig with the Langner sound massive.

I really liked that Peavey Classic 120, sounded huge with the both of those preamps. That power amp and the VHT G250 were my favorites...sorry I had the 250, not the VHT 290, I went back and edited it. When I downsized it was just the Langner and eventually VHT. They were both fantastic rigs but I learned real quick, the more I played out, the smaller it needed to be. I eventually got down to a mono rig...amp, small rack with pedals and GCX switching system with midi board and one cab. Now I'm down to one pedal board, amp and a 2x12 lol. But yeah, the rack days were fun.

I bought the Langner straight from Todd. I had bought one of his pre-amps through a friend who hooked me up with Todd to build another one. I wanted one with more gain. He built me another with an additional gain tap on the back. Sadly I wished I had kept both them and that ADA. Todd was a cool guy. Call him on the phone tell him what you want and get a preamp for $400. Fun times.

 

[ghosty999]

Okay so I'm going to first buy a clean boost, seems the first thing to check. Then move onto changing cab.... and finally the power amp.

Dying to get rid off this mid range woof!

 

[Purpleibby]

Okay so I'm going to first buy a clean boost, seems the first thing to check. Then move onto changing cab.... and finally the power amp.

Dying to get rid off this mid range woof!

Maybe you're like myself and the midrange grind of the V30's doesn't appeal to you. My tone preferences originate from a similar vibe and era, and I agree with guitarmike...get some scumback m75s(have a 4x12 with them, sounds awesome). A boost is always a useful tone shaping tool to have, can't go wrong there unless you just buy a POS. Get a nice boost and a good greenback style cab and you'll be set...then worry about the power amp if need be. I did the rack preamp/power amp rig for decades...went through the 2x MP-1/Mp-2/Triaxis/3+SE(with all John's mods) and finally ended up with a Friedman(after CAA and Splawn stuff). Sure do miss that Suhr clean though, which you gotta have for the stuff I really dig.

BTW, had an El84 power amp for a long time....never could get on with it....that could be(IS) a big part of your problem too. Back then I had the Peavey 50/50....when I upgraded to a 2:90 it was a welcome change...just not controllable in all situations.

 

[jabps]

Okay so I'm going to first buy a clean boost, seems the first thing to check. Then move onto changing cab.... and finally the power amp.

Dying to get rid off this mid range woof!

BTW, had an El84 power amp for a long time....never could get on with it....that could be(IS) a big part of your problem too. Back then I had the Peavey 50/50....when I upgraded to a 2:90 it was a welcome change...just not controllable in all situations.

I'm not a V30 fan either but I don't get the woof factor. For me, that power amp is one of the issue's, it's just not going to punch vs. something with 6L6's or 34's but then again, I ain't spending the money lol. Also, I'd tried to kill two birds with one stone...get a good overdrive boost. That way if you just want the boost you got it and if you want to dial in some gain, got that as well.

 

[Purpleibby]

I'm not a V30 fan either but I don't get the woof factor. For me, that power amp is one of the issue's, it's just not going to punch vs. something with 6L6's or 34's but then again, I ain't spending the money lol. Also, I'd tried to kill two birds with one stone...get a good overdrive boost. That way if you just want the boost you got it and if you want to dial in some gain, got that as well.

The woof is EXACTLY like what I don't like about the V30s...it's the boosted/boxy low mids which is something the V30s have. A greenback type speaker will fix that, and I second the scumback recommendation.

As for the power amp, if you read my post we're on the same page there. I think that's part of the problem, but I don't think that's what is causing what he's calling "woof"....That 20/20 is pretty weak, than even the 50/50 I had. I just don't like El84s. I think that's what's causing the perceived sustain loss as he's describing it. Not enough power, and el84s to boot.

To be honest, rack power amps in my experience never sound as good as the power section of a head(running into the fx return), as long as it's a good one(2:90 came the closest). I went through quite a few in my years. Back when I was tone chasing with the 3+SE getting all the mods, Suhr thought the Mesa 2:90 came closest which was good because that was what I had at the time. Something to consider.

 

[EXPcustom]

Just go to a good 80's or 90's era 4x12 cab with original speakers in v30 or greenbacks. Don't waste your money on a cab and the newer production "gimmicky" speakers. No need to waste your money.

I got a beautiful Marshall 4x12 1960AC with original 25 watt celestions that used the 6402 cone of a '90s G12M Greenback (actually, just a KM 1777, don't get fooled). Kurt Mueller 1777 and I paid less than 500 for that.

