VH Isolated Tracks

[Kapo_Polenton]

Not at all.... his 1984 tones are some of his thinnest and buzziest and I love them because I see them as raw. I like those iso tracks, shows how great his dynamics are and it is cool to hear where they punch edits in and out. So no I disagree!

I think with any iso tracks, the guitar parts don't always live up to the whole picture. Many of the tones sound like crap. Listen to Sambora's tone on living on a prayer. Crap. But it works in the song!

 

[Digital Jams]

I think those isolated tracks demonstrates the sum of all parts, when everything is mixed together how does it fit. The beat it solo by itself imo sounds like a mess but in the mix it is awesome.

Why so many clips I hear I know for a fact would be buried in a normal ban context because those tones were dialed in for low volume playing in their house. A plexi by itself can sound nasty in a bad way but you add good solid bass and now it is coming together.


Just my thoughts.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

exactly.. we get so hung up on tone and we forget that the mix is the great equalizer. The bass fills in the low end. What sucks about music today is the way it is produced. They all sound like the same band with the same gear. I like my guitars to cut... in most cases, most of the tones we love will sound thin on their own. The AFD tones sound raspy and thin and yet put Duff's bass back in and Adler's drums and you have what I consider to be a masterpiece.

 

[rupe]

I think those isolated tracks demonstrates the sum of all parts, when everything is mixed together how does it fit. The beat it solo by itself imo sounds like a mess but in the mix it is awesome.

Why so many clips I hear I know for a fact would be buried in a normal ban context because those tones were dialed in for low volume playing in their house. A plexi by itself can sound nasty in a bad way but you add good solid bass and now it is coming together.


Just my thoughts.

My thoughts as well. Isolated, I think Ed's tone was pretty bad, but somehow it all comes together in the mix and works. I remeber seeing a Pink Floyd documentary where they isolated one of Gilmour's iconic solos (can't remember which one) and it sounded like total fuzzy, buzzy garbage. Then they brought in the rest of the tracks and it soared perfectly over the mix.

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

exactly.. we get so hung up on tone and we forget that the mix is the great equalizer. The bass fills in the low end. What sucks about music today is the way it is produced. They all sound like the same band with the same gear. I like my guitars to cut... in most cases, most of the tones we love will sound thin on their own. The AFD tones sound raspy and thin and yet put Duff's bass back in and Adler's drums and you have what I consider to be a masterpiece.

SO CORRECT.. I was listening to this cd sampler yesterday in the car of a lot of young bands, Veil of Maya, After the Burial, so forth..and they rock hard...but almost every track sounds the same and causes ear fatigue. I mix my stuff with dynamics. Try not to master everything so it is all loud. This is another reason I don't buy remastered albums. Cuz all they do is blast everything. The originals are usually best.

That being said....remixed albums could be cool. I think if Whitesnake did a remixed version of their '87 album and turned up Sykes in the mix...it would be kickin!

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

I found this one of Bark at the Moon. Kinda cool hearing what parts he doubled, and which he didn't.

 

[Meathead]

This is another reason I don't buy remastered albums. Cuz all they do is blast everything. The originals are usually best.

+100...I can't stand today's mastering for CD.

Have you heard the DCC Gold VH I disc? I was listening to it the other day and compared it to the remaster...no comparison.
His tone is still pretty hairy but much smoother. Way better than the remasters. They shine the shit out of things like nobody has any high end left in their hearing.

Here's a crappy mp3 but you get the idea...

 

[petethorn]

This is the nature of mixing-
Everything has it's place and isolated, things aren't going to sound as big. It's a sum of the parts thing

I love hearing isolated tracks for the playing- I can finally hear every nuance

 

[Rogue]

I found this one of Bark at the Moon. Kinda cool hearing what parts he doubled, and which he didn't.

Cool.

 

[overthemountain]

+1 to the above, I like hearing the differences between the iso track vs. how it sounds in the mix. As for the VH stuff specifically I don't think a lot of it was that bad- sure more fuzzy/buzzy for the most part and not as huge, but not bad. Playing-wise IMO he still kicks ass, even though you can hear more mistakes, you can also hear many more nuances and little things he throws in which are pretty amazing.

 

[thegame]

I have the original VH1 record from 1978 and it sounds different than the cassette and CD.

Yeah, different as in much better !

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I was also listening to the Bark at the Moon Iso track yesterday... that was pretty awesome to hear exactly what you mentioned, which parts he doubled and which he didn't. I was surprised that he doubled his own fast run at the end of the solo. That was pretty awesome. The John Norum Final Countdown solo is cool too, he doubles the arpeggio parts and you can hear a few of the mistakes or inconsistencies in his picking too. So next time you are all worried about not hitting a down stroke in a solo, forget about it, it will be lost in the mix!

 

[AndyK]

That being said....remixed albums could be cool. I think if Whitesnake did a remixed version of their '87 album and turned up Sykes in the mix...it would be kickin!

Amen!!

 

[rokker]

EVH always said that Ted Templeman made him "sound better" than he really was?
When Ted left the scene I think the recorded version of EVH's tone changed too.

 

[thegame]

When I hear mistakes and inconsistencies on these isolated tracks (from any artist), it does nothing to diminish my enjoyment and appreciation of the music at all. All our heroes are human, of course there's going to be imperfections. If they were recording amp clips instead of looking at the big picture, perhaps the minor mistakes would be more important

 

[metalsoup]

Well, I'm convinced. Tone is neither in the fingers nor the amp--it's in the mix!

 

[petejt]

This is pretty interesting. It really puts "tone-chasing" into context.

I try to create my tones so they'd work in a band context, but the reality is that I'm not currently playing in a band, so I tend to forget that and just get frustrated if my guitar does not sound as full.

And a note about vinyl records- I've read (I think it was from DCC) that they used to slim down the bass frequencies on the mix for the vinyl, otherwise the bass would be too much for the needle and make it shake too much. The resultant audio though would replicate the original mix.

When those vinyl recordings were dubbed straight to cassette or CD, they didn't compensate for the reduced bass, so the audio ended up sounding a bit shallow. That is why the cassettes and CDs would sound different.

 

[petejt]

Well, I'm convinced. Tone is neither in the fingers nor the amp--it's in the mix!

Sig'ed!

 

[AndyK]

Well, I'm convinced. Tone is neither in the fingers nor the amp--it's in the mix!

Good point. I would add that the tone you hear on an album is neither in the fingers nor the amp....etc. Great live tone is just that - great tone.

 

[Greazygeo]

So I downloaded all of the VH isolated tracks way back in 2009 when they were posted in the Metro forum. I never really listened to them... until today. Honestly, a lot of it is a big let down. Eddies tone is raspy and buzzy. Especially the VH1 tone . My favorite tone seems to be Mean Street album isolated clips. Even Eddies playing is very average, but with attitude . I kinda wish I never listened to these clips as it has seemed to ruin what I thought was killer tone.


Does anyone else feel the same way?

Its obvious just listening to the songs how avg the tone and playing is/was. Surprised it took you this long to "hear" it.