VH4 v JJ v Helios v Uberschall

Pearly Gates

Pearly Gates

Member
Thoughts on how these amps differ? VH4 probably has the least in common I imagine?

I have a Mark V and Soldano and I’m looking for something to complement those. What’s the pick of the bunch for an Alice in Chains/Tool kind of sound. JJ and VH4 are obvious contenders and both JC and AJ have used the Uberschall as well. Wondering where the Helios and Helios Eclipse fits in.

I saw a clip comparing the Helios, JJ and Uberschall and the Helios destroyed the other two. Super punchy, thick and raw sound but balanced with aggression. The JJ seemed thin and too polished in comparison but a bit more aggressive and the Uberschall was too extreme and uncontrolled.
 
This would be a lengthy novel to write up...

Let the "Search" function be your friend :yes:

Can. Of. Worms. :LOL: :LOL:

VH4 - 4 channel "unique and distinct" Diezel sound; powerful, thick, 3D, incredible features and layout, but very very unique in its tone (as are all Diezels)
JJ - great Marshall based amp, but slightly darker. Get the JBE/MV installed on the front. Ch.1 amazing clean, Ch.2 Cantrell in a box, Ch.3 diode-clipped.
Helios - hot-rodded Marshall with the unique Bogner chewiness.
Uberschall - Rev.2 is a one trick pony known for its crushing Ch.2 gain and power; Ch.1 is clean...stomp box friendly. TwinJet? Killer high gain amp.

But from here on in, it's up to you man... :D
 
PS - hard to find really good clips on the matter. The JJ is by NO means "too polished", and if it is, it's because the dork doing the demo isn't cranking it loud enough. VH4 is amazing, but comes with an amazing price-tag. I found the JJ to be able to get me into AJ's territory more than the VH4 could get me into Cantrell's territory. So if it were one amp and dollars were a concern - the JJ out of the lot. If money was no concern - the VH4 + Helios. Those two in stereo are fucking righteous.
 
I was actually thinking before you posted that the VH4 + Helios would be amazing in stereo. But that’s that’s just a slightly different version of AJ’s rig. Which amp has the most ‘balls’.. Helios?
 
Honestly, I've always found the VH4 to sound amazing but to be a little on the 'stiff(?)' side of things. To me it is just not that 'forgiving', where the Friedman is really nice and easy to play. I had a twin jet and my buddy had a Rev Blue, I preferred the Butterslax to both. And knowing that the JJ is the predecessor I think I would prefer it to them as well. Helios I couldn't tell you but I am still interested in this Eclipse model, if only Bogners were easier to try in Canada. I can't imagine you'd be unhappy going in any of these directions, but my vote would be for the JJ, Friedman nails that thick Marshall tone. I also saw that video you are talking about and it surprised me how thin it sounded, maybe their settings weren't the best?
 
Diezel123":350wbj2a said:
I was actually thinking before you posted that the VH4 + Helios would be amazing in stereo. But that’s that’s just a slightly different version of AJ’s rig. Which amp has the most ‘balls’.. Helios?
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VH4 has the most variety of "balls" to choose from, but you have to have an affinity for "German balls". German balls are an acquired, um, taste, in the context of Diezel.

But the one hit wonder out of the lot mentioned? With money in mind?

JJ100 w/ added JBE MV hands down.
 
DeathbyButterslax":3uipbo0h said:
Honestly, I've always found the VH4 to sound amazing but to be a little on the 'stiff(?)' side of things.
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The VH4 is a pretty stiff sounding (feeling, actually) amp, for sure. Hence my love for the Hagen...it does both really well.

As for the VH4 + Helios, yes, that would be a nod to the AJ set-up, but would offer you a tremendous palette to work from "in stereo". You'd have your Marshall, hot-rodded Marshall, the Bogner Chewiness, the funky Bogner mids; all combined with the tight surgical incredibly powerful and DEEP thunder of the VH4. But that ain't a cheap rig by any stretch. I found the Friedman's to be very playable, the JJ being the best out of the bunch for my tastes - but Dave makes great sounding amps. Is diode clipping suitable in a $3400USD amp?? I guess it's the tone you're buying, not the components. To each their own.

[edited for spelling mistake]
 
Haven't played the JJ or Helios, however...

The VH4 and Uberschall are significantly different. VH4 is hi-fi, very tight, and unique. It's a hard tone to capture on tape. Worth the money if you're gigging or cranking up on a regular basis--not so much for bedroom jamming.

Uberschall (I've owned two Rev. 2s) is like a "better" Rectifier. Smoother throughout the upper register, and much stronger fundamental. It's your pretty standard great, modern high gain tone without a ton of uniqueness. It feels excellent (not the tightest amp) and sounds good with lower gain settings like quality high gainers tend to. Adam Jones isn't a great representation of its tone since it was only used in conjunction with 3 other amps (including a Rivera KR7) on 10,000 Days. This amp would be closest to your Soldano, but with a more usable low end. This is all with regards to the older Uberschalls with the jewel light. Newer (Rev Blue) amps have lower plate voltage and a softer tone.
 
I have played an Uber twin jet and a vh4, not for lengthy time periods, but they are EXTREMELY different.
 
I tried out a Helios Eclipse and a Shiva, these were the only ones the local dealer had in stock.

Didn't really like either of them that much... preferred the Shiva of the two but it's not a high gain amp (I knew that already) but had even less gain than I was expecting. Maybe as much as a stock 800 or so. Good rock amp with amazing clean channel but not really what I'm looking for. Always been curious about them as a rock amp but I think I'd prefer a Marshall. Wonder how the 20th Ann is...

