W/D/W Rig with a Mixer

[PeteLaramee]

I've always wanted to try this, but I'm just too impatient and probably too stupid to pull this off.

I do have a question for you though Steve. When you say "Henning Bottle Rocket amp --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer (effects connected to the MarkL as per above) --> Matrix GT 800FX power amp --> Left and Right Henning 4 x 12 cabs w/30th Anniversary G12H30s" Are you saying after the Bottle Rocket's power section? Or are you saying you're bypassing its power section and going out of the "send" in its loop?

 

[Anonymous]

I've always wanted to try this, but I'm just too impatient and probably too stupid to pull this off.

I do have a question for you though Steve. When you say "Henning Bottle Rocket amp --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer (effects connected to the MarkL as per above) --> Matrix GT 800FX power amp --> Left and Right Henning 4 x 12 cabs w/30th Anniversary G12H30s" Are you saying after the Bottle Rocket's power section? Or are you saying you're bypassing its power section and going out of the "send" in its loop?

I'm using a Suhr Iso line out box that is connected to one of the Bottle Rocket's speaker outs. It converts the speaker signal to line level. So, to directly answer your question, the connection to the MarkL unit is after the Bottle Rocket power section, not bypassing it. It is a relatively simple circuit to turn a post power section speaker out into an adjustable line level signal with a few bucks worth of parts, but the Suhr box has isolation and a few other cool things...

Steve

 

[PeteLaramee]

I've always wanted to try this, but I'm just too impatient and probably too stupid to pull this off.

I do have a question for you though Steve. When you say "Henning Bottle Rocket amp --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer (effects connected to the MarkL as per above) --> Matrix GT 800FX power amp --> Left and Right Henning 4 x 12 cabs w/30th Anniversary G12H30s" Are you saying after the Bottle Rocket's power section? Or are you saying you're bypassing its power section and going out of the "send" in its loop?

I'm using a Suhr Iso line out box that is connected to one of the Bottle Rocket's speaker outs. It converts the speaker signal to line level. So, to directly answer your question, the connection to the MarkL unit is after the Bottle Rocket power section, not bypassing it. It is a relatively simple circuit to turn a post power section speaker out into an adjustable line level signal with a few bucks worth of parts, but the Suhr box has isolation and a few other cool things...

Steve

Thanks Steve. That's what scares me - I'm always afraid of getting the load wrong coming out of the power section. I tried going stereo back in 1988 and blew my marshall. I think i mentioned before how stupid i am. I'm going to keep looking into this though.

 

[Anonymous]

I've always wanted to try this, but I'm just too impatient and probably too stupid to pull this off.

I do have a question for you though Steve. When you say "Henning Bottle Rocket amp --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer (effects connected to the MarkL as per above) --> Matrix GT 800FX power amp --> Left and Right Henning 4 x 12 cabs w/30th Anniversary G12H30s" Are you saying after the Bottle Rocket's power section? Or are you saying you're bypassing its power section and going out of the "send" in its loop?

I'm using a Suhr Iso line out box that is connected to one of the Bottle Rocket's speaker outs. It converts the speaker signal to line level. So, to directly answer your question, the connection to the MarkL unit is after the Bottle Rocket power section, not bypassing it. It is a relatively simple circuit to turn a post power section speaker out into an adjustable line level signal with a few bucks worth of parts, but the Suhr box has isolation and a few other cool things...

Steve

Thanks Steve. That's what scares me - I'm always afraid of getting the load wrong coming out of the power section. I tried going stereo back in 1988 and blew my marshall. I think i mentioned before how stupid i am. I'm going to keep looking into this though.

If you give me the list of your equipment I can draw up how you have to hook it up to make this work. If you just run a Suhr line out from one of you speaker outs, you would be completely safe...

Steve

 

[psychodave]

I was shocked when you said you didn't use a mixer. I use an RJM mini-mixer with great results. I also use a Suhr mini-mix in the loop of amps not going through the W/D/W rig (it works great with the CCV's insert loop). I also use different power amps for different sounds. I have two HH V800's (Obviously one is of the best) as well a two Mesa Boogie Strategy 400's with added depth mods. Then I run into four 4x12's... Two center cabs are dry, two outside are both wet and dry.