 

[ghosty999]

Here is a talk through vid I made recently, you can see the set up and hear the mid range (sorry for peasant audio quality and jarring volume)

I agree about V30s, I think they are better off in a 4x12. At times just having the mid range at 12 already sounds like you're listening through a wall.

Might pick up a Boss EQ, two birds one stone, clean boost and remove some mid range before the pre-amp so the post EQ doesn't need to be on -12 at all times to get anywhere near a flat mid sound.

 

[Purpleibby]

I'm surprised on how good the clean tones are there on the JMP-1. Your clean tones sound great there man. It's pretty common to need a comp for cleans so I wouldn't think of that as a slight to a clean channel. Why do you think that's mediocre, cleans sound great to me!

 

[Metlupass2]

Guys check out the OPs YouTube page. He's got some great videos. My favorite is the Dakota Runaway cover.

 

[Snave]

I'd suggest picking up a power amp that's not 1U and EL84 driven. That will fix a lot of your midrange issues. Beyond that, I'd look at getting a proper tube preamp. JMP1 sounds fine but it's not real tube overdrive. It's more like the Valvestate amps with solely solid state distortion and some tubes added for signal smoothing. That's not to say it sounds bad, but there are better preamps out there that cost around the same.

They're probably not as cheap or easy to find in the UK, but I'd recommend a Peavey Rockmaster preamp. Roughly the same price range (cheaper than JMP1s stateside), actual all tube gain, nice cleans and distortion, and its resonance control could probably even make an EL84 amp sound beefy.

 

[Purpleibby]

I'd suggest picking up a power amp that's not 1U and EL84 driven. That will fix a lot of your midrange issues. Beyond that, I'd look at getting a proper tube preamp. JMP1 sounds fine but it's not real tube overdrive. It's more like the Valvestate amps with solely solid state distortion and some tubes added for signal smoothing. That's not to say it sounds bad, but there are better preamps out there that cost around the same.

They're probably not as cheap or easy to find in the UK, but I'd recommend a Peavey Rockmaster preamp. Roughly the same price range (cheaper than JMP1s stateside), actual all tube gain, nice cleans and distortion, and its resonance control could probably even make an EL84 amp sound beefy.

I actually forgot I used to have a rockmaster(getting old lol), and I agree it was a bitchin' preamp. The only thing that drove me nuts was the pop when switching channels. Again, I wanna stress I really like the cleans in your video ghosty. Makes me wanna pickup one for my rig for that alone(I'm on the clean sound hunt since I sold my amps that had a great clean)....sorry for the OT.

 

[jabps]

I'm not a V30 fan either but I don't get the woof factor. For me, that power amp is one of the issue's, it's just not going to punch vs. something with 6L6's or 34's but then again, I ain't spending the money lol. Also, I'd tried to kill two birds with one stone...get a good overdrive boost. That way if you just want the boost you got it and if you want to dial in some gain, got that as well.

The woof is EXACTLY like what I don't like about the V30s...it's the boosted/boxy low mids which is something the V30s have. A greenback type speaker will fix that, and I second the scumback recommendation.

As for the power amp, if you read my post we're on the same page there. I think that's part of the problem, but I don't think that's what is causing what he's calling "woof"....That 20/20 is pretty weak, than even the 50/50 I had. I just don't like El84s. I think that's what's causing the perceived sustain loss as he's describing it. Not enough power, and el84s to boot.

To be honest, rack power amps in my experience never sound as good as the power section of a head(running into the fx return), as long as it's a good one(2:90 came the closest). I went through quite a few in my years. Back when I was tone chasing with the 3+SE getting all the mods, Suhr thought the Mesa 2:90 came closest which was good because that was what I had at the time. Something to consider.

Yeah I gotcha. Totally agree on the power amps. To keep it small, he should round up the Boogie 50/50, those were smoking little power amps w/ 6L6's. Lord, I went through numerous power amps during my rack days. My final rack gear was the Langner Pre into a VHT 250 power amp. I continually downsized...finally just went back to amps, never looked back. As for V30's, yeah not a fan in fact I have them in my Bogner 2x12. I guess I don't hear the woof lol. I hear alot of what I don't like though...maybe that's the woof. Been meaning to replace them for awhile but then I've toyed with just getting rid of the cab altogether.