As for the Helios Eclipse well it wasn't anything great, I know it doesn't have the best of reputations. Switching between the Eclipse and the Shiva, it sounded like there was something wrong with the Eclipse (there definitely wasn't anything wrong with it), it sounded distant and polished in comparison. The Shiva was much more raw and in your face. The feel was actually great on the Eclipse but the sound was bleh... all low end with no real bite or clarity... very tight though. Also there was way too much noise with this amp, some of the modes were literally unusable, it started squealing like a pig when B2, Eclipse mode etc. were switched in.

Kind of makes me wonder if I would like a Friedman at all after playing the Eclipse.

Maybe an XTC is more my thing. Of course I will have to try out the VH4 as well.
 
I have a SLO and a few Mark amps (IIC, III, V) and a regular BE.
I havent tried a Bogner, but used to have a vh4. Between the BE, SLO and Mark i feel pretty satisfied... The BE is different enough from the others to keep things interesting
 
I loved my VH4, but I rarely ran it dry & pretty much always had ancillary pedals in the mix. On it's own, the VH4 is pretty direct and dry. I can see how someone might be underwhelmed by it on first impressions. I think that's its best characteristic though, in that it's got a tonne of integrity to it & is very versatile. Not to mention it's jaw-droppingly loud.
 
JimmyBlind":1rfrenpy said:
I loved my VH4, but I rarely ran it dry & pretty much always had ancillary pedals in the mix. On it's own, the VH4 is pretty direct and dry. I can see how someone might be underwhelmed by it on first impressions. I think that's its best characteristic though, in that it's got a tonne of integrity to it & is very versatile. Not to mention it's jaw-droppingly loud.
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Lower volumes can invite ancillary stomps and FX.

Cranked up, Ch.2, Ch.3 and Ch.4 come to life with a tonne of shitkicking textures and life and 3D goodness. It's all in the volume, IMHO. Lower volumes one can love the thick, over-saturated gainier feel of the amp; as the MV turns up, it starts getting fuller with lots of push. It is outstandingly loud, but I think part of this "perceived loudness" is the fact it continues to deliver its entire sonic spectrum (from the low lows to the high highs and everything in between) at higher MV settings (where some other amps tend to lose their ground, get flubby, get shaky, etc). It keeps solid - even when the walls start shaking - the amp stays solid.
 
Diezel123":t5t6alna said:
Wonder how the 20th Ann is...
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It can do heavy. It has a lot of options on tap, I think the 88s in it give it this great punchy headroom that's harder knocking than the EL34 standard version. I can get mine super hot, cutting, and ripping. It's a surprisingly angry amp when dialled in for such.

Its cleans are beautiful.
 
Here's my 2 cents;

Friedman JJ: I know people rant and rave about this amp, but it took me a long time and a retube to really get to liking mine. With new KT77's and a "Depth" mod, it finally had the punch and fullness I wanted it to have. It is definitely a polished amp, and pretty compressed with the JJ switch engaged. I typically run it with a boost out front on the BE channel without the JB switch engaged, as it sounds a little more raw this way. It's an easy to play amp. Not as easy as a 5150, but definitely easier than say a VHT or Splawn.

Bogner Eclipse Helios: Raw, plexi style tones with a high gain twist. I just got mine a couple days ago and have not spent much time with it. The few videos on youtube show it's general character. Again, I boost all my amps as I like to play tight crossover thrash, and this amp on 80's mode on both channel 2 and 3 produces some great tones. Channel 2 80's is damn tight and punchy, but the amp overall has sort of a nasal quality to the voicing and doesn't seem as clear as the Friedaman, or a lot of my other upper end amps. I haven't rolled tubes or experimented much, so take this with a grain of salt

Bogner Uberschall: I borrowed my buddies for a couple weeks, as I was looking at buying it from him. Overall, very cool amp. I didn't find it as wild or uncontrolled as I thought it'd be. Definitely high gain, but doesn't touch Peavey levels of saturation. Certainly can be dialed in scooped, but I had no problem getting a nice and cutting mid presence out of it once I learned how to use the presence mid and high EQ's in conjunction. My main and only beef with the amp, and this is what led me to not buying it, is that the low end had this roundness to it that just didn't sit right with me. It wasn't loose, but at the same time had no immediacy to it. Like it decayed slowly or something. I've talked to others who knew what I meant, so it wasn't just my ears. Overall, dug the tone though.

I can't comment on the VH4. Somehow, I've never been in the same room as one, and that makes me sad, but My Herbert MKI is my #1 amp and I love it to pieces.
 
You may want to look into Splawn actually. KT88 Nitro are mean AF. I like the Promod too. (I own both). They can be found for a grand if you look hard. But I will say they are dry and unforgiving.
 
Unimpressed with the BE100... aggressive tone, tight like the Helios Eclipse but it's just all low end with not a lot of real bite. Better than the Helios Eclipse but it sounds almost plastic. The JJ well... I don't really have much to say about it.. I'll just leave it at that.

The VH4 on the otherhand... WOW!!! Possibly the single best amp I have ever played. The two Friedmans are like toys compared to this monster. It has a similar tight low end, but the low end has more of a grind and aggressive voicing and the mids/treble are more natural and raw. It just sounds fucking huge and monstrous. Had to stop myself from walking out of the shop with it... but I'm really considering buy it now. Or a VH2.

That just leaves me with the Uberschall.... but I can't try it out locally. Any more thoughts on it? Compared to the VH4 and Avenger I already have. Did think about the XTC but don't really feel interested in it, for that kind of sound I would prefer my Soldano or an actual Marshall.
 
Agreed on the Friedmans. They're smooth and tight but have no real character in the room.

The Uberschall is closer to your Avenger, but less fuzzy in the gain structure. I've owned both and prefer the Uber.
 
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