 

[PeteLaramee]

I've always wanted to try this, but I'm just too impatient and probably too stupid to pull this off.

I do have a question for you though Steve. When you say "Henning Bottle Rocket amp --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer (effects connected to the MarkL as per above) --> Matrix GT 800FX power amp --> Left and Right Henning 4 x 12 cabs w/30th Anniversary G12H30s" Are you saying after the Bottle Rocket's power section? Or are you saying you're bypassing its power section and going out of the "send" in its loop?

I'm using a Suhr Iso line out box that is connected to one of the Bottle Rocket's speaker outs. It converts the speaker signal to line level. So, to directly answer your question, the connection to the MarkL unit is after the Bottle Rocket power section, not bypassing it. It is a relatively simple circuit to turn a post power section speaker out into an adjustable line level signal with a few bucks worth of parts, but the Suhr box has isolation and a few other cool things...

Steve

Thanks Steve. That's what scares me - I'm always afraid of getting the load wrong coming out of the power section. I tried going stereo back in 1988 and blew my marshall. I think i mentioned before how stupid i am. I'm going to keep looking into this though.

If you give me the list of your equipment I can draw up how you have to hook it up to make this work. If you just run a Suhr line out from one of you speaker outs, you would be completely safe...

Steve

Well that's mighty nice of you, sir. Right now my rig is pretty simple. I already know I'll have to buy a power amp and a Suhr line out...

Guitar --> Voodoo/DSL --> TC Electronic G System (w/Tube Screamer, SD-1, and Phase 90 in the loops) --> Several 4x12s and 2x12s.

For the record - I'm not sure if I caused that tranny to blow (insert joke here)...if I remember correctly the things involved were my 2210, a tube screamer, a y cable, two Quadrverbs, two cabs, and a bottle of gin.

 

[dfrattaroli]

I need to do basic research and learn what a mixer, in general, does in this application and how it would be connected. I looked at the MLC manual and it's sample connection but I'm still a little fuzzy. Would there be a similar need for a mixer if you just a had a stereo rig?

Dave

 

[AmpliFIRE]

OMG...I need to take 3 advil after all of that reading

 

[dfrattaroli]

I had a simple w/d/w once with a Mark IV, G Major, Carvin DCM150 and Port City 2x12 and two Port City 1x12 wet cabs. It was really nice. Now I'm torn between setting up one w/d/w rig or having 2 mono rigs. When I want my stereo effects fix, I just fire up my Kemper through my JBL monitors. Not the same but still very satisfying. But wdw has me intrigued. Again.

 

[tubortski]

I tried searching for other W/D/W threads and hard to sift through them. If anybody has them (the ones with the most accurate info) handy, please post. Thanks!

Need to experience this kind of set-up. Don't want to miss anything. I imagine standing in front of this rig and thinking it's the best sound to have...

Cool post, Steve. Carry on

 

[Anonymous]

What kind of mixer would suffice if I only had a timeliness and mobile as far as effects are concerned?

It would depend on whether you wanted to have your Mobius effects in the repeats of your delay or not. With the MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer, you have two levels of parallel effects that can be run into each other, meaning you could run your Mobius in Mix 1 and your Timeline in Mix 2, which would run your Mobius effects into your TimeLine (all mixed with pristine dry sound, of course). This would mean all repeats of your delay would have your Mobius effects. If you have multiple effects units and want to run them all parallel with the dry sound through your mixer, you also need a loop switcher, or if you get the MarkL unit, it includes the loop switcher. I explained why in a post above...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I was shocked when you said you didn't use a mixer. I use an RJM mini-mixer with great results. I also use a Suhr mini-mix in the loop of amps not going through the W/D/W rig (it works great with the CCV's insert loop). I also use different power amps for different sounds. I have two HH V800's (Obviously one is of the best) as well a two Mesa Boogie Strategy 400's with added depth mods. Then I run into four 4x12's... Two center cabs are dry, two outside are both wet and dry.

