VHT PBUL Or Engl E570/VHTPower Amp?

[Intimidator333]

Ok looking for reccomendations here folks. I've been through quite a few heads this past year looking for the right one. I owned an Engl Savage 120 for 9 years. Absolutely loved everything about it except for the lack of low end/low mid heft. Was just too thin sounding. The gain on it was perfect. So perfect it ruined me for almost any other amp. I have this year fallen in love with a friend's VHT Pittbull UL. It sounds so awesome. So pissed off, meaty, and almost everything I want. I don't even mind how dry it is. I actually like that aspect of it. It just doesn't have that aggressive edge to the gain the Engl has though. So I just want some opinions. Go for the VHT PBUL? Or try the best of both worlds and get the Engl E570 preamp and match it with say a VHT 2150 or other model power amp or even Mesa power amp. Get the Engl gain but the VHT or Mesa power. Would also entertain suggestions for other Engl models that would have more meat in the lows and mids.
Examples of tones I'm after would be early Fear Factory, Strapping Young Lad/Devin Townsend type tones.
Thanks guys.

 

[rottingcorpse]

I have both an engl and a UL. IMO,you have got to own a UL to really "get it" and decide if it's for you. It will never have the saturated gain you love from the engl line(I have had a bunch of them and kept the extreme aggression for that reason),but if you are able to dig on the ULs dryness you will love how it responds to your playing.

But...your idea of powering an engl preamp with the VHT power section might be better for your ideal tone since you love the ENGLs gain and basic tone.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

UL: dry, tight, more of a thudding high gain sound (less overall preamp gain)
SE: saturated, juicy, more high end cutting high gain (way more overall preamp gain)

Really at different ends of the spectrum.

 

[Intimidator333]

As for the post above, I am familiar with both units and both ends of the spectrum. What I am asking is, is it possible for me to get the best of both worlds with the engl pre/VHT power set up? I guess another question would be if I ran the pre/power set up would the Engl pre still produce too thin of a sound as opposed to just getting the PBUL?

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

As for the post above, I am familiar with both units and both ends of the spectrum. What I am asking is, is it possible for me to get the best of both worlds with the engl pre/VHT power set up? I guess another question would be if I ran the pre/power set up would the Engl pre still produce too thin of a sound as opposed to just getting the PBUL?

Eh?

The Engl E570 is anything but thin. I've owned 3 of The SE670 heads and I've played the preamp several times... one of the last things I used to describe the tone would be thin. It's got a ton of shaping buttons, and the mega low punch switch adds way more bass and low end (I never use it much) if you need it. It easily hangs with a Diezel Herbert which is about as bass heavy of a guitar amp ever made.

The UL has much less low end and gain on tap. It's more of a refined, dry-hollow mid Marshall tone. Not really modern high-gain by today's amps.

LSS: The E570 + VHT 2150 will sound great.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

As far as other Engl suggestions, I will tell you that the Fireball 100 has the lows your after, but the mids are in the low mids (Not sure if that's your thing). I get mine where I want it in the mid/mids/upper mids with an eq in the loop boosting those frequencies, a TS clean boosting the front end, and an upper mids prominent pickup (In my particular case: Painkiller and Rebel Yell). The FB100 has WAY more punch than the Savage 120 and its way louder IMO. Its a fucking BEAST!

I hear ya on the Savage 120 regarding low end thump. I recently picked one up, 2 months ago, and absolutely fucking love the gain structure and upper mids crunch. I beef up the lows and low mids with an eq in the loop and that gets me some pretty good low end thump/punch. I'm also gonna try a Miracle Man or a C-pig to add the missing low mids/bass and see where that takes the Savage. The Savage is one SICK amp!

 

[Intimidator333]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions so far guys. I've heard a lot of good stuff about the Fireball 100 and being more low mid focused which is what I think I want. Just overall louder like you described MetalHeadMike is something I'm looking for also. Really had to fight with the Savage to get it to be heard in a live band mix. I used a lot of mids too. If I could have the Engl type gain but bigger, fuller, and louder than the Savage.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

The Fireball 100 just has more girth than the Savage; its more of a 3D sound to my ears that just fills the room. The mid boost button gets you some hyper aggressive mids with tons of growl. Some say its a scooped sounding amp, and I agree if you set up the eq that way, but like I said, with a properly eq'd set up via a TS type pedal clean boosting it up front for the tightening-up/attack aspect and the mid hump factor, mid boost engaged, and an eq in the loop, the mid spectrum fills out nicely. When I play that amp with my Painkiller loaded axe or the Rebel Yell loaded guitar (Which are both upper mid focused pups) the Fireball will just fucking grind while doing so with DEEP but TIGHT low end.

Do you play your Savage with an eq in the loop?

 

[godgrinder]

Would also entertain suggestions for other Engl models that would have more meat in the lows and mids.