Well, I'm a believer now!

Your variety of rigs is just sick, man! Too bad we're on opposite ends of the country - would love to get together and play through both of our various rigs...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I've always wanted to try this, but I'm just too impatient and probably too stupid to pull this off.

I do have a question for you though Steve. When you say "Henning Bottle Rocket amp --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer (effects connected to the MarkL as per above) --> Matrix GT 800FX power amp --> Left and Right Henning 4 x 12 cabs w/30th Anniversary G12H30s" Are you saying after the Bottle Rocket's power section? Or are you saying you're bypassing its power section and going out of the "send" in its loop?

I'm using a Suhr Iso line out box that is connected to one of the Bottle Rocket's speaker outs. It converts the speaker signal to line level. So, to directly answer your question, the connection to the MarkL unit is after the Bottle Rocket power section, not bypassing it. It is a relatively simple circuit to turn a post power section speaker out into an adjustable line level signal with a few bucks worth of parts, but the Suhr box has isolation and a few other cool things...

Steve

Thanks Steve. That's what scares me - I'm always afraid of getting the load wrong coming out of the power section. I tried going stereo back in 1988 and blew my marshall. I think i mentioned before how stupid i am. I'm going to keep looking into this though.

If you give me the list of your equipment I can draw up how you have to hook it up to make this work. If you just run a Suhr line out from one of you speaker outs, you would be completely safe...

Steve

Well that's mighty nice of you, sir. Right now my rig is pretty simple. I already know I'll have to buy a power amp and a Suhr line out...

Guitar --> Voodoo/DSL --> TC Electronic G System (w/Tube Screamer, SD-1, and Phase 90 in the loops) --> Several 4x12s and 2x12s.

For the record - I'm not sure if I caused that tranny to blow (insert joke here)...if I remember correctly the things involved were my 2210, a tube screamer, a y cable, two Quadrverbs, two cabs, and a bottle of gin.

Ok, assuming you want to keep the overdrives and Phase 90 in the G system loops, all you would need to add is a Suhr Iso Line Out, a Stereo Power amp (I like the Matrix GT 800FX - solid state clean power, one rack unit and light), a Y splitter cable, and a simple mixer like the RJM Mini Mixer.

Guitar --> Voodoo/DSL --> Speaker out --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> Center Cab (4x12 or 2x12)
Suhr Iso Line Out --> Y splitter cable side 1 --> RJM Mini Mixer (Input 4 - R/Mono) - This is you Dry signal to the mixer
Y splitter cable side 2 --> TC Electronic G System input --> Stereo Outs of G system --> RJM Mini Mixer (Input 1 - Left and Right)
RJM Mini Mixer L/R Outputs --> Left and Right Inputs of Stereo Power Amp --> Left and Right Power Amp Outputs --> Left and Right Cabs (4x12 or 2x12)

That should be it...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I need to do basic research and learn what a mixer, in general, does in this application and how it would be connected. I looked at the MLC manual and it's sample connection but I'm still a little fuzzy. Would there be a similar need for a mixer if you just a had a stereo rig?

Dave

What a Mixer allows you to do is run your effects units 100% wet and mix in a dry signal directly from the line out from your amp, rather than having it go through D/A and A/D conversion through your effects unit. It is equally applicable to W/D or W/D/W rigs. To me the improvement in tone makes the mixer worth it, but YMMV...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

OMG...I need to take 3 advil after all of that reading

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I tried searching for other W/D/W threads and hard to sift through them. If anybody has them (the ones with the most accurate info) handy, please post. Thanks!

Need to experience this kind of set-up. Don't want to miss anything. I imagine standing in front of this rig and thinking it's the best sound to have...

Cool post, Steve. Carry on

Give it a try, man - you'll never go back...

Steve

 

[dfrattaroli]

I need to do basic research and learn what a mixer, in general, does in this application and how it would be connected. I looked at the MLC manual and it's sample connection but I'm still a little fuzzy. Would there be a similar need for a mixer if you just a had a stereo rig?

Dave

What a Mixer allows you to do is run your effects units 100% wet and mix in a dry signal directly from the line out from your amp, rather than having it go through D/A and A/D conversion through your effects unit. It is equally applicable to W/D or W/D/W rigs. To me the improvement in tone makes the mixer worth it, but YMMV...

Steve

Got it. So you don't want the effect mixing your dry signal in with the wet. A mixer does it better. Thanks Steve.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Another question. So does this mean that even though we call them, "wet dry wet" rigs, we don't really want a totally wet cab? We want a mixer to add some pure dry signal to that?

 

[Anonymous]

Another question. So does this mean that even though we call them, "wet dry wet" rigs, we don't really want a totally wet cab? We want a mixer to add some pure dry signal to that?

Correct. That is the way EVH and many others have done it. Its really W-D/D/W-D...

Steve

 

[PeteLaramee]

I've always wanted to try this, but I'm just too impatient and probably too stupid to pull this off.

I do have a question for you though Steve. When you say "Henning Bottle Rocket amp --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> MarkL Dual Stereo Line Mixer (effects connected to the MarkL as per above) --> Matrix GT 800FX power amp --> Left and Right Henning 4 x 12 cabs w/30th Anniversary G12H30s" Are you saying after the Bottle Rocket's power section? Or are you saying you're bypassing its power section and going out of the "send" in its loop?

I'm using a Suhr Iso line out box that is connected to one of the Bottle Rocket's speaker outs. It converts the speaker signal to line level. So, to directly answer your question, the connection to the MarkL unit is after the Bottle Rocket power section, not bypassing it. It is a relatively simple circuit to turn a post power section speaker out into an adjustable line level signal with a few bucks worth of parts, but the Suhr box has isolation and a few other cool things...

Steve

Thanks Steve. That's what scares me - I'm always afraid of getting the load wrong coming out of the power section. I tried going stereo back in 1988 and blew my marshall. I think i mentioned before how stupid i am. I'm going to keep looking into this though.

If you give me the list of your equipment I can draw up how you have to hook it up to make this work. If you just run a Suhr line out from one of you speaker outs, you would be completely safe...

Steve

Well that's mighty nice of you, sir. Right now my rig is pretty simple. I already know I'll have to buy a power amp and a Suhr line out...

Guitar --> Voodoo/DSL --> TC Electronic G System (w/Tube Screamer, SD-1, and Phase 90 in the loops) --> Several 4x12s and 2x12s.

For the record - I'm not sure if I caused that tranny to blow (insert joke here)...if I remember correctly the things involved were my 2210, a tube screamer, a y cable, two Quadrverbs, two cabs, and a bottle of gin.

Ok, assuming you want to keep the overdrives and Phase 90 in the G system loops, all you would need to add is a Suhr Iso Line Out, a Stereo Power amp (I like the Matrix GT 800FX - solid state clean power, one rack unit and light), a Y splitter cable, and a simple mixer like the RJM Mini Mixer.

Guitar --> Voodoo/DSL --> Speaker out --> Suhr Iso Line Out --> Center Cab (4x12 or 2x12)
Suhr Iso Line Out --> Y splitter cable side 1 --> RJM Mini Mixer (Input 4 - R/Mono) - This is you Dry signal to the mixer
Y splitter cable side 2 --> TC Electronic G System input --> Stereo Outs of G system --> RJM Mini Mixer (Input 1 - Left and Right)
RJM Mini Mixer L/R Outputs --> Left and Right Inputs of Stereo Power Amp --> Left and Right Power Amp Outputs --> Left and Right Cabs (4x12 or 2x12)

That should be it...

Steve

Awesome. I think this is starting to make sense. Although I forgot to mention I go guitar, gsystem, amp, gystem, amp, etc I see what's going on - I just skip the loop section of my amp and put those effects in parallel with the dry after the iso line out (and then mix, etc). Now I just need to worry about the load.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this. I'm starting to get excited.