E651 Artist Edition, E675 Retro Tube. These are rawer sounding that the more popular models like Savage/Powerball/Fireball.

I wouldn't call the Savage "thin" but I think I know what you meant. You'd likely to encounter similar issues on a Powerball or Fireball too. That was more about their distortion characteristics than the frequency response.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

^^^
Completely and respectfully disagree with the above regarding the Fireball, as long as were talking about the FB100. Its one of the thickest amps out there.

 

[indespise]

I'll back up the statement on the FB100 being thick as hell. Very thick, but still tight and super punchy, not muddy like some other beefy sounding high gain amps can get. I plug straight into mine, no boost or EQ, and I love the tone. Haven't played on an SE or the 570 preamp, but every band I've seen use them live has had a killer tone. Your idea of using the 570 with a different power amp sounds fine, I just don't know how much you would be gaining versus actually buying a different Engl head (unless you're really into the rack idea). Personally, I'm completely uninterested in the versatility a multi channel amp provides, so anything with more channels than the Fireball would be a waste to me, especially when you're paying a lot more for it. Hell, I'd be perfectly happy with a single channel Fireball for that matter- just give me that crushing high gain tone and I'm happy.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Ok looking for reccomendations here folks. I've been through quite a few heads this past year looking for the right one. I owned an Engl Savage 120 for 9 years. Absolutely loved everything about it except for the lack of low end/low mid heft. Was just too thin sounding. The gain on it was perfect. So perfect it ruined me for almost any other amp. I have this year fallen in love with a friend's VHT Pittbull UL. It sounds so awesome. So pissed off, meaty, and almost everything I want. I don't even mind how dry it is. I actually like that aspect of it. It just doesn't have that aggressive edge to the gain the Engl has though. So I just want some opinions. Go for the VHT PBUL? Or try the best of both worlds and get the Engl E570 preamp and match it with say a VHT 2150 or other model power amp or even Mesa power amp. Get the Engl gain but the VHT or Mesa power. Would also entertain suggestions for other Engl models that would have more meat in the lows and mids.
Examples of tones I'm after would be early Fear Factory, Strapping Young Lad/Devin Townsend type tones.
Thanks guys.

was thinking about this aspect of ENGL recently. they seem VERY thin when alone but the low filtering is intended for the amps main purpose, the mix of instruments where it shines. they are amps made to sound better with other musicians than alone.

have you ever played a preamp/rack setup? if not i think you may be disappointed. in a traditional amp the preamp voltages sag in when the power amp demands high power. the feel of an all in one amp is much different than a rack combo barring modelers that replicate this sag.

you said yourself the VHT doesnt have the edge you like. so dont go that route unless you have steven fryette mod it to your liking. at that point you could easily have the ENGL modded for bottom end. a couple component swaps and a custom output transformer can do that.

no 5150 variants interest you? they would do those sounds easily with plenty of bottom.

i think uberschalls could suit you also.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions so far guys. I've heard a lot of good stuff about the Fireball 100 and being more low mid focused which is what I think I want. Just overall louder like you described MetalHeadMike is something I'm looking for also. Really had to fight with the Savage to get it to be heard in a live band mix. I used a lot of mids too. If I could have the Engl type gain but bigger, fuller, and louder than the Savage.

Definitely look at the SE670 head or preamp. I like the head better as the functions of both preamp & power amp in one box work better together sound more seemeless. The SE is also the loudest and heaviest amp Engl makes. It's more evil sounding than the FB100 and you can dial in more low end and bass than the FB100. I've owned them both side to side. I've also owned a few Savage 120s and the tone is more upper mid focused with more edge and bite to it. The Savage is a 60W total output amp... not 120W as it's advertised. It only has 2 6550s in the power section, and the older pre-2011 models had a smaller output transformer that further limited the volume... so that accounts for the lack of volume and power.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Ok looking for reccomendations here folks. I've been through quite a few heads this past year looking for the right one. I owned an Engl Savage 120 for 9 years. Absolutely loved everything about it except for the lack of low end/low mid heft. Was just too thin sounding. The gain on it was perfect. So perfect it ruined me for almost any other amp. I have this year fallen in love with a friend's VHT Pittbull UL. It sounds so awesome. So pissed off, meaty, and almost everything I want. I don't even mind how dry it is. I actually like that aspect of it. It just doesn't have that aggressive edge to the gain the Engl has though. So I just want some opinions. Go for the VHT PBUL? Or try the best of both worlds and get the Engl E570 preamp and match it with say a VHT 2150 or other model power amp or even Mesa power amp. Get the Engl gain but the VHT or Mesa power. Would also entertain suggestions for other Engl models that would have more meat in the lows and mids.
Examples of tones I'm after would be early Fear Factory, Strapping Young Lad/Devin Townsend type tones.
Thanks guys.

was thinking about this aspect of ENGL recently. they seem VERY thin when alone but the low filtering is intended for the amps main purpose, the mix of instruments where it shines. they are amps made to sound better with other musicians than alone.

have you ever played a preamp/rack setup? if not i think you may be disappointed. in a traditional amp the preamp voltages sag in when the power amp demands high power. the feel of an all in one amp is much different than a rack combo barring modelers that replicate this sag.

you said yourself the VHT doesnt have the edge you like. so dont go that route unless you have steven fryette mod it to your liking. at that point you could easily have the ENGL modded for bottom end. a couple component swaps and a custom output transformer can do that.

no 5150 variants interest you? they would do those sounds easily with plenty of bottom.

i think uberschalls could suit you also.

I agree with you on the Uber recommendation. But the Engl SE is anything but thin. It's very different and far superior to their other amp offerings.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Ok looking for reccomendations here folks. I've been through quite a few heads this past year looking for the right one. I owned an Engl Savage 120 for 9 years. Absolutely loved everything about it except for the lack of low end/low mid heft. Was just too thin sounding. The gain on it was perfect. So perfect it ruined me for almost any other amp. I have this year fallen in love with a friend's VHT Pittbull UL. It sounds so awesome. So pissed off, meaty, and almost everything I want. I don't even mind how dry it is. I actually like that aspect of it. It just doesn't have that aggressive edge to the gain the Engl has though. So I just want some opinions. Go for the VHT PBUL? Or try the best of both worlds and get the Engl E570 preamp and match it with say a VHT 2150 or other model power amp or even Mesa power amp. Get the Engl gain but the VHT or Mesa power. Would also entertain suggestions for other Engl models that would have more meat in the lows and mids.
Examples of tones I'm after would be early Fear Factory, Strapping Young Lad/Devin Townsend type tones.
Thanks guys.

was thinking about this aspect of ENGL recently. they seem VERY thin when alone but the low filtering is intended for the amps main purpose, the mix of instruments where it shines. they are amps made to sound better with other musicians than alone.

have you ever played a preamp/rack setup? if not i think you may be disappointed. in a traditional amp the preamp voltages sag in when the power amp demands high power. the feel of an all in one amp is much different than a rack combo barring modelers that replicate this sag.

you said yourself the VHT doesnt have the edge you like. so dont go that route unless you have steven fryette mod it to your liking. at that point you could easily have the ENGL modded for bottom end. a couple component swaps and a custom output transformer can do that.

no 5150 variants interest you? they would do those sounds easily with plenty of bottom.

i think uberschalls could suit you also.

I agree with you on the Uber recommendation. But the Engl SE is anything but thin. It's very different and far superior to their other amp offerings.

Ahh ok, ive never heard the SE. The blackmore i owned and others that I have played didnt have much going on below 120HZ.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

^^^
Yep. I owned the Blackmore too and it is a bit lean in the lowend like the Savage 120. The Savage 120 I have now is post 2011 so it has the upgraded transformer and while I have not done a direct comparison to a pre 2011 Savage, I can compare it to my FB100 and say that it has less lowend. It still has plenty of balls down lower just not in those sub-bass frequencies. I will say that my Savage is WAY tighter than the FB100 and I mean WAY tighter. Its also way faster in response or tracking however you want to look at it.

I hate when Wizard talks about the SE because it just flares up the GAS again

 

[rottingcorpse]

ISP makes a small guitar sub (2x10 400 watt). I wish more of you guys could try them out. I have one, along with two of the 15" 600 watt vectors. Not one of my amps sound thin or lack bottom end. I know it's hard to justify the price for just a simple powered speaker box, but if you are spending big bux for your amps and cabs it seems like a no brainier to me.

 

[indespise]

A powered sub sounds interesting, sure would have been nice while gigging without a bass player. Peavey just recently released one of those as well, might have to check it out.

 

[shred-o-holic]

ISP makes a small guitar sub (2x10 400 watt). I wish more of you guys could try them out. I have one, along with two of the 15" 600 watt vectors. Not one of my amps sound thin or lack bottom end. I know it's hard to justify the price for just a simple powered speaker box, but if you are spending big bux for your amps and cabs it seems like a no brainier to me.

I have one of those as well (the 300 watter vector). They are great.....they really clean up the overall headroom of your sound and add definition and punch. It's like adding 3D to your sound.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

ISP makes a small guitar sub (2x10 400 watt). I wish more of you guys could try them out. I have one, along with two of the 15" 600 watt vectors. Not one of my amps sound thin or lack bottom end. I know it's hard to justify the price for just a simple powered speaker box, but if you are spending big bux for your amps and cabs it seems like a no brainier to me.

This interests me a great deal

Research begins now!